All that video showed was that attack destroy's Odin. Amaterios and Excalibur destroyed Odin and Deathsycther outspun it (also I'm not sure where this full rotation rule came from, if that was a rule spin equalizer match ups would be insane). All that video did was show that Odin doesn't need to be banned...

You forgot two things
1. I said ban Odin + Heavy, the beginning was just a hypothesis.
2. Those tests were scratching the surface for two reasons, the fact that there was 1-5 rounds of testing and the fact that it was all solo (in tournaments it's clearly over powering everything).

Just a side note I'm the only one that has positive results with Xcalibur, Zoro only got 25% against OHD in his tests, Stars says it sucks, and so does everyone that has tested it before. You also missed the fact that Amaterios is rare and not easily accessible, and the fact that i mentioned how the tests varied a lot in a one on one match in my previous post. Lastly the fact that a battle between OHS and DHS is a matter of who launches better makes Odin still over powered, so honestly there is no certain counter to Odin unless you have Amaterios and you're good with Xtreme.

Also about the Full Rotation thing, in Toronto tourneys this has been used a couple times though I think that the rules clearly imply that if a beyblade is still visibly spinning it has won, and yeah DHS was spinning rather clearly then so it was just my misunderstanding. http://prntscr.com/9ueg64

When reading this reply it seems that you contradict yourself. You say that solo are not enough to prove anything and that actual tournament style battles are preferred. But after this you talk about how test show the Xcalibur is not viable vs Odin. whats there to say that Xcalibur wouldnt perform better in a tournament.

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NORTH AMERICAN CHAMPION (MFL) 2014
You gotta risk it to get the biscuit

BEYBLADE WORLD CUP CHAMPION (BST) 2023
You gotta be in the fight to win the fight

You contradicted your self a bit there buddy. If solo tests don't mean as much why does it matter what Zoro, Stars and others got? Also if tournament results mean more have you seen this?. Yes there is a lot of variance in a game like beyblade burst and I will admit that one match doesn't mean everything, but you can't tell me that Odin didn't get absolutely destroyed there.

The rarity of a beyblade should not be a factor in this. Good Orange F230's were hard to come by at times, is that part less good because it's harder to get? Amaterios's rarity should not change the fact that it does destroy Odin.

Launch difference has always been a part of beyblade. If both players have the same launches (like in your video where you were launching by your self) then Deathscyther out spins Odin.

That video showed an abundance of counters, Deathscyther and attack. I've seen Deathscyther out spin Odin on so many occasions (way more than I've seen Odin actually out spin Deathscyther). I've seen extreme demolish it on so many occasions, your video, NC's tournament and MD's tournament (geetster99 explained how dominant Extreme was).

This whole case seems like a whole bunch of people either being to afraid to use attack, or they think Odin is so "end all be all" that they won't even give combinations like Deathscyther a chance.

Deathscyther would definitely not have won in yesterday's tournament, against all Odin Heavy Defense. Attack is also guaranteed to have less victory percentage in a tournament ... Also keep in mind that 1234beyblade has one hell of a launch, so consider every counter in that video as being a lot less effective in the hands of most people.

Well alright, I'm not one to disagree with the fact that Xcalibur, Amaterios, and Deathscyther are counters because honestly they're my favorite combinations in the game and I feel like Xcalibur is the best layer in the game right now, so sure with the amount of practice I've had with Xcalibur can make it seem very good, though some people are better with Odin, for example Stars and ClaraM probably know how to use Odin better than me so I wouldn't be surprised if one of them beat me with OHD even if i used Amaterios or Xcalibur for attack. I have tested VHX against OHD with Mitsu and all I have to say is i got completely opposite results shown in that video, VHX got completely destroyed, it was so bad that I decided to not even post the results.

I think you misunderstood my "solo tests" comment, sure they will never be as good as actual tournament matches but they do give you a general idea of how the combo can do.

Deathscyther would definitely not have won in yesterday's tournament, against all Odin Heavy Defense. Attack is also guaranteed to have less victory percentage in a tournament ... Also keep in mind that 1234beyblade has one hell of a launch, so consider every counter in that video as being a lot less effective in the hands of most people.

Did anyone even attempt to use it? And why wouldn't it be that effective against Odin? Also the results of your tournament depends on the players, it appeared there were many children at your event that you "swept". Did you see the video I posted above? It seemed to have a pretty sweet victory against Odin. You can't tell me that the only person who can launch attack is 1234beyblade.

Well alright, I'm not one to disagree with the fact that Xcalibur, Amaterios, and Deathscyther are counters because honestly they're my favorite combinations in the game and I feel like Xcalibur is the best layer in the game right now, so sure with the amount of practice I've had with Xcalibur can make it seem very good, though some people are better with Odin, for example Stars and ClaraM probably know how to use Odin better than me so I wouldn't be surprised if one of them beat me with OHD even if i used Amaterios or Xcalibur for attack. I have tested VHX against OHD with Mitsu and all I have to say is i got completely opposite results shown in that video, VHX got completely destroyed, it was so bad that I decided to not even post the results.

