World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade General

Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game

Poll: What should be done about F230?

Ban it altogether
15.79%
15
Ban it to some extent
34.74%
33
Leave it alone
49.47%
47
Total: 100% 95 vote(s)
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  • Show Results
Dec. 02, 2013  4:37 AM
 
My EWD is terrible, would you be okay with WD or W2D?
Dec. 02, 2013  4:41 AM
 
(Dec. 02, 2013  4:37 AM)DrPepsidew Wrote: My EWD is terrible, would you be okay with WD or W2D?

For mostly comparable results, could you use W2D?

Thanks. Grin
Dec. 03, 2013  1:59 AM
 
I like the results. Try more benchmarks.
Dec. 03, 2013  2:19 AM
 
Okay I may have found a good combo, it is MSF-H Genbull Dragooon CH120W2D.
Beat everything I threw at it.

Before judging this just look at the tests.
Spoiler (Click to View)

Okay, this is not just AZL's combo. I've had this combo since Saturday, go ahead and ask Drgaon King.
Dec. 03, 2013  2:22 AM
 
Those are some good results, but its customary to redo ties, not just post how many there were.
Dec. 03, 2013  2:24 AM
 
Great combo Kyler!

I'm surprised to see that it could beat Duo Gasher F230CF/GCF much better than it beats Genbull Dragooon F230CF/GCF. I really like the idea of this combo, I shall try it out myself. How would EWD do?

You should have made a thread for it haha.
Dec. 03, 2013  2:24 AM
 
(Dec. 03, 2013  2:19 AM)Kyler_the best Wrote: Okay I may have found a good combo, it is MSF-H Genbull Dragooon CH120W2D.
Beat everything I threw at it.

Before judging this just look at the tests.
Spoiler (Click to View)

Okay, this is not just AZL's combo. I've had this combo since Saturday, go ahead and ask Drgaon King.
From my opinion it is honestly an average combo against Dragooon F230CF/GCF. I mean 12-8 isn't bad, but it isn't the best.
Dec. 03, 2013  2:27 AM
 
He had a breakthrough here (it may not get 20 wins, but it is still doing good) we still need to see how it does against more top tiers though


P.S. he's been testing this all weekend lol
Dec. 03, 2013  2:29 AM
 
Tri instead of re-doing them I just skipped them and tested again, so basically it is kind of re-doing them.

LMAO, the sway killed W2D, but it was able to hold on and either OS or Sway KO Reviser Dragooon in the process.

RagerBlade how well it did against Duo F230 totally makes up for it, like some combos can only counter 1 F230 variant and lose to another, whereas my combo can counter a F230 variant and beat another one, AND still beat other combos.

Edit: I'll try to get more tests after the Saints game. It did awesome against E230MB when I did a few practice tests.
Dec. 03, 2013  2:30 AM
 
(Dec. 03, 2013  2:24 AM)RagerBlade Wrote:
(Dec. 03, 2013  2:19 AM)Kyler_the best Wrote: Okay I may have found a good combo, it is MSF-H Genbull Dragooon CH120W2D.
Beat everything I threw at it.

Before judging this just look at the tests.
Spoiler (Click to View)

Okay, this is not just AZL's combo. I've had this combo since Saturday, go ahead and ask Drgaon King.
From my opinion it is honestly an average combo against Dragooon F230CF/GCF. I mean 12-8 isn't bad, but it isn't the best.

You can't really say it's nothing special, since it's pretty much the best we got if the tests are accurate. We pretty much have nothing that counters both right and left spin F230CF/GCF.

Surprised to see you use W2D, why not WD or EWD?
Dec. 03, 2013  2:33 AM
 
I actually didn't test those, lol, I felt W2D was better all-around and better than WD, plus my EWD isn't in the best condition.

I did test with MB, TB, BWD, etc. BWD had bad balance, TB was okay, but was only getting ties, so... MB was far too inconsistent.
Dec. 03, 2013  2:34 AM
 
(Dec. 03, 2013  2:33 AM)Kyler_the best Wrote: I actually didn't test those, lol, I felt W2D was better all-around and better than WD, plus my EWD isn't in the best condition.

I did test with MB, TB, BWD, etc. BWD had bad balance, TB was okay, but was only getting ties, so... MB was far too inconsistent.

