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Valtryek + Variable Testing & Discussion

Oct. 10, 2016  11:56 PM
 
Valtryek + Variable Testing & Discussion

After seeing Bey Brad mention his success with Valtryek Heavy Variable in testing, I took it upon myself to do some testing of my own before the most recent Toronto tournament, BLADE LIKE A GIRL. I was very impressed with how it performed against everything, so I took it into that event with confidence and ended up placing second, due in part to my use of Valtryek Knuckle Variable. It seemed to KO or Burst Finish almost anything thrown up against it throughout the event.

As a result of this, myself, 1234beyblade, and Mitsu decided to conduct some recorded testing of our own.

Test Information

DETAILS
Spoiler (Click to View)

LEGEND
Spoiler (Click to View)

Test Results - Kei

Valtryek Knuckle Variable vs. Wyvern Heavy Revolve
Valtryek Knuckle Variable: 7 Wins (5 BF, 2 KO)
Wyvern Heavy Revolve 3 Wins (1 BF, 2 KO)
Valtryek Win Percentage: 70%

Round by Round Results (Click to View)

No competition whatsoever. Wyvern got thrashed in pretty much every way possible. Note that none of Wyvern’s three wins were via OS. Generally, Valtryek either won or unluckily recoiled out of the stadium after a hit.

Valtryek Knuckle Variable vs. Dark Deathscyther Spread Defense
Valtryek Knuckle Variable: 6 Wins (4 BF, 2 KO)
Dark Deathscyther Spread Defense: 4 Wins (1 KO, 3 OS)
Valtryek Win Percentage: 60%

Round by Round Results (Click to View)

This is one of the most impressive results for me given that up until now, I haven’t found any Attack type that can get anything close to consistent results against Dark Deathscyther. In some ways, it felt insurmountable before to Burst Finish this Layer, but with Valtryek and Variable, it’s a much less scary proposition to go up against it. At BLADE LIKE A GIRL, I played 1234beyblade’s D2SD in the finals and lost only 3-2 (both Valtryek wins were BFs), which I felt was a great accomplishment given how invincible it sort of felt before.

Valtryek Knuckle Variable vs. Odin Heavy Defense
Valtryek Knuckle Variable: 5 Wins (5 KO)
Odin Heavy Defense: 5 Wins (1 BF, 4 KO)
Valtryek Win Percentage: 50%
2 Draws (2 DBF)

Round by Round Results (Click to View)

Really respectable results from Valtryek here. These tests reminded me why we banned Odin in the first place; it was able to take massive hits from Valtryek and somehow remain inside the stadium and not burst at all. It was too much sometimes and Valtryek was able to KO it, but among all of the combos I tested it against, OHD was definitely the best combo against it.

Compared to all of the other combos I tested, OHD did not lose via Burst Finish even once, but instead it was KOed more than any other combo I tested. To me, this spoke to both the burst resistance and general great defensive power of OHD, and to Valtryek's ability to win however it needs to win against any Layer, whether that be Burst Finish or KO.

For me personally, I’m not sure if this sways me back towards wanting to keep Odin banned since maybe there are other Layers (like V2?) that can perform better against it, but it made me question my stance a bit. But it’s a really complicated issue in general … as you’ll see with Mitsu and 1234beyblade’s results below.

Valtryek Knuckle Variable vs. Deathscyther Gravity Yielding
Valtryek Knuckle Variable: 7 Wins (5 BF, 2 KO)
Deathscyther Gravity Yielding: 3 Wins (3 OS)
Valtryek Win Percentage: 70%
1 Draw (1 DBF)

Round by Round Results (Click to View)

In 1234beyblade’s testing he mentioned that DGY was a good counter to Valtryek Variable because of the forces being distributed not on the teeth, but elsewhere on the Layer when you combine it with the banking strategy.

