World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. World Beyblade Organization Beyblade Tournaments Tournament Reports

[7/10/22] BST Experimental Format: Match Points and Ties Recorded

Poll: After reading this tournament report, do you believe that the WBO should count round points instead of match wins?

Yes
7.69%
1
No
30.77%
4
I need to see more experimental tournaments before I make up my mind
61.54%
8
Total: 100% 13 vote(s)
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Jul. 11, 2022  12:36 AM
 
This will be a quick one but hopefully long enough to encourage more dialogue about altering WBO scoring to take into account round wins. Today's 3v3 format was a normal standard format event with just two primary differences: matches were recorded by total points in the first stage, with the players with the most individual round wins going to finals, and ties were recorded as 1-1 from the onset. To streamline the process, I added one additional rule that alone would not have made the format experimental in nature—rather than automatically recording all opposite spin matches, players would have to let a judge know if they wanted their match to be recorded and if they did not, video would not be used as a reference point. Video footage has been the cause of significant judging fatigue for many of our regulars, so this rule change felt like a justified addition and one that made sense in a format were players would already be encouraged to avoid ties.

While these two rules may not seem that impactful, they certainly influenced deck selection and added more pressure to the first stage, especially when it came to matches against less experienced bladers, where giving up a point or two could mean the difference between whether or not you make finals (this was the case for me, as I would have needed just 1 round win to pull ahead of AJL and go to finals). For my part, I reversed course from the day prior, where I had used Drift, Metal Drift, and Br' in my deck throughout first stage, and primarily used a combination of Guilty X', Vanish HXt+, and Dynamite Br' as I was more confident that they would result in a clearer round win, ultimately going 5-1 (compared to 4-1 the day prior).


Although match points were no longer recorded in finals (in single elimination this just doesn't make sense), we continued to run the tie rule with the adjustment that players who tied would select their next beys in secret. Strategically, I felt that this could be an interesting way to reset and potentially gain an advantage in the all-to-common scenario where both players' decks cover one another's combos and the player who earned the first point through blind selection wins. Godly_Requiem and I ran a deck match for practice before finals, and I found that the blind selection after ties also resulted in some fun mindgames mid-match, as I had a feel for how his deck would play and what he would feel most confident using against me.

Overall, I found the change of pace refreshing and would highly encourage other regions to give this rulset a try. We ran the event in block round robin with 14 players and finished finals in just about two hours. Looking forward to hearing others' feedback and if there is anything you would change about these rules!
Jul. 11, 2022  1:16 AM
 
(Jul. 11, 2022  12:36 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: This will be a quick one but hopefully long enough to encourage more dialogue about altering WBO scoring to take into account round wins. Today's 3v3 format was a normal standard format event with just two primary differences: matches were recorded by total points in the first stage, with the players with the most individual round wins going to finals, and ties were recorded as 1-1 from the onset. To streamline the process, I added one additional rule that alone would not have made the format experimental in nature—rather than automatically recording all opposite spin matches, players would have to let a judge know if they wanted their match to be recorded and if they did not, video would not be used as a reference point. Video footage has been the cause of significant judging fatigue for many of our regulars, so this rule change felt like a justified addition and one that made sense in a format were players would already be encouraged to avoid ties.

While these two rules may not seem that impactful, they certainly influenced deck selection and added more pressure to the first stage, especially when it came to matches against less experienced bladers, where giving up a point or two could mean the difference between whether or not you make finals (this was the case for me, as I would have needed just 1 round win to pull ahead of AJL and go to finals). For my part, I reversed course from the day prior, where I had used Drift, Metal Drift, and Br' in my deck throughout first stage, and primarily used a combination of Guilty X', Vanish HXt+, and Dynamite Br' as I was more confident that they would result in a clearer round win, ultimately going 5-1 (compared to 4-1 the day prior).


Although match points were no longer recorded in finals (in single elimination this just doesn't make sense), we continued to run the tie rule with the adjustment that players who tied would select their next beys in secret. Strategically, I felt that this could be an interesting way to reset and potentially gain an advantage in the all-to-common scenario where both players' decks cover one another's combos and the player who earned the first point through blind selection wins. Godly_Requiem and I ran a deck match for practice before finals, and I found that the blind selection after ties also resulted in some fun mindgames mid-match, as I had a feel for how his deck would play and what he would feel most confident using against me.

Overall, I found the change of pace refreshing and would highly encourage other regions to give this rulset a try. We ran the event in block round robin with 14 players and finished finals in just about two hours. Looking forward to hearing others' feedback and if there is anything you would change about these rules!

