^Thank you!

We can't be sure... we can make guesses based on our observations, but things like this are ultimately indeterminable, and our conclusions are, therefore, far from completely certain.

That was a perfect explanation. Kudos to you my friend.

I was told that anything that was not completely certain was unacceptable, but as I see it, this article requires a bit of guesswork if we want to explain certain things.

How about this for an addition to the draft?

Spoiler (Click to View)

Stone face: Genbull

Weight: 1.2 grams

The sticker on this Stone Face represents a comical illustration of a turtle shell with an eye peering from the hole. Genbull is based on Genbu, or Xuan Wu, the black tortoise with a snake coiling around it in Chinese mythology.

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Chrome Wheel: Genbull

Weight: ??? grams

Sat atop a very circular base is a mostly hexagonal shape. Four straight lines, to on each side, create a design reminescent of the [[Libra DF145BS|Libra Wheel]]. Another mostly straight edge is built at the top of the Genbull Chrome Wheel, where the Crystal Wheel's orb is inserted. At the bottom, however, there is a small turtle head designed but it does not protrude that much from the overall circular shape of the real bottom of this Chrome Wheel.

Having a concentrated center of gravity, overall above-average weight, even weight distribution, and a relatively symmetrical, circular, smooth shape, Genbull has shown serious competitive use in stamina customizations in both the Attack Type Beystadium and the Zero-G Attack Type Stadium when used with the TB and CS Bottoms and the TH170/SR200 tracks (seemingly benefiting from TH170/SR200's optimal center of gravity), and posses considerable defensive potential in mid-height customizations as well.

Genbull's above-average weight renders it superior in the face of other competitive Stamina Metal Wheels such as Duo when used in a Zero-G attack-type stadium, for the sake of resisting Sway Attack types. Chrome Wheel combinations such as Killerken Genbull and Genbull Genbull dominate the Zero-G metagame as Stamina types go due to the reasons stated above.

Genbull's heavy weight, smooth outer edge, and inward focused center of gravity render it an very viable choice for mid-height defensive customizations, (Genbull has considerable recoil from below, and as such would not be an effective selection for E230-based defenders), even out-doing Reviser in some instances.

Genbull has shown to be on par with Duo in Stamina match-ups, even in a BB-10 Attack Beystadium when used with the right Track and Bottom combination, and as such is considered by some to be an extremely competitive choice for stamina due to its impressive defensive properties, weight, and synergy with the TB and CS bottoms, and the TH170 and SR200 tracks.

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When used as the top Chrome Wheel in a Synchrom:

Genbull can provide very impressive Stamina when used as the top Chrome Wheel in a Synchrom, as well as noticeable defensive properties.

It has notable Stamina when paired with the Chrome Wheels Killerken and Reviser, and can also be utilized in many Defense customs with these two to provide a boost in Stamina, and as such is very competitive in terms of Stamina/Defense when used as the top Chrome Wheel in a Synchrom.

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When used as the bottom Chrome Wheel in a Synchrom:

Genbull can provide a minor boost in Spin Velocity on the bottom of a Synchrom, due to its ideal weight distribution and shape, but there is no real competitive use for it. Genbull can perform much, much better when used as the top Chrome Wheel in a Synchrom or when Synchromed with itself.

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When used Synchromed with itself:

Genbull is an very, very successful stamina Chrome Wheel when used in a Synchrom with itself. Genbull Genbull has found many uses in stamina customizations throughout the BB-10 Attack-type Beystadium and Zero-G Attack-type Stadium metagames, and can also be utilized effectively in mid-height defensive customs. This Chrome Wheel can be an extremely effective tool when paired with the right parts, and as such, has been one of the most competitively useful chrome wheels to be released.

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Use in stamina customization:

For the various reasons stated in the above paragraphs, Genbull can be utilized to extreme effect in the following stamina customizations both in the BB-10 Attack Beystadium and the Zero-G Attack type Stadium:

Genbull Genbull SR200TB/CS
Genbull Genbull TH170TB

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Use in defense customization:

For the various reasons stated in the above paragraphs, Genbull can be utilized effectively in the following defense customs:

MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RDF/RB
Reviser Genbull E230CS/RB/RSF/RDF/RS

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Crystal Wheel: Bandid

A clear derivative of a "bandit", Bandid oddly does not have a design reminiscent of those characters. It vaguely illustrates some longer daggers, but it mostly complements Goreim's shape entirely: like the latter, this Crystal Wheel has block shapes with ridges in them. Its original color is green, however Bandid Genbull's release is navy blue.