I’m not quite clear on what difference Yielding makes in comparison to Revolve, but either way, in my tests VKV had very few issues with defeating DGY by Burst or KO even with that banking strategy. I didn’t even bother testing Deathscyther on Revolve after this because based on my initial unrecorded testing, experience at BLADE LIKE A GIRL, and the results of DGY, I knew my VKV didn’t have issues bursting or KOing Deathscyther in general. And in general, we all know Valkyrie/Valtryek is a counter to Deathscyther anyways.

Valtryek Knuckle Variable vs. Wyvern Down Bite
Valtryek Knuckle Variable: 6 Wins (4 BF, 2 KO)
Wyvern Down Bite: 4 Wins (2 KO, 2 OS)
Valtryek Win Percentage: 60%

Round by Round Results (Click to View)

This was an interesting match-up. 1234beyblade had tested VHV against a couple Bite-based Defense combos in his video, and I decided to use WDB as mine. More than anything, it was the movement of Bite that allowed Wyvern to win a handful of rounds, and the rubber of Bite helped to allow WDB to stand its ground on a few occasions.

Ultimately however, Valtryek still had a good shot at winning and a change in launch technique from banking to something closer to a straight shot once you become aware of the movement of Bite makes it a bit easier to deal with. I’d be interesting to try out some other Layers (like Baldur) on Down and Bite to see how they fare in the future, though.


Test Results - 1234beyblade


This is where things get even more interesting. After watching this video, you'll be able to have seen how 1234beyblade's results with Valtryek Heavy Variable are basically the opposite of mine ... In my 50 rounds of testing, I had just two self-bursts by Valtryek compared to the probably dozens in 1234beyblade's video. Maybe the Disk choice has something to do with this (Heavy vs. Knuckle), but more than likely the real culprit behind this may in large part be the difference in "tightness" of our combos.

The Valtryek Knuckle Variable I have been using is very snug when assembled, as are several of the other Disks I tried. However, I have noticed when testing other Disks in my collection, they are looser, so I can understand why 1234beyblade may not have been able to find a combination of parts that were as tight as mine were. I'm honestly not sure how to explain the reasoning for this beyond the potential for manufacturing variances, but thus far it seems to have a great effect on how well Valtryek Variable performs.

I will try to conduct some more tests in the next week or two once I have a second Hasbro Variable. Mine isn't anywhere close to wearing down, but I want to make sure I have a good one for the tournament next weekend.


Test Results - Mitsu

Mitsu Wrote:Valtryek Knuckle Variable vs. Neptune Gravity Revolve
Valtryek Knuckle Variable: 6 Wins (4 KO, 2 BF)
Neptune Gravity Revolve: 4 Wins (4 BF)
Valtryek Win Percentage: 60%
Neptune Average Clicks Lost: 2

Valtryek Knuckle Variable vs. Odin Heavy Defense
Valtryek Knuckle Variable: 3 Wins (2 KO, 1 BF)
Odin Heavy Defense: 7 Wins (5 BF, 2 OS)
Valtryek Win Percentage: 30%
Odin Average Clicks Lost: 2.3

Valtryek Knuckle Variable vs. Kaiser Kerbeus Armed Claw
Valtryek Knuckle Variable: 7 Wins (5 BF, 1 KO, 1 OS)
Kaiser Kerbeus Armed Claw: 3 Wins (3 BF)
Valtryek Win Percentage: 70%
Kaiser Kerbeus Average Clicks Lost: 2.6

Valtryek Knuckle Variable vs. Dark Deathscyther Spread Defense
Valtryek Knuckle Variable: 2 Wins (2 KO)
Dark Deathscyther Spread Defense: 8 Wins (3 BF, 5 OS)
Valtryek Win Percentage: 20%
Dark Deathscyther Average Clicks Lost: 1

Valtryek Knuckle Variable vs. Deathscyther Gravity Revolve
Valtryek Knuckle Variable: 3 Wins (1 BF, 2 KO)
Deathscyther Gravity Revolve: 7 Wins (7 BF)
Valtryek Win Percentage: 30%
Deathscyther Average Clicks Lost: 1.8

