Well I meant that is kinda of similair to what he used in the OP, haha. With Pegasis CS.

That's kind of what everyone's been getting at and I tested with something that makes sense and that's what we've been discussing.

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

The 10 tests was only a problem against an inconsistent attack type. For the most part, defense types are fairly consistent. And I already told you W145WD is the same height as GB145RSF...

It's totally not. RSF is a tall tip and WD is a short tip. If your RSF is worn so much that it's as short as a WD you're going to need a new one.

First off, let me say this is a cool idea. B is definitely a bit underrated in some aspects.

"Top-tier" doesn't mean "accurate." It means "relevant." The tier of the Beyblade you use in comparison testing like this doesn't matter. You're only allowed to use competitive combinations in custom threads because they are used to gauge the ability of a combination in battle, not the specific, relative properties of a single part.

I get the general idea of this, but no offence, I think the wording could be a bit... better?

I mean, you can't just test something like Dark Gemios W145 CS, say it loses to B and proves the point. I know that's taking it out of context, but it could easily be misinterpreted like that.

Personally, I just felt the wording could be misinterpreted- similar to the example I gave.

I kind of have an idea of the point I want to make about this but I can't really put my thoughts into words very well right now so I'll give it my best shot.

The opponent is like the control custom, and while it shouldn't be Dark Gemios W105CS and lose 20-0 proving the point, it also shouldn't be Blitz Kerbecs CH120RF and win 20-0 proving the point either. It does have to be semi-competent but give B/W145WD enough wins to show a difference. But it does help to have a competitive custom to make it realistic too.

I guess this was a bad attempt at trying to word it better...?

Actually, on Scythe, mine is the exact height. And my RSF is near mint, not worn down at all. I can post pictures later.

It kinda was similair to what Leone19 said in a way, IMO.

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

First off, let me say this is a cool idea. B is definitely a bit underrated in some aspects.

"Top-tier" doesn't mean "accurate." It means "relevant." The tier of the Beyblade you use in comparison testing like this doesn't matter. You're only allowed to use competitive combinations in custom threads because they are used to gauge the ability of a combination in battle, not the specific, relative properties of a single part.

I get the general idea of this, but no offence, I think the wording could be a bit... better?

I mean, you can't just test something like Dark Gemios W145 CS, say it loses to B and proves the point. I know that's taking it out of context, but it could easily be misinterpreted like that.

Personally, I just felt the wording could be misinterpreted- similar to the example I gave.

I kind of have an idea of the point I want to make about this but I can't really put my thoughts into words very well right now so I'll give it my best shot.

The opponent is like the control custom, and while it shouldn't be Dark Gemios W105CS and lose 20-0 proving the point, it also shouldn't be Blitz Kerbecs CH120RF and win 20-0 proving the point either. It does have to be semi-competent but give B/W145WD enough wins to show a difference. But it does help to have a competitive custom to make it realistic too.

I guess this was a bad attempt at trying to word it better...?

No, no- you're rewording helps, honestly. I now have a better idea of what I already interpreted, thank you, haha.

With that being said, I believe it should be tested against competitive customs, as well. I get the idea of having an "in the middle" combination (Pegasus CS), but I only feel it'd be leaning results more towards B than neutral, if that makes any sense. I get that it's trying to prove a point, but at least in addition to those results, it probably should be tested with a more competitive custom, personally.

---

Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

You should disable thoses smilies, it's really awfull haha.
On topic, as Leone19 said, you should test it with a competitive custom. B:D's weakness is attack type opponents, so you should try MF-H Pegasus R145/CH120 RF/R2F, MF-H Omega Pegasus III/Horuseus 85RF/R2F or MF-H Lightning L-Drago CH120/85 R2F/RF

---

You should disable thoses smilies, it's really awfull haha.
On topic, as Leone19 said, you should test it with a competitive custom. B:D's weakness is attack type opponents, so you should try MF-H Pegasus R145/CH120 RF/R2F, MF-H Omega Pegasus III/Horuseus 85RF/R2F or MF-H Lightning L-Drago CH120/85 R2F/RF

All stamina types have a weakness to attack types. When Burn B:D and Burn W145WD both get 0% what does that prove? :P

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

OK, let me try and explain this as best I can...

Top-tier combinations are not needed for testing here because I am comparing results between two customs to determine the difference in performance between two parts.

If B:D is more stable than W145WD, then regardless of what the semi-aggressive control custom actually is, B:D will always have a higher win rate than W145.

I could use a competitive Flash Attack custom, or I could use a stock Ray Gil. Either way, if I test sufficiently, B:D will end up with a lower KO rate than W145WD.

You see what I'm saying? When the same amount of force is applied to both customs, B:D will always come out on top, regardless of where that force comes from.

I used Pegasis because it was able to, very consistently, apply the amount of force that I needed against each custom in order to evaluate the results.

By using MF-H Pegasis W145CS, we are applying the same amount of force to each setup (B:D and W145WD), and comparing results to see which setup handles the force more effectively.

That's the best I can explain it.