Nice write up. I wanted to ask for clarification, are you saying if a player wins a match 3-2 then they gain 1 point for that match/round? And players with the largest amount of points gained go onto finals? Instead of the challonge bushultz (or however you spell it) and tie breaker wins? Similar to Blader's Kingdom finals is what I am trying to ask. I hope this makes sense through text.
Jul. 11, 2022  1:35 AM
 
(Jul. 11, 2022  1:16 AM)StayCool Wrote:
(Jul. 11, 2022  12:36 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: This will be a quick one but hopefully long enough to encourage more dialogue about altering WBO scoring to take into account round wins. Today's 3v3 format was a normal standard format event with just two primary differences: matches were recorded by total points in the first stage, with the players with the most individual round wins going to finals, and ties were recorded as 1-1 from the onset. To streamline the process, I added one additional rule that alone would not have made the format experimental in nature—rather than automatically recording all opposite spin matches, players would have to let a judge know if they wanted their match to be recorded and if they did not, video would not be used as a reference point. Video footage has been the cause of significant judging fatigue for many of our regulars, so this rule change felt like a justified addition and one that made sense in a format were players would already be encouraged to avoid ties.

While these two rules may not seem that impactful, they certainly influenced deck selection and added more pressure to the first stage, especially when it came to matches against less experienced bladers, where giving up a point or two could mean the difference between whether or not you make finals (this was the case for me, as I would have needed just 1 round win to pull ahead of AJL and go to finals). For my part, I reversed course from the day prior, where I had used Drift, Metal Drift, and Br' in my deck throughout first stage, and primarily used a combination of Guilty X', Vanish HXt+, and Dynamite Br' as I was more confident that they would result in a clearer round win, ultimately going 5-1 (compared to 4-1 the day prior).


Although match points were no longer recorded in finals (in single elimination this just doesn't make sense), we continued to run the tie rule with the adjustment that players who tied would select their next beys in secret. Strategically, I felt that this could be an interesting way to reset and potentially gain an advantage in the all-to-common scenario where both players' decks cover one another's combos and the player who earned the first point through blind selection wins. Godly_Requiem and I ran a deck match for practice before finals, and I found that the blind selection after ties also resulted in some fun mindgames mid-match, as I had a feel for how his deck would play and what he would feel most confident using against me.

Overall, I found the change of pace refreshing and would highly encourage other regions to give this rulset a try. We ran the event in block round robin with 14 players and finished finals in just about two hours. Looking forward to hearing others' feedback and if there is anything you would change about these rules!

Nice write up. I wanted to ask for clarification, are you saying if a player wins a match 3-2 then they gain 1 point for that match/round? And players with the largest amount of points gained go onto finals? Instead of the challonge bushultz (or however you spell it) and tie breaker wins? Similar to Blader's Kingdom finals is what I am trying to ask. I hope this makes sense through text.
Appreciate the clarification! If the final result is 3-2, then player A would receive 3 points and player B would receive 2 points. With this rule change, number of round wins would replace match record.
Jul. 11, 2022  1:52 AM
 
(Jul. 11, 2022  1:35 AM)The Supreme One Wrote:
(Jul. 11, 2022  1:16 AM)StayCool Wrote: Nice write up. I wanted to ask for clarification, are you saying if a player wins a match 3-2 then they gain 1 point for that match/round? And players with the largest amount of points gained go onto finals? Instead of the challonge bushultz (or however you spell it) and tie breaker wins? Similar to Blader's Kingdom finals is what I am trying to ask. I hope this makes sense through text.
Appreciate the clarification! If the final result is 3-2, then player A would receive 3 points and player B would receive 2 points. With this rule change, number of round wins would replace match record.

Solid, I think it's legit. It's just a lot of work for the judge and/or organizer, but that may be ok. I am just thinking for larger events and keeping tabs but I have not done this myself in challonge so I am not sure. I know it would definitely bring another aspect of skill to the game. Strategy would definitely have to change in regards to 3v3. 1v1 or P3C1 I am not so sure. I am willing to test it out though.

In regards to the no camera rule, or requesting it I am all for that. I honestly dislike using a camera because it really does cause fatigue like you mentioned. And I think it adds to the frustration of making a call because the more you look at those stamina opposite spin battles the more it looks like a draw or you can even convince yourself that the beyblade you swore lost in the beginning actually won. I think that is just due to eye fatigue, its a natural occurrence that we don't really talk about with judging. I still use recording for 1, because some players get REALLY upset if you don't but more so because of the back wall KO rule. That rule is why I need the camera. I am perfectly fine with judging the stamina matches and calling it a draw and not waste minutes of looking at slow mo replays. But the back wall KO is tough to call and they tend to happen too fast to notice, like at the beginning of a match. 

Overall I think it would be great to consider the match wins with point wins, it'll give a fun and skillful aspect to the game or maybe just 3v3. I am 100% for no cameras, but we still have to address that KO rule and players have to respect the judges call as final.
Jul. 11, 2022  1:53 AM
 
The following are words I have to say about the tournament "If You Tie in the Game You Tie in Real Life", a 3v3 Burst Standard unranked tournament with special rules for ties.