Valtryek Knuckle Variable vs. Wyvern Heavy Revolve
Valtryek Knuckle Variable: 5 Wins (4 KO, 1 BF)
Wyvern Heavy Revolve: 5 Wins (3 BF, 1 OS, 1 KO)
Valtryek Win Percentage: 50%
Wyvern Average Clicks Lost: 2

I'll let Mitsu speak to his own results, but from what I can observe they appear to be somewhere between what I experienced and what 1234beyblade experienced depending on the match-up ... which might say something about how important the fit for your parts is. However, he also admitted to me that he might not be as skilled or well-versed with Attack types as perhaps 1234beyblade and myself are, so that is worth keeping in mind as well.

Speaking from my experience personally, Valtryek Knuckle Variable is the most exciting and powerful combination to come along for Beyblade Burst in a long time. It isn't invincible, but unlike recent months where things like Dark Deathscyther felt unburstable with Attack, I feel like I have a significant chance now with VKV against it and literally anything else, which is a very empowering.

I encourage everyone who has the parts currently to please let us know what you think after testing it for yourself! I'd be very interested to hear how tight your combos are (and with which Disks) to see if we can identify any concrete answers or trends.
Oct. 11, 2016  2:17 AM
 
Awesome test Kei, 1234beyblade and Mitsu!!

Thanks alot for test. I will also try to get some hasbro burst and try it too.
Oct. 11, 2016  2:45 AM
 
This makes me really interested to see how hasbro V2KV works out with those more aggressive contact points, if does turn out to be the knuckle disk holding everything in place
Oct. 11, 2016  2:48 AM
 
BTW. Kei, can you try using this with Magnum? It has a plastic part on top which make it thinker. Maybe it will hold Valtreks (or Valty lol) tighter? Its also 3 sided like Valty
Oct. 11, 2016  3:00 AM
 
Really glad I was able to help with this, thanks for reaching out to me, Kei! Smile

In regards to my tests, it's obviously really hard to say whether myself not being such a well-versed attack player—as I had mentioned I was—really effected the results. This was only ten rounds of testings and obviously results with attack do vary.

To add, there were certain matches where, yes, Deathscyther and Odin did lose 2-3 clicks. Certain matches could have landed in their favor. 3-7 scores didn't mean much in my mind.

Quote:It isn't invincible, but unlike recent months where things like Dark Deathscyther felt unburstable with Attack, I feel like I have a significant chance now with VKV against it and literally anything else, which is a very empowering.

As we've noticed, the tightness between Valtryek + Variable combos vary and again, results with attack do differ between the user. 6-4 isn't necessarily a bad score against Dark Deathscyther Spread Defense, but it's nothing super special, either. In my mind, it's nothing that should drastically change the idea of a potential Dark Deathscyther ban.
Oct. 11, 2016  3:06 AM
 
(Oct. 11, 2016  3:00 AM)Mitsu Wrote: In my mind, it's nothing that should drastically change the idea of a potential Dark Deathscyther ban.

Dark Deathscyther is a defense/stamina hybrid that can be outspun. Why does it need to be banned because attack can only beat it sixty percent of the time?

I feel like everyone has gotten real trigger-happy on banning stuff as soon as it rises to the top lately, even though this is just part of how Beyblade goes. It's only been out for a few months even. Let it have its time. Besides, there's no point in unbanning Odin just to ban something that performs pretty similarly.
Oct. 11, 2016  3:31 AM
 
(Oct. 11, 2016  3:00 AM)Mitsu Wrote: As we've noticed, the tightness between Valtryek + Variable combos vary and again, results with attack do differ between the user. 6-4 isn't necessarily a bad score against Dark Deathscyther Spread Defense, but it's nothing super special, either. In my mind, it's nothing that should drastically change the idea of a potential Dark Deathscyther ban.