Now, if we were testing Burn B:D to determine whether or not it was competitive, we would need to test against top-tier customs, obviously. But we're simply comparing one specific part to another, not testing a whole combination.

Here's a good way to think about it; we aren't testing B:D against Pegasis. We're testing it against W145WD, but to do that, we need to put them up against the same opponent and compare their performances to decide which one works better.

That's all I can say for now. I've got stuff to do.

---

|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Top-tier combinations are not needed for testing here because I am comparing results between two customs to determine the difference in performance between two parts.

Even so, it's not like one opponent will decide the outcome.

If B is more stable than W145WD, then regardless of what the semi-aggressive control custom actually is, B will always have a higher win rate than W145.

Your not determining if B is more stable. You're determining it's recoil control. And you can't make these wild accusations that B is better by your one set of tests...

I used Pegasis because it was able to, very consistently, apply the amount of force that I needed against.

So, tell me, If you had Pegasis SR200CS Vs. Scythe Cancer SR200D, who would win? Obviously Scythe Cancer because Pegasis sucks at that height and it's using CS which isn't much of an attack wheel. Therefore, you cannot gauge the effectiveness by one set of tests that aren't even proving much.

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Top-tier combinations are not needed for testing here because I am comparing results between two customs to determine the difference in performance between two parts.

Even so, it's not like one opponent will decide the outcome.

If B:D is more stable than W145WD, then regardless of what the semi-aggressive control custom actually is, B:D will always have a higher win rate than W145.

Your not determining if B:D is more stable. You're determining it's recoil control. And you can't make these wild accusations that B:D is better by your one set of tests...

I used Pegasis because it was able to, very consistently, apply the amount of force that I needed against.

So, tell me, If you had Pegasis SR200CS Vs. Scythe Cancer SR200D, who would win? Obviously Scythe Cancer because Pegasis sucks at that height and it's using CS which isn't much of an attack wheel. Therefore, you cannot gauge the effectiveness by one set of tests that aren't even proving much.

Want to take your problem with TBD to PMs? Because you're making a pointless argument full of logical fallacies that's detracting from the actual purpose of this thread. In case you haven't noticed, no one's complaining but you.

Anyway, I honestly don't see why people are upset by B:D's lack of defense, considering that, as others already stated, stamina combos aren't usually defensive at all.
For the purposes of this thread, I would be interested to see comparative tests with Earth Cancer B:D vs Libra BSF & Earth Cancer W145 WD vs Libra BSF (or another wheel & tip that have enough power to tap-KO a Limited stamina combo). I'll see if I can do a few if I ever have any free time, but that's doubtful lol

---

Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

There is no reason to say the testing in the OP is useless. It was very carefully planned and executed, and the results occupy a perfect range and are very sufficient to prove my point; when B:D and and other competitive Stamina setups are exposed to identical levels of force, B:D is able to control recoil and avoid KO more effectively than the average Stamina setup (recoil control and stability are the same thing in this case, by the way).

Thus, insufficient recoil handling abilities are illegitimate grounds for withholding B:D from the competitive list.

It's as simple as that. The results are perfectly reliable (I took special steps, like selecting specific control combinations, to ensure it).

---

|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

I have to agree with TBD, B : D is really not flimsy at all, there have been multiple cases where I have kept it in aganist Flash attackers by banking it. If you bank B : D hard enough it really is hard to KO.

---

Not my WBO

Want to take your problem with TBD to PMs? Because you're making a pointless argument full of logical fallacies that's detracting from the actual purpose of this thread. In case you haven't noticed, no one's complaining but you.

Anyway, I honestly don't see why people are upset by B's lack of defense, considering that, as others already stated, stamina combos aren't usually defensive at all.
For the purposes of this thread, I would be interested to see comparative tests with Earth Cancer B vs Libra BSF & Earth Cancer W145 WD vs Libra BSF (or another wheel & tip that have enough power to tap-KO a Limited stamina combo). I'll see if I can do a few if I ever have any free time, but that's doubtful lol

I have no problem with him, I think he's a great member. Complaining? What the heck are you talking about? ... Everyone agrees that Pegasis CS is not a good combination to test against and four other people have said the same thing...

@TBD,
You can't even say that by just your tests alone... OMG...

@SS1

There's no one saying they don't like B just that it hasn't been concluded yet.

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Echizen, whether you intend it or not, your tone really does sound hostile.

Take a look at Wombat's testing. He got very similar results (with competitive Standard Format customs, so if that's what you're looking for, take a look at those). SS1, TSO, and Thunder Dome (all experienced tournament players) have confirmed my experience. So my results are not alone.

Pegasis CS is not a competitive combination. I know that. It isn't supposed to be competitive. It's supposed to be relatively week, so that it doesn't completely bulldoze the Stamina customs. If the win rate of ever Stamina custom were 0-10%, the numbers would be too small to evaluate properly. I weakened the custom purposely to give the Stamina types higher win rates, so that the percentages would be easier to look at.