I recommend the following music for reading the report. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiQRHjDNfsY . Look, I play a lot of good videogames, don't judge me.

- The weather was nice. Not too hot, we had a lot of rain yesterday. We got a lot of good breezes in the morning and early afternoon. By the end of the second tournament it was getting hot again. The weather could've been so much worse.

- We had kind of a low turnout for both tournaments. They had only been announced a few days in advance, and a lot of people couldn't go to tournaments two days in a row. Heck, I shouldn't have gone to tournaments two days in a row. I was tired at the start and I'm tired now. TSO thankfully let me hold off on judging most of the time, other people judged. I only had to judge a few matches.

- After the previous tournament and before the start of this one, TSO held a "find the worst Burst beyblade competition". The rules were simple, everyone make the worst beyblade they can. Hand it to your opponent. Your opponent tries to win with it, and you just hope the beyblade you made is terrible enough that they can't win with it. There were a lot of trash tips and weak layers. 2 people used Quest. There was a bunch of Hold and Volcanic. I came up with Odin Boost Quest, which is Awful, but Quest has Okay Stamina and Odin is a good layer even though it has bad teeth. It kept winning, which wasn't the point. I would say Friedpasta won the dang thing though. He had what you call a Galaxy Brain moment. He was running some layer I forget on 12 disc, with a Turn frame that Barely Held on Quest. His plan was actually very simple, and we got to see every version of it: Turn on Quest will Scrape. If it doesn't hold on well, it will fall off, and if a frame falls off the opponent gets a point. Well played, you maniac.

- We had a total of 14 entrants for the actual tournament, including 3 eager new bladers who were all sharing parts. They had to pool their beys together to have enough for 3v3. They did not have a ton of success. Dromus came back for a tournament after a long absence since the start of lockdown, and his beys were unfortunately mostly Dual Layer era.

- Because there were 14 of us, it was 2 group round robin, 7 in each, split up evenly by rankings. Group round robin always has the side effect of turning one of the groups into an incredibly difficult struggle, and I would say Group A was that struggle. 5 extremely good bladers and parts in that one. Group B, where I was, a slightly less difficult track. 3, maybe 4, real competitive decks there.

- This tournament was special. There were some interesting rule changes for this one. Ties gave a point to each blader. The match ended once one of them hit 3 points. When any or both bladers hit 3 points, the match was over, and if both hit 3 then the final record was a tie. The points gained in each match were recorded, so going 3-0 was very important if you wanted to reach the finals. More than the win-loss record, it was your total points that mattered. In Deck Format, a tie meant a point to each opponent, and then a secret selection of one of the 3 beys, so that affected Deck Format play a lot. Also, unless one of the bladers requested it, video footage could not be used for judging. An interesting set of rules!

- There were a couple of times when bladers did not request video footage when I was judging. I even asked sometimes, and they said no. You know what? Sure, why not. I tended to prefer video footage for my opposite spin matches for reasons that will soon become clear.

- Let's talk about the Crab in the room. Your buddy DC does not always make the best decisions when it comes down to strategic thinking, and often loses deck format because of it. Does he make it to finals? Sometimes. But after yesterday's defeat at the hands of CrisisCrusher07 (he was in the other bracket today and had a tough time with that bracket) I decided I would stop being creative and go with what I know works and works well. I ran Dynamite Perseus+F Tapered Bearing-9, Vanish Bahamut Over HXt+'+0, World Spriggan 1S Giga Drift. Look familiar? It should. It should look familliar to JCMakeEmBurst, to Crisis, to geetster99, to Allen Schaffer, and to a couple of other people all running more or less the same deck across the last couple of tournaments. I did not vary this deck ONCE the entire time. And honestly, until Deck Format, it was Mostly unstoppable. I went 3-0 in every first round match but one, when I went 3-1. I will say that World on Drift works a lot better in 3v3 when people can't directly control what they're using each and every battle. So I did make it to the finals. Also I should remember to switch out my Bahamut for Longinus if I'm not using Metal Drift.

- With me in group B was Godly_Requiem, who won all his matches except the one against me in first stage. He's back, and he's good. Friedpasta was in our bracket, but getting losses to both me and Godly blocked him from the finals.

- Group A's finals run was a struggle. BearsFTW25 won half his matches, but 12 points overall won't do it. CrisisCrusher07 won 3 as well, 13 points. The top 3 were Mike.Nightwing, @"AJL_Blader", and The Supreme One. Hey, welcome back AJL! So although TSO had 5 wins and 1 loss, and the other two a record of 4-1-1 (one tie with each other), the total points mattered. Mike had 17, both AJL and TSO had 16. But AJL won his match against TSO, so that was that.

