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Screw Discussion

Apr. 04, 2011  5:35 PM
 
Dunno about it outclassing GB145, but yeah. I suppose what you said is true. But still, results are results and a working combo is a working combo.

I'll test this tomorrow, anyway. I suppose it's compactness must help, but I'd swear it shoudl have too much recoil to function on cs. Also, might I suggest Kerbecs as a CW, it should be more balanced than bull, being 3-sided like screw, and being of similar weight to bull.
Apr. 04, 2011  5:46 PM
 
alright and I see you changed your username cool Smile and I really need to get thermal pisces if what your saying is true I will use kerbecs and do tests
Apr. 04, 2011  5:53 PM
 
Heh, not really worth the cost of getting thermal pisces just to make an outdated attack combo better, just use horogium instead, should be just as good Smile If you don't have it, basalt horogim should be your next buy anyway Tongue_out

Dunno if kerbecs will make a huge difference in 10 rounds, might help a little, though. Solo spin time should increase by a bit though Smile Might be worth doing a single 10 round test against whatever has done best against it so far, to see if it does any worse, though Smile

And thanks for the username thing. MeteorKing didn't sound mature enough to suit my crotchety-old-man attitude.
Apr. 05, 2011  7:19 AM
 
I already bought basalt and screw BTW does better in attack with heavy clear wheels such as kerbecs and couldnt leone be a good sub for horogium
Apr. 05, 2011  7:20 AM
 
leone is high pisces and horgium are flat so i dont think leone is the 3rd best choice
Apr. 05, 2011  7:35 AM
 
@bigbangblaze- IMO, if you speak of 'HEAVY' clear wheels, then there are better options than leone.... For example, Bull is a great clear wheel
Apr. 05, 2011  12:41 PM
 
The aim is to expose the metal as much as possible. Leone isn't flat enough, and nor is kerbecs, to get those awesome KO's. (Good response RustyXD)

It might work, though, maybe I'm wrong on the CW thing, but I suspect using a different CW might prevent the amazing HUGE KO's you get every so often, as I believe those come off the second slope, which is easily blocked.

Jan, I suspect he said Leone as it's 3-sided and resembles horogium. It MIGHT still work, but considering that most serious bladers have horogium, there's not that much point.

And if we're looking for heavy wheels, Aquario would be the obvious choice. In my rounds before I used pisces, I did use other wheels (unicorno, I believe, was one), and I tested pisces because I saw an improvement in my quick rounds. I don't have testing to back that up, but yeah.
Apr. 05, 2011  12:57 PM
 
Escorpio would be good as it is Jagged as Pisces and has an Odd Shape.The same goes for Aquila.
Apr. 05, 2011  1:01 PM
 
Obviously, I tried escolpio, the "tails" get in the way of one of the slopes. Aquila is a terrible choice.

That's IF my CW thing is really correct, but from what I've seen it made a difference in my quick rounds before I decided to test with pisces.
Apr. 05, 2011  1:03 PM
 
Ummm....
How about Cancer?
i DEFENITELY SEEI IT HAVe POTENTIAL.
Apr. 05, 2011  1:19 PM
 
Eeeeeeeeeh, it still gets in the way. Honestly, I've got most CW's, and more Cancers than even the most hardened skeptic could take as anything but a bad omen for a ginger Smile
And no, cancer SEVERELY obscures the slopes.



OKAY, TIME TO SETTLE THIS.
Here we go, I've now done the full 10 rounds with each. Each set may be viewed separately inside the spoiler, for those of you that REALLY want to be difficult about it, but yeah. I think my non-testing observations are pretty noteworthy.
I didn't use a REAL top-tier for defence, because, lets be honest, you won't see a noticeable difference in results, You're not really going to get under BD145 enough to use the slopes, and 230 is obviously only going to be beaten by lucky hits, so yeah. Basalt is also heavy, SO, yeah, I didn't use a proper top tier defense, but this was only done so we can actually observe the difference made by using different CW's, which is, in what I've learnt, at least, a legitimate means of testing..