As all Crystal Wheels, Bandid is heavily outclassed by the whole Synchrom possibility, and even by Metal Wheels from the Maximum Series and the 4D System. The Bandid Crystal Wheel should never be considered for competitive play.

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Track: Free 230

Weight: ??? grams

This Track's gimmick is that it is completely free-spinning. It is implied that it can make the Chrome Wheel it is attached to rotate in the opposite direction to the one it was launched in, simply after a hit with another Beyblade of the same original spin. However, in practice this would both be impossible, and, due to the fact the Beyblade would momentarily be stationary as it changed directions, result in an automatic loss.
F230's core section is larger than regular tracks such as 145 and 230 to accommodate the free-spinning mechanism, while the end of the Track bears a much larger version of the irregular structure used for the base of most Bottoms. This change in size allows a Blader to grip and stabilize part of the Track in order to securely screw a Bottom onto F230's end, which would otherwise be complex because of its free-spinning nature.


The F230 Track, although shown to be outclassed by 230 in terms of conventional stamina customizations, has shown startling potential in the field of spin-equalization when used with the CF bottom.

The free-spinnig shaft of F230 allows the combination using it to continue rotating after it has fallen onto the wide ridge of CF, which keeps the Metal/Chrome Wheel from touching the ground as the upper section of the Beyblade spins, providing a very prominent display of LAD capabilities.

An F230CF setup has proven to be one of, if not the, highest LAD track-bottom setups ever, and as such is extremely useful in spin-equalizing customizations in both BB-10 or Zero-G format.

TAKARA TOMY released this track in two different beyblades, one of which was Bandid Genbull. The second version of the track was released with Thief Saramanda F230SF in the BBG-26 Random Booster vol. 3. Hasbro also released this track in the Behemoth Golem Earth Synchrom 2-pack, with Berserker Behemoth F230TB.

The F230 released with Saramanda is brown in color, and the track released with Hasbro's Earth Synchrome 2-pack is red in color, as opposed to the bright orange track purchased with Bandid Genbull.

The brown and red F230 tracks have shown problems with ware, and the free-spinning function of the track seems to be hindered, squeaking and scraping, as opposed to the smooth, consistent free-spinning function of the orange F230, which works very well when applied to spin-equalization.

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Use in spin-equalization customizations:

The F230 track, for the reasons stated above, can be utilized in the following spin-equalizing customizations.

Reviser/Genbull/Killerken/Gargole Dragooon F230CF
Duo Cygnus/Cancer F230CF

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Bottom: Twin Ball

TB is simply a Wide Ball Bottom with a smaller ball at its tip. This causes it to wobble slightly.

TB has found potential in stamina customizations in both the BB-10 Attack Beystadium and the Zero-G Attack Type Stadium. TB is preferred over most Bottoms for Stamina against opponents using the same spin in Zero-G stadiums due to its impressive ability to resist sway attack types, something which other popular Zero-G stamina bottoms such as BWD/W2D cannot do.

TB, as shown by testing so far, can be utilized very effectively when used with SR200 or TH170, and also performs notably well when used with the Genbull Chrome Wheel, taking advantage of its weight.

However, unlike WD or EWD, TB is relatively vulnerable to opposite-spin customizations due to its rounded shape, and one should avoid using it in an opposite-spin match-up whenever possible, as stamina setups like W145WD are a safer pick in such a scenario.

Despite this fact, as shown by its impressive numbers against same-spin opponents, TB is definitely a competitive stamina part in any stadium format, and is an essential part to any blader majoring in Stamina.

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Use in stamina customization:

TB, for the reasons stated above, can be utilized effectively in the following stamina customizations.

Genbull Genbull/Duo Aquario SR200/TH170TB

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Overall:

The Genbull Chrome Wheel and TB bottom are both must-have parts for bladers majoring in stamina, and F230 has shown extremely high LAD capabilities and serious potency when used with spin-equalizing setups. Almost every part on this beyblade (with the exception of Bandid) is very, very competitive. Every seriously competitive blader should own at least one of this beyblade.

