The State of the Customisation Forum

Better to do it right and take your time, than to get it done and have a general idea.

I'm just not sure how I would make a template so people could print it off of here
isn't there a guide for that in the advanced forum?
Yep. But thats not the way I'm thinking.
What I'm thinking would be basically like a chart. You put the two beyblades you are testing at the top, there's 20 spaces for 20 rounds. It kinda like a t-chart, except more organized and designed for testing. It would also have pretty much "rules" at the top.
It would be for the person during the tests, because most(with the exception of more knowledgeable members) of the tests are done sloppily-10 rounds, only against a few beyblades, very few tests.
It'd be printed out and then used for the tester to write on.
I wish knew how to do a draft and post it here, but I'm a technologically dumb person.
You could just do it with word, couldn't you?
My attempt (Click to View)
Yep, that's pretty much exactly what I was thinking.
Except instead of equipment, since there is "standard pocedures", and we could just write "standard equipment for testing is: beylauncher, grip, (and whatever else need be mentioned)"
Then rules would be there. Things like redo and count draws, record what shooting method, proper stadium, And whatever else need be mentioned.

Because thats how I set it up at home when I test, its just mine is double columned - rounds 1-10 in the first column, rounds 11-20 in the second column. Its more organized that way.

So I can do it in Microsoft word and post it here? Because I can do that quite easily, I just don't know how it could get here. Ahah
Thanks to Kai-v, i found out how to post it here.
so, here it is:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B5ND8426
I just read it and.
10-20 tests should be better I suppose.
You showed the Grid three times.
In Stamina Testing it should be alternating sots.
Draws should really be Redone.
Nah, if you want to do it proper, do 20. I don't see why you couldn't

I did that so the person didn't have to print off the first page a bunch of times. Just to save space.

Didn't I write that?

I wrote that, and I'm sure of it.
Launch the Stamina Type first, followed by a top tier Stamina Customization; both are to be launched at 100% power.
This is what you wrote.
Oh, shiz Speechless
I deleted it off of my computer. Ahah, why did I do that?

Well, I hope people know to alternate, by reading on here.
Sorry for the necro, I just wanted to make a comment on the amount of rounds of testing we are expected to do. Mods, if you will, please do not hesitate. I am a lazy bastard...

Anyhow, I just wanted to point out that the standard has always been 20 rounds, and people are just starting o enforce this now. If anything, it should be 30 or more. Since stamina is typically hard to test by yourself or even with a friend for that matter, and we have nearly covered all stamina tracks, I believe this is just. To make this post not completely useless, I also wanted to state something about the quality of shooting on this forum, the ignorance displayed in people's posts and the lack of depth in what we have come to accept as the "standard format" There is another point I'd like to make, but as of now let us discuss these.

Gosh people, so many 'counters' when really, they turn out to be a load of carp. Think about your combo for a second, do not just go and post a random evolution of some basic Earth combo; Basalt GB145CS for example. Think about your combo, your ability to control the opposition and weather or not your combo makes sense. Again, why would GB145 have any more use over BD145? BD145 is double the weight, is wider and the plastic actually makes a difference. You might like to learn how to shoot, or atleast make an effort to vaguely copy the combo down, a ridiculous amount of people have been simply saying, oh Big Bang (Galaxy Ver. ?) Pegasis 125LF completely owns MF-H LLD BD145R2F. If you hadn't noticed, BD145 isn't able to spin steal on R2F, works well on RF and CS, but is dominant only on LRF. Also, think. If the combo is MF, how can you even comprehend that it would be ok to add an extra gram. Just as a single millimetre affects performance on a blade, so will any gram or wear on the parts.

We are all fancy pants, aren't we. Must we always use MF or MF-H? Why not just call it Metal Face or Metal Face Heavy? Because both we assume everyone grips what we are saying and cause we are lazy. While it is alright by our standards to do this, we perfectionists may want this to be corrected. So what. What does this have anything to do with my post. It doesn't, do not make assumptions. And that, my friends, is what I'm talking about. Ignorance. Many a time I have been shot down because someone failed to read my post or even the postI may have been replying to. Don't jump at someone because they look as if they fail, take me for instance.
(May. 27, 2011  2:34 PM)Deikailo Wrote:
(May. 27, 2011  9:49 AM)Mushy Wrote: Ahh, such disappointing changes. It completely defeats the purpose of LDD BD145CS, but oh well. I'm happy with all of this, and thanks for the news though. I'm doubtful about GP, or Vari Ares when it comes out. I would think the spin direction thing would still be allowed, but just checking up since all of those mentioned were tracks and you'd have to kind of disassemble(?) the launcher to change the prongs lol. (I meant to say the cap, but idk how to explain... Thank you pplz in advance, looking forward to the day.
It's not like you could switch it to boost mode...
Well and truly. Can you not perceive that I could have meant the position of the heads in the disk, or the mode of L Drago itself. Can we please just take one moment to read before we post. If there was something fun I could do with read just as think could with well, think, I would have done something already. Ther is another situation somewhere in the Vari Aries thread. Perhaps it was my fault that I hadn't quoted it, but does it really kill you to read the previous pages, its not as if at the time there were 10 pages of pure troll to skim through?

