Unbanning L-Drago Destroy

Lots of tests, so prepare yourself!

L-Drago Destroy (4D) as an Attack Type

L-Drago Destroy 105 RF vs Scythe Aquario 90 RSF
L-Drago Destroy 105 RF wins: 3/10 (1 OS; 30% win rate)
Scythe Aquario 90 RSF wins: 7/10 (70% win rate)

Benchmark
L-Drago Destructor (Legends) 105 RF vs Scythe Aquario 90 RSF
L-Drago Destructor 105 RF wins: 0/10
Scythe Aquario 90 RSF wins: 10/10 (100% win rate; all OS)

L-Drago Destroy S130 R2F vs Earth Cancer GB145 CS
L-Drago Destroy S130 R2F wins:4/10 (40% win rate)
Earth Cancer GB145 CS wins:6/10 (60% win rate)
Ties: 1

Benchmark
L-Drago Destructor (Legends) S130 R2F vs Earth Cancer GB145 CS
L-Drago Destructor S130 R2F wins: 1/10 (1 KO; 10% win rate)
Earth Cancer GB145 CS 9/10 (1 KO; 90% win rate)


Notes: Launched as hard as I normally do for attack types, but Destructor didn't even come close to KOing Scythe and wasn't nearly as potent as Lightning L-Drago for Earth. If anything, my concern with the matches against Scythe was that Destructor might actually OS its opponent, but while several matches came close, Scythe's win was always defined.

L-Drago Destroy (4D) as a Stamina Type

L-Drago Destroy W145 WD vs Meteo L-Drago CH120 WD
L-Drago Destroy W145 WD wins:6/10 (60% win rate)
Meteo L-Drago CH120 WD wins: 4/10 (40% win rate)
Ties: 1

Notes: The difference in weight between Destroy and Meteo made the outcome fairly obvious. Nevertheless, Meteo put up decent numbers, winning nearly half of the matches and proving that Destroy doesn't dominate

Benchmark
L-Drago Destructor (Legends) W145 WD vs Meteo L-Drago CH120 WD
L-Drago Destructor W145 WD wins: 2/10 (1 KO; 20% win rate)
Meteo L-Drago CH120 WD wins: 8/10 (all OS; 80% win rate)
Ties: 1

Notes: I figured the best way to gage Destructor's stamina potential would be to put it up against another left-spin stamina type. The results were laughably bad in Destructor's favor. No need to worry about it dominating the meta here. To reassure myself that the one-sidedness was not simply due to the fact that its opponent was another left-spin, I pitted the same Destructor combo against Earth.

L-Drago Destroy W145 WD vs Earth Cancer GB145 WD
L-Drago Destroy W145 WD wins: 0/10 (0% win rate)
Earth Cancer GB145 WD wins: 10/10 (100% win rate)

Benchmark
L-Drago Destructor (Legends) W145 WD vs Earth Cancer GB145 WD
L-Drago Destructor W145 WD wins: 0/10 (0% win rate)
Earth Cancer GB145 WD wins: 10/10 (all OS; 100% win rate)

...Enough said. So finally...

L-Drago Destroy (4D) as a Defense Type

L-Drago Destroy TR145 RSF vs Omega Pisces S130 R2F
L-Drago Destroy TR145 RSF wins: 1/10 (1 OS)
Omega Pisces S130 R2F wins: 9/10 (3 OS)
Ties:2

Benchmark
L-Drago Destructor (Legends) TR145 RSF vs Omega Pisces S130 R2F
L-Drago Destructor TR145 RSF wins: 0/10 (0% win rate)
Omega Pisces S130 R2F wins: 10/10 (4 OS; 100% win rate)


Yep. Nothing to see here. The fact that Omega managed to OS Destructor the few times it wasn't KOing it is just depressing given Omega R2F's terrible stamina.

The Dreaded F230 Test
L-Drago Destroy F230 (Orange TT) GCF vs Earth Cancer GB145 WD
L-Drago Destroy F230 GCF wins: 1/10 (1 KO)
Earth Cancer GB145 wins: 9/10 (1 KO)
Ties: 1
...Yes, this was actually a Takara Tomy Orange F230 in good condition, no, I'm not faking these tests. Destroy just...died.



In conclusion, I don't even think I would want to use Destructor in Limited based off of these results, but because of this, I see no harm in unbanning it.
Cool tests, testing with L-Drago Destructor F230CF vs. Earth Cancer W145WD and a meteo benchmark please. Smile
I love L-Drago Destructor, but always tended to think it was too powerful for Limited. Nice topic, TheSupremeOne.