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Is there anyone reason you put Revizer Genbull E230 for defense instead of Genbull Genbull E230?

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^Thank you!

We can't be sure... we can make guesses based on our observations, but things like this are ultimately indeterminable, and our conclusions are, therefore, far from completely certain.

That was a perfect explanation. Kudos to you my friend.

I was told that anything that was not completely certain was unacceptable, but as I see it, this article requires a bit of guesswork if we want to explain certain things.

How about this for an addition to the draft?

You thank him for essentially telling you that it is probably the centre of gravity ? Besides telling me that it is almost impossible to be certain it is that factor, basically the rest of Insomniac's post is telling you to drop the arguement and understand what I have been writing all along because that is all that can be done to observe any explanation ... Yes, you have been telling me all this time that it is not certain, but you have also clearly been against accepting that it is or could indeed be the centre of gravity ...


About your updated draft, those combination descriptions are really not enough at all. You need to thoroughly explain why those parts together work well and how the customization behaves.

We can't be sure... we can make guesses based on our observations, but things like this are ultimately indeterminable, and our conclusions are, therefore, far from completely certain.

[...]

I was told that anything that was not completely certain was unacceptable, but as I see it, this article requires a bit of guesswork if we want to explain certain things.

Without testing, we can see clearly:

> Duo overhangs its Track
> Genbull Genbull does not overhang its Track
> Duo and Genbull Genbull are not the same Wheel

From these simple, yet undeniable, observations, I'd like to say it's conclusive that Duo and Genbull Genbull have different centers of gravity as a result of the aforementioned contrasting physical properties. (Click to View)

To test those statements, you would have to measure many of the already easily-observable aspects of the Wheels in question, but that would almost be pointless since you would only be confirming the obvious.
Generally, difference in shapes = differing distributions of weight, no?

Additionally, I find it highly probable that if Duo and Genbull Genbull are not the same Wheel, and thus do not share the same shape, then they must have different distributions of weight. (Click to View)

Anyone who can see could compare Genbull Genbull to Duo and observe that the extent to which Genbull overhangs its Track is nowhere as significant to that of which Duo overhangs its. Plus, just look at the two: Do they look anything alike asides from the both of them being so circular?

While attributes are usually, and should be, tested to make observations when practical, not all attributes necessarily have to be tested to be observed, as in the cases above.


But this is just my logic.

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

Yes, you can definitely see those types of things, because they are visible.

Mathematically, it's quite obvious that the center of gravity, weight, aerodynamics, and contact points have shifted.

You just don't know which of those shifts is causing the combo to work.

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Yes, you can indirectly know that; that is what Insomniac had said in his previous post ...

Woah woah woah... What?? Excuse me?

I didn't say I thought it wasn't the center of gravity! In fact:

I think that center of gravity is probably the most prominent possibility.

I could believe that it's the center of gravity... that's a really good guess, but it's not a definite fact.

I can give you several theoretical explanations (like center of gravity), but I can't be sure if they are true or not

You just completely changed your stance on the issue... I have not once said that I am opposed to center of gravity as the cause. I just said there is no way to know for sure.

You said that you were sure it was the center of gravity:

Obviously, what these solo spin tests tell is that the centre of gravity is just right when TH170 (170) or SR200 are used

Weight, weight distribution and height are all just factors toward centre of gravity, in this case. The only thing that could be an actual stand-alone other explanation out of what you listed is aerodynamics, but since we are not talking about Tracks (that was the only variable) that are way different like W145 versus 145, I doubt, with my experience as a natural sciences student and from my observations, that this is the explanation. The phenomenon is a vertical one, not really a horizontal one, although SP230 or something huge at 170, 200 or 220 heights would most likely make a difference.

The real question is why would it not be that ... All you have done up until now is claim that it could be aerodynamics, factors towards centre of gravity, centre of gravity, or some other phenomenon which could be complementary to centre of gravity ... I am not certain what else could be observed from a top that remains in the centre, even during battle.

From the beginning:

You stated that the effectiveness of these combos comes from the center of gravity provided by TH170/SR200.

I said that that was a very good answer, but we still can't be sure if it is true or not... which is exactly what you said in the above post.

