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Evil Cancer AD145TB VS. Evil Gasher AD145WD

EC: 10(All OS)
EG: 10(All OS)

Alternating Launches. Swapped parts at 10. When launching WD first TB would OS, but when launching TB first WD would OS, but by less rotations. TB > WD
Why Evil? Its never really had any use. I suppose it's OK though?
I didn't have any duplicate stamina Metal wheels. It should be for a mirror match-up.
Um... I hope so. Though I do prefer WD over TB. I will test TB against WD in a Burn mirror match-up.
Hate to be a wet blanket, but as far as I know TB isn't considered a competitive tip for 145 height stamina in Standard, so for it to go on there for that, it would require multiple members testing etc etc. We're talking about it on the taller tracks right now (which wouldn't require extensive testing seeing as the fact it works in standard counts for a lot).

Also, what condition is your WD in? Keep in mind that in my experience, a near-mint or mint FS will outspin a mildly worn D (I really need to sit down and do 20 rounds of this to make a point, but to stop people taking it the wrong way I'd have to do tests against a near-mint D, and right now I only have one which I'm saving for possible tournament use), so it can be a pretty major thing.

Oh, I don't know if I mentioned it in my post, but 160PD also needs looking into seeing as that was also a 4d-era thing that seemed very specific as to what it worked with, and sadly my hopes of purchasing one were dashed with the breakage of my second Earth Wheel since limited started yesterday, so if anyone wants to look into that (I mean, I figure Ingulit will get to it eventually but yeah).

Oh, right, always forget Northern Hemisphere school years don't line up with calendar years. That's fine haha, it may already be 2014 here but my sleeping patterns are pretty out of whack so I'll be around for a while yet.
It wasn't mint but it wasn't worn either. It still had a good point to it. Would you like me to do 230 tests(With 230D)? Maybe not a mirror-match as weil?
(Dec. 31, 2013  6:58 PM)Kaizer Wrote: [ -> ]It wasn't mint but it wasn't worn either. It still had a good point to it. Would you like me to do 230 tests(With 230D)? Maybe not a mirror-match as weil?

My D's all have good points to them haha, it's quite subtle honestly.

If your D is near mint that would be good (mirror match on 230), but I'd still kinda want to see someone test it with two Earths or something like that, seeing as TB probably handles Killer's slight recoil better than D. I am sorry if this sounds ungrateful, but I'm a little wary because of that 145 result that Killer/Evil might be interfering with the results or something vs what we'd see with more standard stamina wheels.
Alright, I have some testing here for SWD vs. WD:

Quote:Earth Cancer AD145SWD vs. Earth Cancer AD145WD
Beys alternated launching first, parts swapped, yadda yadda yadda...
Earth Cancer AD145SWD: wins, 5/20 (all OS)
Earth cancer AD145WD: wins, 15/29 (all OS)
Earth Cancer AD145SWD win rate: 25%

Er... Yah. I reeeeeaaally don't like SWD. XD The only reason I think it won at all is because one of the part sets was vastly superior to the other. Its late-game performance was painful to watch, and even the few wins it pulled off in the first half when it was launched first were only by a couple wobbly, floor-scraping rotations. WD's wins were all super clean.

Has anyone else gotten different results? 'Cause if there are more I would really like to see them. Our experiences seem conflicting. Confused

As for the list of notes and such...

Cosmic is trash on LTAC. I'm just gonna come right out and say it. XD It has like no upper smash at all. It works amazing on R145, but using it on 105- is just a bad idea IMO. It also does amazing on CH120, though TR145 is a bit too lacking in terms of smash for my taste.

For Tracks on Wyvang, I'd go for GB/H145. I've tried them both and they work pretty well. I have also looked into Wyvang LTAC briefly, and it,s impressed me. Someone should formally test that.

As for Beat LTAC, I've seen some nice results from Leone19. I might actually have to try this out right now...


Quote:Cosmic Unicorn II R145R2F vs. Earth Aquario 85RSF
Cosmic launched first on all launches.
Cosmic: wins, 11/20 (All KO)
Earth: wins, 9/20 (2 KO, 7 KO)
Cosmic Unicorno II R145R2F win crate: 55%

Yerp. Dat's good old' Cosmic for ya.

Quote:Beat Byxis 90R2F vs. Earth Aquario 85RSF
Beat launched first on all launches.
Beat: wins, 7/20 (All KO)
Earth: wins, 13/20 (1 KO, 12 OS)
Beat By is 90R2F win rate: 35%

Er... Yah. This is literally the only testing I've ever done with this, so I'm hesitant to give my opinion, but so far I'm personally not too crazy about it. Again, very little experience. This isn't much to go on compared to the testing that's been done already.