We aren't testing Burn B:D for the competitive list. That would require testing against competitive customs. This is a scientific experiment. We are using control customs that have been engineered to produce clearly readable data, so that we can take that data and come to a conclusion.

---

|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

I've actually kept it really calm and in almost all of your posts towards mine you have something sarcastic in it.

Standard is much different than Limited... Yeah but you don't realize, that by intentionally making the custom weaker you jepordize(Did I spell that right? lol)the results. Like Pegasis can't be used on SR200 and work effectively.

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Yes, I do realize that Hell isn't legal for Limited, but for this purpose, that's irrelevant. Just wanted to do some matches that directly compared B:D to W145 WD: one of the top stamina track/bottom pairings at the moment. These results didn't surprise me at all, to be honest.

Mint WD, slightly worn BSF and B:D. Earth launched first each time, Hell launched normally
Hell Aquario GB145 BSF vs Earth Cancer W145 WD
Hell Aquario GB145 BSF wins: 4/10 (all KO; 40% win rate)
Earth Cancer W145 WD wins: 6/10 (1 KO; 60% win rate)

Hell Aquario GB145 BSF vs Earth Cancer B:D
Hell Aquario GB145 BSF wins: 2/10 (20% win rate)
Earth Cancer B:D wins: 8/10 (all OS; 80% win rate)

---

Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

Standard is much different than Limited... Yeah but you don't realize, that by intentionally making the custom weaker you jepordize(Did I spell that right? lol)the results. Like Pegasis can't be used on SR200 and work effectively.

Of course Pegasis won't work effectively on the combos he used. That's the point. The goal is to have results that can be compared, not absolute results. TBD isn't saying "B:D is good for Defense because it got 80% against Attack and W145 got only 60%." The Attack type he used is weak and would not be valid for regular testing. But the combo's weakness is intentional for this kind of test; it needs to get mid-range win rates so it can be used to compare two different combos' performance against it. The Attack type's effectiveness is irrelevant; both B:D and WD were subjected to tests against Pegasis ____ CS on a similar-height Track. The difference in results represents the relative difference in how defensive these tips are. If you use the averaged 80%/55% results, in theory B:D is 1.45 times as defensive as WD is. But if B:D or WD is going up against a strong, competitive Attack type, that 1.45x Defense superiority won't matter; B:D might lose 100% of the time, but so will WD. The reason for the tests is to end the misconception that B:D is worse for Defense than WD is; this isn't important against Attack types (where playing Stamina will make you lose pretty much guaranteed) but it is important against less aggressive opponents, like Phantom in Standard or Libra in Limited which have moderate Attack power, but usually aren't used on aggressive setups. If B:D was truly as horrible as people think it is, it would get KOed by accident more frequently than WD would. But the 80%/55% results, which come from testing designed to model this moderate-Attack scenario, indicate that against mildly aggressive opponents, B:D is capable of handling them at least as well as WD.

---

Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

Yes, I'm aware of all that. But I'm saying it's not gonna prove that because it wins against a strange combo like that it will win against everything, right?

---

6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Yes, I'm aware of all that. But I'm saying it's not gonna prove that because it wins against a strange combo like that it will win against everything, right?

...

Of course not. If you think the purpose of this thread is to prove that B:D will win against everything, I think you missed something important.

This goes back to what I was saying earlier; we aren't testing B:D against Pegasis. We're testing it against W145WD.

Oh, and TSO, thanks so much for the testing. The customs you used were well though-out. The results are very valuable.

Cake's explanation is spot-on, 100% accurate. Couldn't have said it better myself.

---

|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

I love B: D. It is by far my favourite Stamina part, and from what I have seen does the best against attack type beys.

---

Spoiler (Click to View)

Just wondering, is the LED sight any good? Like, does it help at all? Because I have a hard time aiming...

Not really. Use it to blind your opponent, like Kei does.

They are, but it was amusing seeing all those kids talk about their fat heads.

Hey all. Just a little mini rant. Hasbro really messed up with certain Beyblades. For example, Hasbro's Fang wheel is terrible, while Tomy's version is freaking awesome. Same with That one bey with the balls in the 4D Fusion Wheel.

I'm just bored of christmas. It's a commercial crazy tradition.

You're saying that now, you might have something different to say tomorrow morning.

I love B: D. It is by far my favourite Stamina part, and from what I have seen does the best against attack type beys.

Of course, although it does comparatively better than W145WD against Attack, any moderately competent Attack user will be able to KO a B:D combo pretty consistently.

Remember, people, these tests are relative. B:D does somewhat better against Attack as compared to something that loses almost all the time against Attack. Against a full-power Attack type the difference in Defense between B:D and W145WD is negligible. Either setup is going to get destroyed.

---

Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

Is this topic about B generally or in a specific format?

B in my opinion and does lose balance after getting hit, but it is still able to OS many top Stamina bottoms. It is particularly good in Zero G, as it is mainly used there. The only thing it loses to is Attack, but this is a common trait in many if not all Stamina types.

I find it as a good replacement for SA165WD, which its self loses balance.