With all due respect, you just completely contradicted yourself. :\

Can we please be done with this and get on to editing the article? What would you put in to explain the phenomena?

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Finally, we're back on track!

---

Threads

Like BB-46 and testing customs in it, come here:

BB-46 Balance Stadium Combo Testing Thread

Wanna know about Tornado Stallers, come here:

Tornado Stallers

Finally, we're back on track!

Was there a reason for this post other than boosting your count?

Anyways, why don't we just say,"because of the center of gravity, and excellent height provided by the track?"

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OK, what do we say? I'm still new to this. XD

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Well, first of all, add in Kai-V's edits, but anyways:

==Use in Stamina customization==
'''Genbull Genbull SR200TB/CS''' and '''Genbull Genbull TH170TB''' are two top-tier combinations that excel in Stamina. CS and TB succeed in providing the balance of grip and great endurance required to deliver all of Genbull's potential, and SR200 and TH170 provide the perfect center of gravity for the combo, as well as an excellent height for destabilizing taller opponents and force smashing?(Does Genbull have force smash?) lower opponents.

---

Like B-Daman! Go here!

Well, first of all, add in Kai-V's edits, but anyways:

==Use in Stamina customization==
'''Genbull Genbull SR200TB/CS''' and '''Genbull Genbull TH170TB''' are two top-tier combinations that excel in Stamina. CS and TB succeed in providing the balance of grip and great endurance required to deliver all of Genbull's potential, and SR200 and TH170 provide the perfect center of gravity for the combo, as well as an excellent height for destabilizing taller opponents and force smashing?(Does Genbull have force smash?) lower opponents.

Doesn't D/SD/PD work with Genbull*2 TH170? Anyway, my point of the last post was that TBD finally had finally made a turn in the thread, because not for nothin, there's a Phenomenon Thread.

---

Threads

Like BB-46 and testing customs in it, come here:

BB-46 Balance Stadium Combo Testing Thread

Wanna know about Tornado Stallers, come here:

Tornado Stallers

Oh no, Genbull's got nothing for force-smash. :\ That's why I prefer Gryph Dragooon F230CF in Zero-G over Genbull Dragooon. It's got all the bad recoil, without all the good smash.

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Woah woah woah... What?? Excuse me?

I didn't say I thought it wasn't the center of gravity! In fact:

I think that center of gravity is probably the most prominent possibility.

I could believe that it's the center of gravity... that's a really good guess, but it's not a definite fact.

I can give you several theoretical explanations (like center of gravity), but I can't be sure if they are true or not

You just completely changed your stance on the issue... I have not once said that I am opposed to center of gravity as the cause. I just said there is no way to know for sure.

You said that you were sure it was the center of gravity:

Obviously, what these solo spin tests tell is that the centre of gravity is just right when TH170 (170) or SR200 are used

Weight, weight distribution and height are all just factors toward centre of gravity, in this case. The only thing that could be an actual stand-alone other explanation out of what you listed is aerodynamics, but since we are not talking about Tracks (that was the only variable) that are way different like W145 versus 145, I doubt, with my experience as a natural sciences student and from my observations, that this is the explanation. The phenomenon is a vertical one, not really a horizontal one, although SP230 or something huge at 170, 200 or 220 heights would most likely make a difference.

The real question is why would it not be that ... All you have done up until now is claim that it could be aerodynamics, factors towards centre of gravity, centre of gravity, or some other phenomenon which could be complementary to centre of gravity ... I am not certain what else could be observed from a top that remains in the centre, even during battle.

From the beginning:

You stated that the effectiveness of these combos comes from the center of gravity provided by TH170/SR200.

I said that that was a very good answer, but we still can't be sure if it is true or not... which is exactly what you said in the above post.

With all due respect, you just completely contradicted yourself. :\

Can we please be done with this and get on to editing the article? What would you put in to explain the phenomena?

Actually, your first two replies to my post that contained the solo spin test results and my conclusion were attacks toward this conclusion and discrediting it from the beginning as just an assumption. If you cannot accept it since the beginning, then yes, you are against it, and you even replied to me using those words at the start : "I'm against it because [...]".

I was discrediting it as an assumption because that's what it was, and you refused to accept it.