And my last point, which is our misunderstanding of the rules by which we must abide by when testing, and also my suggestions. I'll startwith my suggestion first, as I do not want to forget it again, ahah. So anyway, in a tournament condition, we are often told it is best out of three, or firt to three. For a combo to be completely successful every time, I believe that in our testing we must do three or more sets of 20-40 rounds, and have it that a blad emust consistently lose less than 2 or 1 times consistently to be classified as top tier. Take a set of results with a bey that has a 17 round win. Imagine this in a competitive scene.If we were uncucky enough, those three rounds that it would have lost in testing could have happneed consecutively at the start of the battle, and the 17 monster could have lost in that specific battle anyway. However, if we tested enough times that we feel we are masters of that blade and it only gets a maximum of 2 losses in any set at any one given time, then in a first to three situation, then three of those 18 rounds would have kicked in, even if the first two the opposition had won, as we know we are confident enough not to let it win anymore than two times. Of course, nobody here ha the time or deication to do so, but I believe it is the most efficient and accurate way of echiving great resukts in competitions and such.

Now, my hopefully final point. I missed one more thing which may or may not come back to me soon, but oh well Ill update later. People have no idea what standard procedure is. Can you people not read? I've already listed one falter, and while not entirely important, it gives me peace of mind as to know that everyone isn't as retarted as I would have thought... It doesn't hurt to read and then produce accurate tests, if any at all. I'm not going too in depth with this, as you should be more than capable of undertsanding your own mistakes, if any and fixing them yourselves. Thank you if you have read that, or even bothered to try and absorb some of the info. I thought posting it here if anywhere would not have made the necromancy so bad since it is already stickied?

Kei, that was kinda mean. Uncertain Your a mod so you have my ull respect but I dislike how you can SPAM(?) while we cannot? idk, but yeah.

DONT GET ME STARTED ON MANY OF THE CURENT COUNTERS. THEY P*SS ME OFF. HER O IS CARP AND SO ARE MANY MORE. THE ONLY ONES THAT ACTUALLY SEEM TO WORK TO ME ARE ROOK, MF L DRAGO 90/85MF, and Dragon Punsiher. AND SOME OTHERS BY RESPECTED MEMBERS.

Ahh yes, not exactly what I wanted to say before but still a good point of discussion noentheless. Names. They are so f***ing g*y. I hate them. Sure, names like Shark Sashimi and Moo Moo Hurrivane were alright, but wtf. Volcanic Bull. GYEVUEUH? Hero? WTF!!! pplz, what has this world come to. If you are going to give anything a name, name it in the actualy text itself and tell us what the combo is in the title instead. I hate to see something called Colvanic Super Macho Rock, read over and find it is some noob combo. This stuff wastes time, and makes me lose interest. Put the name in the titel, or I personally will no longer read over your threads. Unless by someone knowledgeable like Bluezee or Kei(?), which I had the misfortune of wasting my time with his f***ing gravity wheel. I'll never forgve him for that, more importantly, it was disrespectful to both Dan and bluezees appreciaters(?) I admire bluezees determination and effort towards the community, and you come along and mess with him... D:
Woah, they say I write long posts...

Must say I disagree with 30 rounds, 20 is a pain in the butt as it is (though neccessary), and no one will want to bother testing if the cutoff is that high. There are what, 4-7 combo's you'd need to test against to prove your combo is viable. That's 120-210 rounds of testing. If you're combo has a rubber tip, you're going to need to have two ready to go, as one will be a little too worn before you're done.

But I agree people need to stop posting counter threads. They only work if you KNOW your opponent is using whatever they're countering, so in a tourney situation, they're almost useless. I've got a proposal, I made it in the "Final Counter" thread. I'll copy it here:
Also, as Kei said, we should insist titles of new combo's in this forum consist SOLELY of WHAT THE COMBO IS (eg MF-L Gravity Perseus TH170HF/S). No names, less fame, and way easier to read.
Yeah, lol. I've come to realise that, but I just like to make a final remark on the "counter" threads. A counter is only viable if it can beat other top-tier customizations that are likely to appear in the current metagame, there is no use having something that will beat LT only, and have it suck against Basalt Tank. While it may be comforting to have something that is specifically designed to beat a strong contender in the current metagame, I thought that should be noted. Anyway, thank for your feedback Joyful_3
Exactly, which is why I'm advocating keeping that kind of thing to a single thread. They ARE handy, if your opponent is spamming a combo, and you're sure they'll use it, or if a combo is bloody everywhere (Sup MF-H Basalt__ 230CS).

When I'm testing combo's to see if they're viable, I normally test against combo's that are currently dominant, plus whatever the last "trendy" combo's were (LTSC's, etc). Why? Not everyone can afford the cutting-edge, so you'll more likely than not come across them at some stage. I'm making that assumption from what I've read of tourneys, but if someone who regularly participates in tourneys could verify this for me, it'd be AWESOME.