Hmm. Could you try it with WD, just to compare results? Tongue_out
Dec. 03, 2013  2:36 AM
 
Sure, later though. BTW you'll need to weak launch on everything except RD SA165BWD, RD F230CF, and DG SR200TB.
Dec. 03, 2013  2:41 AM
 
I honestly don't think it should be banned. If it does so well, then that gives inspiration for bladers to match up the combo(s) that can, or at least come close to defeating it. It's that same motive that got me into blading in the first place. Creating customs from parts that weren't always seen as useful, or combos that could match near to a very successful one.
Dec. 03, 2013  2:43 AM
 
That's the thing, there's hardly anything that can beat it while standing it's ground against the rest of the metagame.
Dec. 03, 2013  2:44 AM
 
(Dec. 03, 2013  2:36 AM)Kyler_the best Wrote: Sure, later though. BTW you'll need to weak launch on everything except RD SA165BWD, RD F230CF, and DG SR200TB.
I am glad for you testing it against W2D. It shows you believe in it's potential. Besides the point. This combo is pretty nice. Keep up the tests and especially try WD.
Dec. 03, 2013  2:49 AM
 
Yeah, at first glance you'd think it would just be okay, but then I got thinking about it and I saw your testing and I figured why not.
Dec. 03, 2013  2:52 AM
 
(Dec. 03, 2013  2:24 AM)LMAO Wrote: Great combo Kyler!

I'm surprised to see that it could beat Duo Gasher F230CF/GCF much better than it beats Genbull Dragooon F230CF/GCF. I really like the idea of this combo, I shall try it out myself. How would EWD do?

You should have made a thread for it haha.
I Thought You Already Knew About Duo_F230CF/GCF Beating Genbull Dragoon :s Remember Me Losing Against Valentin At Dir En Bey? I Was Using Genbull Dragoon F230CF And He Was Using Duo_F230CF. If I Could Recall It Was Either JesseObre Or You Judging That Match Smile
EDIT: Please Forget I Posted This, I Didn't Read The Page Before This One Smile
Dec. 03, 2013  3:00 AM
 
(Dec. 03, 2013  2:52 AM)MidnightLWBO Wrote:
(Dec. 03, 2013  2:24 AM)LMAO Wrote: Great combo Kyler!

I'm surprised to see that it could beat Duo Gasher F230CF/GCF much better than it beats Genbull Dragooon F230CF/GCF. I really like the idea of this combo, I shall try it out myself. How would EWD do?

You should have made a thread for it haha.
I Thought You Already Knew About Duo_F230CF/GCF Beating Genbull Dragoon :s Remember Me Losing Against Valentin At Dir En Bey? I Was Using Genbull Dragoon F230CF And He Was Using Duo_F230CF. If I Could Recall It Was Either JesseObre Or You Judging That Match Smile

I was talking about Genbull Dragooon CH120W2D beating Duo F230CF/GCF, not Genbull Dragooon F230CF/GCF haha.

Sorry to get off-topic, but I believed Jesse judged that match.
Dec. 03, 2013  3:08 AM
 
(Dec. 03, 2013  3:00 AM)LMAO Wrote:
(Dec. 03, 2013  2:52 AM)MidnightLWBO Wrote:
(Dec. 03, 2013  2:24 AM)LMAO Wrote: Great combo Kyler!

I'm surprised to see that it could beat Duo Gasher F230CF/GCF much better than it beats Genbull Dragooon F230CF/GCF. I really like the idea of this combo, I shall try it out myself. How would EWD do?

You should have made a thread for it haha.
I Thought You Already Knew About Duo_F230CF/GCF Beating Genbull Dragoon :s Remember Me Losing Against Valentin At Dir En Bey? I Was Using Genbull Dragoon F230CF And He Was Using Duo_F230CF. If I Could Recall It Was Either JesseObre Or You Judging That Match Smile

I was talking about Genbull Dragooon CH120W2D beating Duo F230CF/GCF, not Genbull Dragooon F230CF/GCF haha.