All testing done in BB-10 TT Attack Stadium, Beylauncher, Libra shoots first. CS worn but not that aggressive. RF pretty much prime. Draws were re-done

MF Screw Cancer 90RF vs MF Libra GB145CS
Screw Cancer: 6/10, All KO
Libra: 4/10 2 OS, 2 KO (both rebound off wall)
1 Draw, Double KO
Cancer Win Rate: 60%

MF Screw Pisces 90RF vs MF Libra GB145CS
Screw Pisces: 8/10, all KO
Libra: 2/10, 1 KO, 1OS
1 Draw, Double KO
Pisces Win Rate: 80%

Testing broken into the separate 5 round blocks. (Click to View)

While Screw still hits like a bus using Cancer, it seems to hit noticeably harder with Pisces. Maybe I'm a little biased, but it does seem to hit noticeably harder, KOing libra in the first couple of hits, whereas using cancer, it's normally a bit longer.

And yeah, these results were actually more pronounced than I expected (I expected one difference), but that's how the cookie crumbled.

And yeah, I'm using a metal face on screw, it needs it these days if it wants to have a chance against basalt, so even though it mightn't have needed it against these combo's, it wouldn't make sense not to use one.

I feel sorry for screw, it arrived just too late to be famous, even Ray got to be top tier, and that's pretty laughable by comparison.

Anyway, my summary essay thingo:
Just remember, you want to have as little plastic in the way of the Slopes of Screw as possible, Pisces isn't choses for it's jagged shape, those "spikes" don't touch the opponent. It's chosen because it has a very low profile, at least near the edge of the wheel. You don't want plastic blocking your metal, same goes for vulcan IMO (though that comes with an excellent CW anyway, Byxis might be a good choice for that, too). It's simple, basically, you want more smash? Metal on Metal is more violent than plastic on metal, so you want your plastic out of the way of your metal.

In this case, you want to let Screw get it's second slope (with the spike up at the end), get under the opponent, so it gets lifted by the spike and the following "Smash-Head/Slope" would either further lift it, or Smash it out (not sure which happens, but yeah). It's more of an "Upward Smash" than an upper attack, but it has similar, if more dramatic and recoil-causing, results.
While the "smash heads" do decently by themselves, if you block screw's second slopes, you block it's potential.

I suspect this is why I got such superior results to early testing, because everyone used capricorn by default, and that definitely obscures the slopes.
Apr. 05, 2011  6:29 PM
 
Cancer is too far out, and prevents too much of the slopes from being shown. I haven't tried Pisces as I don't see a use in buying it, but Unicorno has been providing some pretty decent results.
Apr. 05, 2011  6:37 PM
 
I might test it when I have time, but yeah, I'd suggest horogium as the next best alternative, as if you don't have it, you need to get basalt anyway, so yeah Tongue_out

I recall using unicorno originally, and that and capricorn were the wheels I judged screw by, until I saw it on pisces. I think it might still slightly obscure the secondary slopes. Screw doesn't have any real use for CW attack, so the normal logic of "USE SOMETHING BUMPY" isn't as applicable here. While the 3-sidedness would have better balance, do remember I'm using RF, and Horogium (though maybe a touch imbalanced, it's really nothing) is perfectly good for that Smile

Screw Cancer looks impressive when you're just playing free rounds with it, it's only upon testing that it's shortcomings became apparent, so be mindful of that (that's for everyone suggesting CW's, not just Evan).

Also, I do have most CW's, so I have looked through them. Giraffe was on my mind as a possibility, though I think it's still too thick at the edge, from memory.

And sorry everyone if I come off as being a grumpy old so-and-so who just wants to shoot down everyone else's ideas, I'm just trying to make sure screw gets the respect it deserves Smile I don't mean to be unfriendly.
Apr. 19, 2011  6:42 AM
 
If I dont access to either Pisces Hologium Unicorno CW Can I use the Pegasis clear and can someone compare test results with MF Screw Pegasis 90RF and MF Screw Pisces 90RF? No biased results I want to test to speak for themselves...
Apr. 19, 2011  7:01 AM
 
Pegasis gets in the way of the slopes, so it would be a bad choice. I don't have time to test every cw, but I've demonstrated that cw's that expose the slopes (pisces, horogium) are better than those that don't (everything else) already. Yeah, I only did it with gasher, but you can compare my results with those of people who used capricorne. Also, IMO unicorno is also a bad choice, as I explained in my last post.
Honestly, it's not hard to tell what will and won't work, other than the simple "if it's not pisces or horogium, it's not suitable", seeing as lots of people haven't grasped that, put the cw on. If parts of that cw near the slopes rise well above the slopes (particularly the "dip" slope) it's no good. Seeing as I've done this with every non-limited cw other than aries, virgo and orso, it's largely pointless (orso and aries won't work btw, and I don't think virgo will either), it's pointless, but if you won't take my word for pisces and horogium, go ahead.