I think you misunderstood my "solo tests" comment, sure they will never be as good as actual tournament matches but they do give you a general idea of how the combo can do.

Which side are you taking solo tests, or tournament/multiple players results? You keep flip flopping and it's becoming quite obnoxious and makes it really hard to want to agree with your case.

Well alright, I'm not one to disagree with the fact that Xcalibur, Amaterios, and Deathscyther are counters because honestly they're my favorite combinations in the game and I feel like Xcalibur is the best layer in the game right now, so sure with the amount of practice I've had with Xcalibur can make it seem very good, though some people are better with Odin, for example Stars and ClaraM probably know how to use Odin better than me so I wouldn't be surprised if one of them beat me with OHD even if i used Amaterios or Xcalibur for attack. I have tested VHX against OHD with Mitsu and all I have to say is i got completely opposite results shown in that video, VHX got completely destroyed, it was so bad that I decided to not even post the results.

I think you misunderstood my "solo tests" comment, sure they will never be as good as actual tournament matches but they do give you a general idea of how the combo can do.

Which side are you taking solo tests, or tournament/multiple players results? You keep flip flopping and it's becoming quite obnoxious and makes it really hard to want to agree with your case.
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Am okay, i'm saying one on one > solo... was that hard to understand from that sentence?

"they will never be as good as actual tournament matches"

"they do give you a general idea of how the combo can do"

to me that quite clearly says one on one > solo but alright. Anyway you should get back on topic and actually post your opinion of the possible ban instead of criticizing my opinion and my results.

Well alright, I'm not one to disagree with the fact that Xcalibur, Amaterios, and Deathscyther are counters because honestly they're my favorite combinations in the game and I feel like Xcalibur is the best layer in the game right now, so sure with the amount of practice I've had with Xcalibur can make it seem very good, though some people are better with Odin, for example Stars and ClaraM probably know how to use Odin better than me so I wouldn't be surprised if one of them beat me with OHD even if i used Amaterios or Xcalibur for attack. I have tested VHX against OHD with Mitsu and all I have to say is i got completely opposite results shown in that video, VHX got completely destroyed, it was so bad that I decided to not even post the results.

I think you misunderstood my "solo tests" comment, sure they will never be as good as actual tournament matches but they do give you a general idea of how the combo can do.

Which side are you taking solo tests, or tournament/multiple players results? You keep flip flopping and it's becoming quite obnoxious and makes it really hard to want to agree with your case.

Am okay, i'm saying one on one > solo... was that hard to understand from that sentence?

"they will never be as good as actual tournament matches"

"they do give you a general idea of how the combo can do"

to me that quite clearly says one on one > solo but alright. Anyway you should get back on topic and actually post your opinion of the possible ban instead of criticizing my opinion and my results.
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Your post was as off topic as mine was.

There seems to be a very big difference in results, it appears that Odin is an invincible fortress in Canada, while in the East Coast Odin is just an ordinary stamina combo that gets wrecked by attack and even gets out spun by Deathscyther. What do you think causes this difference?

There seems to be a very big difference in results, it appears that Odin is an invincible fortress in Canada, while in the East Coast Odin is just an ordinary stamina combo that gets wrecked by attack and even gets out spun by Deathscyther. What do you think causes this difference?

I'd actually love to know that, too. Despite being hesitant to ban it, I wouldn't hesitate to say that it's currently the most overwhelmingly powerful combination in the game. My only hesistance is that we haven't given Xtreme's appearance long enough to shake out, and for people to get comfortable with using it. But versus Deathscyther-based Stamina customs and Accel-based Attack customs, OHD is a no-brainer choice.

Actually, it is also overpowered in London and in Japan, too.

We somewhat saw yesterday that the dark green Defense from the Kerbeus Starter seemed to make a difference as it appeared more stable, but I do not know if this is exclusively what is being used in Canada, in London and in Japan as well hah.

Actually, it is also overpowered in London and in Japan, too.

We somewhat saw yesterday that the dark green Defense from the Kerbeus Starter seemed to make a difference as it appeared more stable, but I do not know if this is exclusively what is being used in Canada, in London and in Japan as well hah.

Deathscyther has seemed to being a bit better in Japan than Deathscyther from what Kei has posted...

That's actually very interesting. I've never noticed if they actually were different but that would definitely be something to look into.

I doubt there's a real difference between the colors; more likely that some of the Drivers in use yesterday were just in better or worse condition than others.

Kei mentioned losing to Deathscyther a few times, but also mentioned dominating with OHD most of the time. A few losses are anomalies, not trends.

Actually, it is also overpowered in London and in Japan, too.

We somewhat saw yesterday that the dark green Defense from the Kerbeus Starter seemed to make a difference as it appeared more stable, but I do not know if this is exclusively what is being used in Canada, in London and in Japan as well hah.

Deathscyther has seemed to being a bit better in Japan than Deathscyther from what Kei has posted...