Sorry to get off-topic, but I believed Jesse judged that match.
Oh Ok, Thank You For Telling Me LMAO Smile I'll Be Sure To Use That Combo A Lot Next Tournament Tongue_out (If It Isn't Pre-4D Haha.) Thinking About It Now I'm Pretty Sure It Was Jesse Juding Smile
Now, Back On Topic Grin
Dec. 03, 2013  4:13 AM
 
MF Duo Leone DF105 W2D VS Wyvang^2 AD145 R2F
DL: 10% (1 OS, 1 KO)
WW: 90% (18 KO)

VS Genbull^2 E230 (Upper) MB
GG: 100% (All OS)

VS Genbull^2 SR200 TB
GG: 100% (ALL OS)
Dec. 03, 2013  5:13 AM
 
Alright, to everyone suggesting Dragooon SA165MB as a counter in Zero-G:

Genbull Dragooon F230CF vs. Killerken Dragooon SA165MB
Dragooon F230 banked. MB launched first on all launches.
Dragooon F230: wins, 9/10 (All OS)
Dragooon SA165: wins, 1/10 (1 OS)
Genbull Dragooon F230CF win rate: 90%

It's not hard to beat at all. You just need to launch it right. Saying Dragooon SA165MB can beat Dragooon F230 is like saying Duo Cygnus 160PD can beat MF-H Flash Orion W145MF. It's true, but only if your launch is terrible.

Also, by the way:

(Dec. 02, 2013  12:14 AM)Time Wrote: Unless I'm missing it, Dragooon SA165 MB is nearly as viable against the rest of the meta as any spin-equalization combo. What is that you guys think just destroys it? By being on MB it practically eliminates sway attack, has decent stamina (obviously enough to OS F230 CF stuff) and SA165 is THEE LAD track. Granted, MB has nowhere near the precession of EWD or BWD, but it will still OS a ton of stuff in spin-equalizing matches. So, unless you guys are saying the rarely used in Zero-G smash attack is a huge problem, I'm missing your point.

Oh my gosh... I'm about to laugh my head off. Dragooon SA165MB is absolute junk against just about everything. Genbull/Duo SR200/SA165TB destroy it, and so does any right-spin Sway Attack custom. Left-spin Sway Attack can beat it easily as well if you just bank it. MB's balance/precession is so horrendous that, unless one can avoid metal-to-metal contact, you'll lose to just about anything via OS in Zero-G.

Killerken Dragooon SA165MB vs. Phantom Cancer 230SD
Beys alternated launching first.
Dragooon: wins, 0/10
Cancer: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Killerken Dragooon SA165MB win rate: 0%

...Even left-spin Attack types can OS this thing. It's actually pretty pathetic if you think about it. Like, seriously pathetic. The thing has zero spin-equalization ability.

I'm sorry, but this thing really just doesn't work. Not that it was necessarily a bad idea per say, but, you know, it just, loses. Confused


About Genbull Dragooon CH120W2D:

Genbull Dragooon F230GCF vs. Genbull Dragooon CH120W2D
Dragooon CH120 launched first on all lauches. Dragooon F230 launched to sway KO.
Dragooon F230: wins, 10/10 (All SKO)
Dragooon CH120: wins, 0/10
Genbull Dragooon F230GCF win rate: 100%

Now, I'm assuming this was meant for BB-10. If it was, well, heheh, sorry 'bout that. XD I would assume it would work very well in BB-10. Although, IMO EWD would work a bit better. It's basically Meteo L-Drago CH120EWD, but Synchrom! Why didn't anyone think of that before...
Dec. 03, 2013  5:24 AM
 
It was for Zero-G, but it was to be expected because of GCF's sway.

Darn, I pretty much did thise test for nothing if EWD really would work better.

Can you test vs. Duo F230 CF and/or GCF vs. MSF-H Genbull Dragooon CH120EWD?
Dec. 03, 2013  6:30 AM
 
@theblackdragon: I don't see how Dragooon SA165MB would win against
Dragooon F230CF/GCF because Dragooon has atrocious balance and MB makes it worse.

Correct me if i'm wrong though, but why dont you try Revizer^2 BGrin?
Might just work........
Dec. 03, 2013  2:33 PM
 
That's because it didn't win against Dragooon F230...

EWD works so much better...

Tests:
Spoiler (Click to View)

Unfortunately, I can't do hardly nay more tests, because my EWD is going aggro and losing stamina. I'd appreciate testing from other users though.
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