Obviously, what these solo spin tests tell is that the centre of gravity is just right when TH170 (170) or SR200 are used, whereas any other heights are either way too low that it scrapes, or too high that it cannot remain balanced by itself.

How do you know it's the center of gravity? With a track change, you've altered the height, weight, aerodynamics, and weight distribution. You are making an assumption. You cannot be sure that what you are saying is true.

I was not against it, I was just pointing out that we didn't know for sure if it was causing Duo/Genbull's performance or not:

I have not once said that I am opposed to center of gravity as the cause. I just said there is no way to know for sure.

We need to stop this. It's getting out of hand. If we want to put in something like an explanation of a part's performance, then that's fine (duh... you can do whatever you want XD) but the fact is that it's still an assumption and it'll require a bit of guesswork.

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Just a general question since I have made a connection with your lack of description for the Customization suggestions : do you actually understand why parts work together well, or do you just stumble on combinations that do well ?

With all due respect, Personal attacks are unnecessary...

I've tried as hard as possible to contribute to this community as best I can since I joined 8 months ago, and suggesting that I am under qualified for such an undertaking is extremely offensive.

Other users here can testify that my work is not simply based on random guessing, and that I'm perfectly capable of explaining myself and the concept and behaviors of a Beyblade custom.

Please stop; please.

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It is not really a personal attack ... Plus, contributing to the site is not at all always associated with having a clear understanding of why parts work well together : those are two different concepts that only rarely come together.


You were not there when Flame Byxis 230WD was released, but would you have understood/found out that the reason 230 was unexpectedly good is because the other Beyblades used to hit it directly in its centre of gravity ?

Well, that's a good guess, but I actually wouldn't, for a couple reasons:

1. After 230's release, it completely crushed stamina customs from all heights (85-145). Center of gravity has linear measurement, and, therefore, the center of gravity cannot range between a range of 6 millimeters, so not all combos hit it "right in its center of gravity", and yet it won against them all.

2. 230's ability to out-spin low-to-mid track stamina customs with consistency will still prevail when paired with higher bottoms, and Metal Wheels that extend higher or lower beyond the track itself. Basalt 230CS and Duo 230D theoretically have centers of gravity offset by multiple millimeters, and yet both dominated mid-height stamina customs in testing.

Center of gravity is a huge factor when playing around with the height of a custom, and as such, it would only be natural to assume that it does play a significant role in something as drastically differentiated in height as 230, but for the reasons stated above I am inclined to believe that there are separate factors working with center of gravity (IE low recoil [success against 85] and overall height as a shape alteration [IE Duo ability to "force grind" on 230MB]) to produce such an impressive performance as we see in 230 stamina customs.

See? I can make observations too.

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OK, but that proves my point about centre of gravity being a factor and one of the main ones.

OK, but that proves my point about centre of gravity being a factor and one of the main ones.

Yes, center of gravity is most likely one of the main factors. I already said that. I just stated that you don't know for sure if center of gravity is the primary cause.

But, you can obviously still put it in the article.

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What about the section for Bandid, and wheres genbull Dragooon?

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I am an odd person sometimes, here's why (Click to View)

What about the section for Bandid, and wheres genbull Dragooon?

There's no bandid on the front page (I still haven't put the current draft up there), but it's in the edition on the last page.

As for Genbull Dragooon, it has never been tested. EVER. :\ It does great in tournament from what I've heard/seen, but there simply isn't any testing for it yet. IDK, I just don't think we should add something like that just yet.

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When my RBV3 comes in and early college apps are done, I plan on changing that.

Regardless, if it's competitive enough to get dropped on the Advanced Forum Competitive Combo list I see no reason not to put it on.

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"In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations. The new needs friends. Last night, I experienced something new: an extraordinary meal from a singularly unexpected source. To say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking is a gross understatement. They have rocked me to my core. In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau's famous motto, "Anyone can cook." But I realize, only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist; but a great artist can come from anywhere."

-Anton Ego/Peter O'Toole (1932-2013)

Can you guys please take this theories thing to PMs, please?!?

---

Threads

Like BB-46 and testing customs in it, come here:

BB-46 Balance Stadium Combo Testing Thread

Wanna know about Tornado Stallers, come here:

Tornado Stallers