But has there been any formal test results posted elsewhere that show an Attack type achieving a win percentage as high as 60% against D2? I don't believe so, and in my experience with informal testing I haven't found much success with anything until now with Valtryek. And remember, like you were saying about your results, this was only 10 rounds as well; the results say 6-4, but my feeling with the combo when using and watching it was greater than this small sample size suggests.

Next time I do tests, I'll try to do some benchmarks for Attack types versus D2 (open to suggestions for this).
Oct. 11, 2016  3:34 AM
 
You should try Minoborous Knuckle Xtreme against any D2 combo, it absolutely rekt it in my informal tests.
Oct. 11, 2016  3:42 AM
 
(Oct. 11, 2016  3:34 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: You should try Minoborous Knuckle Xtreme against any D2 combo, it absolutely rekt it in my informal tests.

Never wanted something to be this true in my life
Oct. 11, 2016  3:54 AM
 
@[Bey Brad], it would be great if you could post more about your experience with VHV!

(Oct. 11, 2016  3:34 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: You should try Minoborous Knuckle Xtreme against any D2 combo, it absolutely rekt it in my informal tests.

Yeah, actually I can't remember if I tested Minoboros on Xtreme against it, but I do remember a weird combo like MGO doing decently against D2 hahaha. Didn't seem consistent enough at the time, but I'll try out Xtreme!
Oct. 11, 2016  3:55 AM
 
(Oct. 11, 2016  3:54 AM)Kei Wrote: @[Bey Brad], it would be great if you could post more about your experience with VHV!

I had planned to do tests until I broke my D2. Hard to comment on the metagame at all without it.
Oct. 11, 2016  3:58 AM
 
(Oct. 11, 2016  3:55 AM)Bey Brad Wrote: I had planned to do tests until I broke my D2. Hard to comment on the metagame at all without it.

Ahh, right. Unhappy

That said, testing it against some of the other stuff it was tested against in the OP is still valuable.
Nov. 14, 2016  3:05 AM
 
I had test it today in tournament and having no conclusive win. At home i have to say from my experience is it have a 50 50 risk to burst and that make mefeel really unconfortable to play with.
Nov. 14, 2016  3:17 AM
 
(Nov. 14, 2016  3:05 AM)loyd87 Wrote: I had test it today in tournament and having no conclusive win. At home i have to say from my experience is it have a 50 50 risk to burst and that make mefeel really unconfortable to play with.

How tight is the fit of the Disk on the Valtryek + Variable you're using? A lot of it's ability to succeed relies on how tightly fitted the entire combo is, which helps reduce the chance of self-bursting.
Nov. 14, 2016  3:30 AM
 
I used the red heavy its my most tight. But i notice that its became loose with time.
Nov. 14, 2016  3:37 AM
 
I just don't know about Valtryek. I definitely think that the Hasbro parts just don't hit as hard, due to the sliding mechanism that "gives" more and softer plastic. I remember seeing Matsuro's Valtryek Heavy Revolve fail hard against Mitsu's Deathscyther Heavy Defense (I think?) and today I had a similar situation with my Valtryek HR Vs. Lani's D?R. I was bursted twice! And with my plated heavy, the fit is really tight.

I can't see myself relying on it again, which basically means that all the money I've spent on Hasbro Burst so far has resulted in zero useful parts. But I will check in again once Xcalius comes out.
Nov. 14, 2016  5:45 AM
 
Weird! Did you ever feel my VKV? I feel like it was tighter than your plated Heavy.

Also, I think Matsuro only lost 3-2 against Mitsu's DHD? But yeah, I can understand self-bursting being a problem depending on the Disk (and potentially getting looser over time as loyd suggested), but I didn't seem to have that problem like you and everyone else seems to have had. I didn't feel at all as if the hits it was landing were softer, but I definitely understand your theory behind that.

Wish we could get even more people to test this, but I guess it'll have to wait until Valtryek sees a wider release worldwide.
Nov. 14, 2016  6:49 AM
 
I have tried with knuckle but it seems to be more loose than my heavy.