I have tested Nightmare for Anti-Attack, and it's actually pretty darn good. Once we get a good amount of formal testing I think we'll see some very promising numbers. I haven't tried it that much, but enough to expect decent results.

I agree that Zero-G wheels are relatively under tested ATM. Going by how each does in Standard, I think we can narrow down Wyvang, Bahamdia, and Balro as priorities for testing. I've tested them all briefly, and they seem promising. They could very potentially be added later.

As for Zero-G Defense, I am horribly unimpressed with it, especially with Reviser. The thing can only spin for like 30 seconds. Not only is it easier to KO than your average Defense type, but it has serious trouble on top of that with out-spinning opposing attackers. I really don't like it at all. Killerken's shape is just too recoily to work without the extra 30 grams you get out of a Synchrom. Overall, I haven't had a very good experience with them.

Sorry I didn't go into more detail, but I have to type this with a really annoying touch keyboard. XD
Now you mention it, SWD was also tested only on heavier wheels (my bad for forgetting that), so it should be taken down pending further testing I guess.

I just want to say I really like R145 on Wyvang. It helps rebalance it a lot if you orient it right from what I've tried, and the extra weight is always a good thing - Wyvang has plenty of smash on the bottom anyhow so I find H145 completely unnecessary and as I've mentioned before, GB145 has only served to worsen imbalances for me in the past.
Bahamdia is very promising IMO, I am dying to get my hands on a set of MSF-H's to see if they seal the deal for it - I mentioned a combo to Coach yesterday as he was looking into alternatives to Wyvang, dunno if he tried it but yeah.
Balro seems *good* but it also seems like I really need to get an MSF-H to figure out exactly how good.

EDIT: After playing around with them some more, Wyvang and Bahamdia are an interesting pair. Wyvang has a tonne of power against lower things (presumably taller things if you use chrome up, but with a good crystal wheel you shouldn't need to because of Wyvang's weight) but it doesn't seem to do so great side-on. On the other hand, Bahamdia has a crazy amount of smash side-on, but doesn't seem to do anything to lower opponents (and it needs a heavy track because of how light it is). Both things could possibly be improved significantly by MSF-H so I still have high hopes (particularly for Bahamdia), but yeah. (End of Edit)

Yeah, I'm with you on Killerken, I think I mentioned I had some mild success with it for Attack of all things haha. Perhaps Genbull might be worth looking into just because its very edge is quite round and then a Crystal Wheel might let it absorb hits if it's well balanced enough overall? As for Reviser, damn that's a shame, was hoping MSF-H would make the difference there.

Nightmare Anti Attack: It's very interesting and quite versatile, especially if you choose a smaller CW like Horogium so it can use its upward smash, but I'm not sure if it's good enough defensively to earn a spot - it gets hurt real bad by hits from above or below as a defense wheel, so I don't know if it'll be good enough.

Thanks for your thoughts and testing. I appreciate how hard it is to work with touch keyboards haha.
(Dec. 30, 2013  2:02 PM)Galaxy Blade Wrote: [ -> ]The moment you've all been waiting for. Thanks to 'Th!nk' for helping with this an lot. Its here, the list!! NOTE: THE LIST IS JUST A SKETCH, A DRAFT AT THIS POINT. ITS SOMETHING TO WORK ON. NOT A CC LIST!

MF-H Gravity Perseus (ATK>DEF, Counter Mode) 85/90/CH120/R145/TR145 RF/R2F/LRF
MF-H Beat Byxis/Lynx/ 90/CH120/GB145/H145/R145 RF/R2F
MF-H Cosmic Kerbecs/Unicorno II CH120/R145/TH170 RF/R2F
MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85/90/CH120/H145/R145 RF/LRF
MSF-H Dark Knight/Gladiator/Samurai Wyvang CH120/GB145/H145/R145 RF/R2F/LRF
MF-H Pegasis 85/CH120/R145 RF/R2F


MF-H Bakushin Leone 90 RSF/RF
MF-H Earth Bull/Aquario/Sagittario II/Hades/Cygnus 85/90/GB145/TH170/230 RSF/RF
MF-H Libra 90/GB145 RSF/RF


(MF-L) Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145/TH170 EWD/WD/SWD/SD
Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades TH170/230 D/WD/SD
(MF-L) Earth Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 85/90/W145 EWD/WD/SWD/D/SD
Burn Bull/Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 85/90/W145 EWD/WD/SWD/D/SD
(MF-L) Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145/TH170 EWD/WD/SWD/SD
(MF-L) Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades TH170/230 D/MB/WD/SD