Tbh, everyone should have basalt, and therefore horogium, as it's pretty much the best wheel for defense and stamina.
Apr. 19, 2011  7:10 AM
 
Standard set up

3 different people
3 different TT made MF Screw (Worn out / Semi-worn / Mint) Capricorne 90 MF (Worn out / Semi-worn / Mint)
TT Attack Stadium
Sliding shots (60 battles for each opposing bey)
Each person switched the bey used after 20 battles for a fair result

1. MF Screw (Worn out) 90 MF (Worn out) vs MF Screw (Semi-worn) 90 MF (Semi-worn)
Worn out : wins 38 (30 KO + 8 OS)
Semi-worn : wins 22 ( 20 KO + 2 OS)

2. MF Screw (Worn out) 90 MF (Worn out) vs MF Screw (Mint) 90 MF (Mint)
Worn out : wins 54 (45 KO + 9 OS)
Mint : wins 6 ( 6 KO)

3. MF Screw (Semi-worn) 90 MF (Semi-worn) vs MF Screw (Mint) 90 MF (Mint)
Semi-worn : wins 48 (35 KO + 13 OS)
Mint : wins 12 ( 12 KO)

Average Result:

MF Screw (Worn out) 90 MF (Worn out) - Winning Percentage : 51%
MF Screw (Semi-worn) 90 MF (Semi-worn) - Winning Percentage : 39%
MF Screw (Mint) 90 MF (Mint) - Winning Percentage : 10%

Wearing down the Screw wheel and Metal Flat is definitely a good thing.
Apr. 19, 2011  8:01 AM
 
H-uh, I found my mint MF to be better than my worn one, as it had WAY more stamina. But yeah, I don't have testing, that's just an observation (though it was pretty obvious).

Are you able to post a picture of at least the WORN parts, so I/we can see exactly what you mean?
Apr. 19, 2011  8:15 AM
 
sure thing.. will post the 3 MFs and 3 Screws either tonight or tomorrow for comparison.
Apr. 19, 2011  9:34 AM
 
@ th!nk believe me i would love to have have basalt horogium its that it costs too much atm and it hasnt come in toywiz yet but thanks for the explanation ill go trade my pegasis cw for the pisces one my friend has thanks alot!
Apr. 19, 2011  10:44 AM
 
Arvelas, have you tried Dimsum2u/AkirasDaddy, I recall it not being too pricey from them?
Uwik, much appreciated.
Apr. 19, 2011  4:19 PM
 
Here you go for comparison, as requested..

Apr. 19, 2011  4:55 PM
 
I did some MF and R²F comparison tests.

MF Screw Horogium 90R²F VS MF-H Earth Bull GB145CS
Standard Procedures
Screw Horogium Win Rate - 40% (4KOs)

MF Screw Horogium 90MF VS MF-H Earth Bull GB145CS
Standard Procedures
Screw Horogium Win Rate - 10% (1KO)

It seems that MF doesn't provide the speed that R²F does that produces those magnificant KOs. I'm sorry if this doesn't prove anything, or it's already been proven before. I just wanted to see if MF was a good substitute for RF/R²F on Screw.
Apr. 19, 2011  8:12 PM
 
Yeah, I like rf as it gives you the speed and a better movement pattern, and the grip Really helps.

Thanks for the pictures. Wow, that's one crazy worn wheel. I would've thought a mint screw would be better, but I guess the side parts intefere somehow. I am interested in seeing if the same results occur on rf, if you get the chance (no pressure, I know testing aint easy).
Also, woah at that mf. How long has that been used for? Dunno if it'd be legal, but it might be easier to get under the opponent at that height, so maybe that was part of it?
Apr. 19, 2011  9:22 PM
 
Oh yeah, th!nk, when you said that Screw was better than Pegasis, were you reffering to MF Pegasis 145RF or MF Pegasis 85RF? I think that the veterans decided that 85 was better on Pegasis.
Apr. 20, 2011  2:46 AM
 
85, though that's more my opinion from what I've seen than something I've tested, so don't take it as a definite fact (at least till I do comparative tests).
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