That's actually very interesting. I've never noticed if they actually were different but that would definitely be something to look into.

That was months ago; Japan had not properly adopted Odin.

Speaking of which, saw this post yesterday: https://twitter.com/jirogg/status/690458234105237504

Not a WBO Organized Play event, but my friend Jumbo・わりベイ told me that these were the winning combos for two G1 Events at the World Hobby Fair in Tokyo:

RICK・わりベイ
Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Valkyrie Heavy Extreme

MIYU・わりベイ
Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Odin Heavy Defense

In both cases, Deathscyther Heavy Defense was used for everything but the finals.

Deathscyther seemed to be really relevant here.

Also may I ask who is the person who posted the twitter post, like how reliable are they?

i agree with 1234 beyblade. just ban odin+heavy combos.

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member of team obsidian

Also may I ask who is the person who posted the twitter post, like how reliable are they?

Does it matter? It wasn't meant to be definitive evidence. But just because Deathscyther was used to win the G1 doesn't mean it's objectively better than Odin. I just don't think Odin is popular in Japan, for whatever reason. In my own tests, DS doesn't stand up to Odin, and neither did it at the last tournament I played in Toronto.

I think we should wait until Burst starts expanding before any ban. For all we know the Dual layers will completely outclass all the Beys out right now. If it's still a problem after many new releases have occur than we should discuss a ban. All the tournaments going on right now are while we are still exploring the Burst metagame.

Color on a wheel can't matter unless it is designed differently which in this case it is not.

Also may I ask who is the person who posted the twitter post, like how reliable are they?

Does it matter? It wasn't meant to be definitive evidence. But just because Deathscyther was used to win the G1 doesn't mean it's objectively better than Odin. I just don't think Odin is popular in Japan, for whatever reason. In my own tests, DS doesn't stand up to Odin, and neither did it at the last tournament I played in Toronto.

Do you ever wonder why Odin it not used? They must have some logic to using Deathscyther more than Odin Heavy Defense. They might think that Deathscyther's not popular here for whatever reason.

Very interesting, I wonder what the difference is between our regions that would lead Odin Heavy Defense to dominate.

I think we should wait until Burst starts expanding before any ban. For all we know the Dual layers will completely outclass all the Beys out right now. If it's still a problem after many new releases have occur than we should discuss a ban. All the tournaments going on right now are while we are still exploring the Burst metagame.

Color on a wheel can't matter unless it is designed differently which in this case it is not.

We cannot afford to have five more months of Odin Heavy Defense dominating. Do you realise that this is when Dual Layers will come out ? The problem is now and we cannot wait for a solution to be released in the future, because tournaments will keep happening until then.

It was the color and sort of plastic of a Driver, not of a Layer.

Do you ever wonder why Odin it not used? They must have some logic to using Deathscyther more than Odin Heavy Defense.

Assuming there must be an invisible logic we don't understand, in the face of numerous results indicating otherwise, seems to be a mistake to me. We know for a fact that OHD can beat DHD consistently, and that variances to that are typically anomalies. Not only that, OHD resists Attack-types far better than DHD does.

I think we should wait until Burst starts expanding before any ban. For all we know the Dual layers will completely outclass all the Beys out right now. If it's still a problem after many new releases have occur than we should discuss a ban. All the tournaments going on right now are while we are still exploring the Burst metagame.

Color on a wheel can't matter unless it is designed differently which in this case it is not.

We cannot afford to have five more months of Odin Heavy Defense dominating. Do you realise that this is when Dual Layers will come out ? The problem is now and we cannot wait for a solution to be released in the future, because tournaments will keep happening until then.

It was the color and sort of plastic of a Driver, not of a Layer.

A temporary ban can be imposed just like the F230 ban and I feel it should be the combo itself as the parts themselves don't produce as big of an impact. The ban should be for more than 7 tournaments due to the amount of Burst tournaments happening around the world. An even better way would be to do just one trial tournament with a ban to see how different the results are. The best place to do it would probably be in Toronto or UK as those are the primary hotspots at the moment for this combo.

Still, they didn't change the shape in anyway so it can't be different.

I'm gonna end it on this. I and multiple other East Coast players do not think Odin Heavy Defense is overpowering as it is said to be and honestly I think this is a huge over reaction. Although you (the committee) has the ultimate say so it's honestly up to you guys.

I'm gonna end it on this. I and multiple other East Coast players do not think Odin Heavy Defense is overpowering as it is said to be and honestly I think this is a huge over reaction. Although you (the committee) has the ultimate say so it's honestly up to you guys.

Agreed. I think a trial ban should be imposed on one tourney in the regions where OHD dominates (Toronto in my opinion) and just see how it affects the outcome.

Your input is totally appreciated, but we need to see some real evidence to support that position. And I would love for you to be right, for what it's worth.

Regarding the whole DHD vs OHD debate: I'm finally testing it right now and things are basically dead even. So, I do not agree that OHD can defeat DHD consistently. However, it is correct that OHD is more versatile in the end because it can take hits better than the Deathscyther variant.

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