- The finals were me against AJL, Godly against Nightwing. My match against AJL was Very Close and Very Difficult. I think the final score was 6-5. He had a deck of Vanish, Guilty, and Astral on right with Bearing. It was actually beating my Dynamite at first, and I asked "Why is your Bearing so good on Astral?" and the answer is "It is a normal Bearing and it is Very Worn Down!" and I responded "I see! That makes a lot of sense! It is quite good!" And I thought, the heck with it, gamble, time to go into High Mode, it's really my only hope here. With my Dynamite on high mode, I was able to get a few points. I kept using it. I looked at all his beys and I thought to myself "Dynamite is really going to be my best bet against his Vanish and Guilty combos, and in High Mode it stands a chance against his Astral combo". So I went all in on Dynamite. I always continued picking it. He got some points with Astral, and he even got a couple opposite spin outspin points with Guilty. It was a lot of back and forth and reviewing the footage took Friedpasta and Crisis quite a while each time. It was a little bit stressful. In the end I was victorious, although really it was VERY close.

- My final match for first place against Godly was NOT very close, he basically completely blew me out of the water. He knew my deck, I knew his deck, and he just played it better. I think it was 5-1? Truly a strong victory for him.

- The top 4 were AJL, Mike, Me, and then Godly.

- I've decided I don't like World on Drift in Deck Format. Oh, it's just fine in first round, great even in 3v3. But in Deck? I dunno, I just don't like it. I even have a good Drift but when everyone is running these seriously good combos I can't seem to find a good use for it. What I want is either a really good right spin attack layer (Savior and Ultimate don't interact) or a really, REALLY good right spin same spin only stamina layer. Atomic doesn't work so well anymore for DB, HXt' is good, but I want something better honestly, something that beats bearing. I've considered a lot of tips, but I'm still trying to find my answer.

- Doing 3 tournaments in 2 days after how exhasted I was after the first was a mistake. But... I like Beyblade. If more people were going to show up to both of these, I probably would have bailed. I AM glad I went. Both rulesets were very fun and interesting.

- If I'm being completely honest, I don't think counting by points instead of by wins is the way to go here. I think count ties as a .5 and then go by win record at the end. We should count ties as 1 point for each in a battle and allow tie endings, but don't count by points: What if someone gets a burst finish and winds up with 4-0 as a result? Should a 3-0 win against a brand new player count the same as a 3-0 win against FriedPasta or GodlyRequiem? Nah. That's why we've got Buchholz; the ability of your opponents affects your standing. Should a lucky burst give a person an extra point for ranking purposes? Definitely not.

I'm tired. Have fun at North Carolina, I'll see y'all in August.
Jul. 11, 2022  2:11 AM
 
(Jul. 11, 2022  1:53 AM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: - This tournament was special. There were some interesting rule changes for this one. Ties gave a point to each blader. The match ended once one of them hit 3 points. When any or both bladers hit 3 points, the match was over, and if both hit 3 then the final record was a tie. The points gained in each match were recorded, so going 3-0 was very important if you wanted to reach the finals. More than the win-loss record, it was your total points that mattered. In Deck Format, a tie meant a point to each opponent, and then a secret selection of one of the 3 beys, so that affected Deck Format play a lot. Also, unless one of the bladers requested it, video footage could not be used for judging. An interesting set of rules!

This part actually makes this quite intriguing! I am for this! I know it may seem silly but with the immense amount of ties I am 100% for this. Players will have to start being more creative or something, but ultimately I see this as moving the tournament along smoothly. Gaining points would be more valued and creativity will start.

One thing that I would like to do or add are "bans". I know in standard bans are not a thing, and this is off topic but goes along with helping the game. We don't have to do permanent bans, but we can ban drift and/or bearing for like a season or so. Think of how creative we would have to be. I have been on the side of "players pay for the parts so they should use them" that's true but this is competitive play. If something is spammed or OP we have to balance things out to keep the game fresh and fun. TT and Hasbro makes these parts but we play with our own style and format in the WBO. We have to do what we can to get the game fresh and innovative for us and future generations. The old school players love classic for balance. I am new though and don't have those parts, but I also like the newer bulkier beys, but I would like spammed parts to be banned just for a bit. Let never and moment run the meta for a while, or some players that can utilize Wave' fairly well. I think that may help. Then bring back drift for a season and or bearing. IDK. I think we are all on the same page on making things healthier though. So I am all for it.

Sorry DeceasedCrab that second paragraph was more for TSO but I wanted to point out your comment that got me kinda excited for this style. I know Mike Nightwing does it but I would love to see it in first stage also, not deck/finals though.
Aug. 03, 2022  1:26 PM
 
This seems like an interesting idea, and one I’d like to see more from. But from what it seems it looks like way too many variables to keep track of. And can easily be forgotten or miscommunicated during the flow of the tournament