That being said, I have an important question- where did you get the L-Drago Destructor from?

If it was the Legends release that mold was shown to be hollowed out again, so these tests might not be 100% accurate.
It's not that heavy really.
Totally up for the unban.
(Nov. 14, 2014  3:44 AM)Leone19 Wrote: I love L-Drago Destructor, but always tended to think it was too powerful for Limited. Nice topic, TheSupremeOne.

That being said, I have an important question- where did you get the L-Drago Destructor from?

If it was the Legends release that mold was shown to be hollowed out again, so these tests might not be 100% accurate.
It was the Legends re-release... I assumed that its frame would have been the same weight as the Takara Tomy one, since it had the 4D bottom haha
Is it the same weight as the Metal Fury wheel then?
(Nov. 14, 2014  3:55 AM)The Supreme One Wrote:
(Nov. 14, 2014  3:44 AM)Leone19 Wrote: I love L-Drago Destructor, but always tended to think it was too powerful for Limited. Nice topic, TheSupremeOne.

That being said, I have an important question- where did you get the L-Drago Destructor from?

If it was the Legends release that mold was shown to be hollowed out again, so these tests might not be 100% accurate.
It was the Legends re-release... I assumed that its frame would have been the same weight as the Takara Tomy one, since it had the 4D bottom haha
Is it the same weight as the Metal Fury wheel then?

I don't personally have it on me, but I do remember a video being posted in the Hasbro topic and the underside was shown to be hollowed out.

I'll try to find the specific posts.
(Nov. 14, 2014  3:55 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: It was the Legends re-release... I assumed that its frame would have been the same weight as the Takara Tomy one, since it had the 4D bottom haha
Is it the same weight as the Metal Fury wheel then?

I own a Metal Fury L-Drago Destroy and the weight is the same as the Legends version.
(Nov. 14, 2014  3:57 AM)|BeyBouncer| Wrote:
(Nov. 14, 2014  3:55 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: It was the Legends re-release... I assumed that its frame would have been the same weight as the Takara Tomy one, since it had the 4D bottom haha
Is it the same weight as the Metal Fury wheel then?

I own a Metal Fury L-Drago Destroy and the weight is the same as the Legends version.
Hmmm...bummer. Well I suppose this thread could be altered for general Destructor discussion then, so these tests won't go to waste. The ban list should probably be updated to include the Legends version as legal, as well.
(Nov. 14, 2014  4:02 AM)The Supreme One Wrote:
(Nov. 14, 2014  3:57 AM)|BeyBouncer| Wrote:
(Nov. 14, 2014  3:55 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: It was the Legends re-release... I assumed that its frame would have been the same weight as the Takara Tomy one, since it had the 4D bottom haha
Is it the same weight as the Metal Fury wheel then?

I own a Metal Fury L-Drago Destroy and the weight is the same as the Legends version.
Hmmm...bummer. Well I suppose this thread could be altered for general Destructor discussion then, so these tests won't go to waste. The ban list should probably be updated to include the Legends version as legal, as well.

http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-General-...Y?page=766

Yeah, sadly, it is hollowed out.

But really good effort with the topic- heck, this weekend, I'll do some tests with a 4D L-Drago Destructor for the topic. Tongue_out
The Hasbro Hyperblade Spark FX version of L-Drago Destroy is actually the same as Takara Tomy's version, while the Hasbro Metal Fury L-Drago Destroy LW105LF is the same as the Legends version.
(Nov. 14, 2014  4:05 AM)Leone19 Wrote: Yeah, sadly, it is hollowed out.

But really good effort with the topic- heck, this weekend, I'll do some tests with a 4D L-Drago Destructor for the topic. Tongue_out
Haha thanks. That makes a lot of sense though; I was wondering why no one had posted a thread about it sooner, considering how terrible it did.

That would be great, actually! It would be awesome if you could do some comparative testing with the combos I used Destructor against, as well, since the benchmarks are already there.
(Nov. 14, 2014  4:05 AM)Leone19 Wrote: But really good effort with the topic- heck, this weekend, I'll do some tests with a 4D L-Drago Destructor for the topic. Tongue_out
Yeah me too. LDD, Kreis, and Fusion are the only other (I think) still banned 4D wheels that weren't that great in Standard, and I know Kreis/Fusion 85RB is never going to be unbanned. Still, I'm curious about LDD, especially since it never seemed too impressive to me.