(MF-M) Gravity Perseus (Stamina) CH120 EWD
(MF-M) Gravity Perseus (Stamina) B: D
(MF-M) Gravity Perseus (Stamina) F230CF/GCF
(MF-M) Meteo L-Drago CH120 EWD
(MF-M) Meteo L-Drago B: D
(MF-M) Meteo L-Drago F230CF/GCF

MF-H Libra CH120/GB145/R145 RF
Just done some changes in black of what I think needs on.
Why is wd an option on some 230 customs?
I believe WD can out-spin D on 230. It's just not that well balanced. But it should do as a back up.
The why not EWD also? It has better stamina than wd.

EDIT: why not PD too?
Like we said it's a Draft. We might need testing to prove that.
Theif Phoenic R145/H145 still need more testing?
Would love some help if other members want to add to the thread.
Eh, MF-L on stamina was something tested fairly heavily back in the day and found to be a failure... When you think about where the weight you're adding is, it should be obvious though, it is right near the centre, which is bad for stamina - and it's not so centred that something else couldn't improve your RPM better. At most it might work on some setups that need just that amount of weight in their center but aside from that it really makes no sense.

Also, you may as well remove SWD wherever it appears on that list as testing showed it isn't working and it's only there because I forgot it hadn't been tested on lighter wheels.

Also remove H145 from wyvang as it seems to have at least the potential to allow ridiculous recoil by exposing a particular point on wyvang, and as such will need testing to see if it's worthwhile or not/how common this is.

Disagree on 90 on earth for defense, makes it way easier to get under for LTAC.

Dunno about R145 on Beat, it doesn't make much sense given the weight distribution and given beat has so little ability to do anything to lower opponents, H145 seems like a better choice in general to me.

: I would like to see a little more testing, but if it's not done by the time I get an MSF-H I'll do it myself because that combo is right up my alley, so don't sweat it. Personally from trying it without an MSF-H I'm already pretty impressed so it should be a shoe in, but must be careful etc etc.

King: EWD is really bad on 230, like it gets outspun by a lot of other tips, presumably due to the tip shape meaning poorer stability or something, IDK.
As for WD on 230, in my experience it outspins D by a good margin and D is only used for less wobbling to prevent vulnerability vs lower opponents, I think we were overzealous in removing it at all, but perhaps that opinion is clouding my judgement...
Hey, what about Earth/Duo/Burn/Scythe SR200PD?
Did you really have to quote that SGMS? To add one combo
Edited my post. But from mine and GB's tests, it seems tier worthy, this is deveopmental.
Not nearly enough testing on it yet, needs to be tested against the full range of height matchups that consist basic stamina testing by at least a couple of users as per usual for stamina candidates. The list is in development but the combos that go on it should not be.
Haha, I just looked up the MF-L after I posted it.

As for the others, I did do some testing and it didn't do that bad. 90 on Earth wasn't to bad. Plus it could be used seen as there's only one track and two could really help that.

EDIT: Th!nk. This is what I think.

Here's some other stuff I think we need to think about:

MSF-H Theif Phoenic R145/H145 R2F (Crystal Up Mode)

It seems to do OK, but I think a little more testing would do.
@th!nk: I actually did some testing with MF-L on Phantom, and Phantom Cancer W145WD's stamina is seriously increased when using MF-L as opposed to any other kind of face. It works very well on Duo SR200TB as well.

Of course, I'm assuming the testing you referred to was done with lighter wheels, which totally legitimize them in this particular situation, but conclusively MF-L isn't necessarily defective on all Stamina combos.

As for the addition of 90 for LTDC, I like it. It doesn't seem to give much of a disadvantage against LTAC if any (and that was using Vulcan, which hits lower than most things), and it can help with scraping against taller combos (notably Cosmic Attack types), but I haven't done too much testing with it, so I'll try to withhold my suggestions for now.
MF-F always worked much better than MF-L on phantom for me and there's still no physical reason why MF-L should improve stamina or stamina performance. You say MF-M hurts stamina but MF-L is heavier and in the scheme of a beyblade not much further from the centre.

Also no vulcan has no overhang so it's not a good thing for assessing earth 90 against.
From what I've heard, the outward weight distribution adds stamina but I personally dont understand that. I'd like to know though.
(Jan. 03, 2014  9:01 AM)Tri Wrote: [ -> ]From what I've heard, the outward weight distribution adds stamina but I personally dont understand that. I'd like to know though.

The thing is that it's not outward. That weight is basically right in the centre of the beyblade. The idea that it is outward is misconception.
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