But for real though the combo we need to watch out for is L-Drago Destroy F230GCF. It might be topheavy, but its design is much more suited for spin stealing from above than Meteo is. I know people have had moderate success using Spark FX L-Drago Guardian on the same setup, so I'll try that out.
Well, I just bought a Destroy of my own. US shipper, so it should arrive by Monday or Tuesday & then, after another week or two of trying to find the time, I'll re-do some of those tests. Don't worry about comparative testing for now, Leone19, since I can cover that. Additional tests, particularly with F230 CF/GCF, would be much appreciated though.
it's not a good idea for unbanning ldrago destory because they can use f230 cf/gcf since the rubbers on the bottom
Actually, Meteo L-Drago is far better for Spin Stealing (when used on F230CF/GCF setups) than L-Drago Destroy. Meteo L-Drago have rubber on the contact points, while L-Drago Destroy have metal. Also, the rubber core of LDD is not at 100% in contact with the opponent when it fall on the side in both Attack or Absorb mode.
(Nov. 14, 2014  4:23 AM)Wombat Wrote: But for real though the combo we need to watch out for is L-Drago Destroy F230GCF. It might be topheavy, but its design is much more suited for spin stealing from above than Meteo is. I know people have had moderate success using Spark FX L-Drago Guardian on the same setup, so I'll try that out.

I have to agree on this one. L-Drago Destroy on F230 may be a problem, especially now with generally fifty grams on it, too. F230 wasn't banned on F230 as we knew as a community that variants utilizing F230(G)CF wouldn't be all that hard to KO. Now, with L-Drago Destroy however, it may change that. Therefore, it'd be cool to see how competitive Attack variants manage to do against it; whether they'd be able to KO it easily or not.

This is definitely something to be looked into, though. Thanks for the thread, The Supreme One!
I don't think this should be unbanned. It might be a problem in limited. I will do some testing with this soon.
BB-10
Beylauncher L/Beylauncher R with grip
Vs. Stamina alternated launch, otherwise LDD was always first
Modes: LLD-Upper, MLD-Absorb, LDD-Absorb, Omega-Assault?(9-bladed one)
Parts: Orange Hasbro F230 6-7 min B:D, prime RFs and near-mint WD. Earth is whatever mold Hasbro uses.

MF-H L-Drago Destroy F230GCF vs. MF-L Earth Cancer W145WD
L-Drago: 19 wins (18 OS, 1 KO)
Cancer: 1 win (1 OS)
L-Drago win rate: 95%

MF-H L-Drago Destroy F230GCF vs. MF-L Earth Cancer B:D
L-Drago: 8 wins (6 OS, 2 KO)
Cancer: 12 wins (12 OS)
4 ties redone
L-Drago win rate: 40%

MF-H L-Drago Destroy F230GCF vs. MF-L Meteo L-Drago B:D
Destroy: 13 wins (10 OS, 3 KO)
Meteo: 7 wins (7 OS)
1 tie redone
L-Drago Destroy win rate: 65%

MF-H L-Drago Destroy F230GCF vs. MF-L Lightning L-Drago TR145LRF
Destroy: 18 wins (16 OS, 2 KO)
Lightning: 2 wins (2 KO)
1 tie redone
L-Drago Destroy win rate: 90%

MF-H L-Drago Destroy F230GCF vs. MF Omega Horuseus CH120RF
L-Drago: 14 wins (11 OS, 3 KO)
Horuseus: 6 wins (6 KO)
2 ties redone
L-Drago win rate: 70%

So the only things that put a dent in it from what I saw were Omega (which already wrecks everything) and Earth B:D. But it was a 6-7 min. B:D vs. Hasbro Orange F230 so y'all will probably get higher winrates.

Overall, my vote says neigh, leave LDD banned for now.
Yeah, your results definitely make me hesitant, but it did still lose over Earth stamina, if that means anything. If I have time this weekend I'll do some comparative tests with the Legends mold & see how they stack up.
I feel like the rubber is too insignificant, and the metal doesn't change much.
I do wonder about L-Drago Guardian as well.
you put cancer for meteo ldrago b:d
(Nov. 17, 2014  3:51 AM)samurai Tite Wrote: you put cancer for meteo ldrago b:d

Thanks for catching that, It was late and I just copy/pasted the basic format and changed the names & numbers.
Just got my Takara Tomy Destroy, by the way, so I should have some tests up by Wednesday or Thursday evening.
Destroy tests, mirroring the Destructor tests I did, have been added to the OP along with an F230 test. Results look very positive!
1 - Wich bottom did you used with Earth Cancer GB145(?)
2 - I already played around with L-Drago Destructor F230(G)CF and the win results were poor, I can't figure why people are still using it instead of MLD.