Sidenote: A combo that gets overlooked quite a bit is MF-H Hell Kerbecs 230CS. It's not on the top tier list, but it's height makes it hard for a lot of combos to do much to it.


So, umm, maybe a list of what people should be testing against would be good? I know we have the competitive combo's list, but I figure we can probably distil that a little to make a guide list for each type of combo (so people aren't doing loads of unnecessary testing).
You guys know EXACTLY what I am thinking. Mushy, you amaze me more and more with each intelligent post and th!nk, I'm at a loss for words, right on point EVERYTIME. All these "counters" don't do much of anything at all. The only legitimate ones are TR and Dragon Punisher(I can vouch for Dragon Punisher now that I have more tests coming up later today). Also, Ga'Hooleone's combo works as well so I would add that in. However, the one that gets the highest win rate which is almost 100% everytime is Dragon Punisher. It consistently kills LT and MM with no issue at all and ANY other left spin combination. Even right spin combinations are starting to fall to this with the right CS. That is the most effective right now but the others are still VERY useful. They can be used in ANY circumstances while all the others seems to be just randomly thrown together parts.

Now of course, I would post that in their threads but then I would get the "you're being arrogant and disrespectful.....etc" all day long. Truth is though, it is all true. They DON'T WORK. Also, I really think that new testers should have video proof of what they are doing to get these results. People would constantly say to me, "it's not fair to say they are not using the combo right just because they are not getting your results" but in reality, they really are not using it right. People have been failing HORRIBLY when it comes to using LT and especially MM. Then their thread goes on longer than necessary.

Another thing that annoys me most is when people try to use combos that are intended to outrun LT. All they are doing is tornado stalling and if that's the case, LT just has to be tornado stalled for the win. If your win rates are not coming from doing the same exact method with both attackers, (i.e., LT in sliding shoot mode while the "counter" is just tornado stalling) your results are inaccurate. And you are DEFINITELY not getting away from MM. XF is the fastest plastic bottom out. It may very well be the fastest bottom period but LRF/R2F rival its speed so it is undetermined. All other bottoms are slower.

I can go on for days about how bad a lot of these counters are but it would be pointless. People will just keep putting them out anyway. However, I applaud some users for trying. They are Pocky and Ga'Hooleone. They were the ONLY ones that actually took time to look at their custom and think, "would this work against anything else". The Defending Hero may not beat LT or MM but it is a fun combo to use and it is actually rather good at defense. Ga'Hooleone's combo is just awesome anyway.
(May. 28, 2011  2:23 PM)Bluezee Wrote: I can go on for days about how bad a lot of these counters are but it would be pointless. People will just keep putting them out anyway. However, I applaud some users for trying. They are Pocky and Ga'Hooleone. They were the ONLY ones that actually took time to look at their custom and think, "would this work against anything else". The Defending Hero may not beat LT or MM but it is a fun combo to use and it is actually rather good at defense. Ga'Hooleone's combo is just awesome anyway.

[Image: images.jpg]
But I like th!nk's idea of a single thread for all of the niche Dragon Twin counters. Unless the combo actually does well against other things, it should just be put into a single thread. Otherwise, all of these threads are pretty much SPAM, since most of these combos are "OMG I taken down LT YEA, I rulz!", then when you send it against something like Virgo AD145WD they fail epically. They all do the same thing, right? Then they should all be in the same thread. Like how I came back from school yesterday, went on the Customizations forum, and literally found a topic named "Counter to Maximum Meteor". This clearly proves that everyone is trying to counter only those 2 combos. So if they all achieve one purpose, why SPAM? It's like making a new thread for every aspect of Bakugan in the General discussion because the member feels like it deserves its own thread, when it really just falls under one general subject.
Firstly, LOL.
Secondly: I think all NICHE combo's are close enough that they could be kept to a single thread, but yeah, maybe that's not practical. Still, it would be nice to clean the place up. It also means less people will be praising each niche combo before another comes along. It'd really help with the culture side of things.
[Image: bandwagon.jpg]

I don't have much to say here, because you've already vented for me, I usually just put up with the silliness around here and deal with it. (disputing combinations, rarely am I ever validating any.) But its got to be a tad too much. As for the 'groupies'; there is no such thing, they all just bandwagon whatever seems coolest or who the OP is. Those bandwagoners are the same people who 'create counters' but in the LT/MM thread they say 'r u a wizard???!!! Amazig combi man!!1'
Mushy Wrote:If you hadn't noticed, BD145 isn't able to spin steal on R2F, works well on RF and CS, but is dominant only on LRF
Yeah, no I think RF is best for spin-stealing/equalizing. Ugh, CS?
Erm, I wasn't entirely sure, but thanks for clearing that up. Bluezee, coming from you that means alot to me, thank you. I would start a meme from the last two pictures here, but I'd rather not. You know, I seem to be just a little against the notion that we create a thread for all the fail or one trick ponies we have out there, since all the combos currently available to beat LT and MM efficiently are only the ones that work really, and I know time rook, Ga's combo and Dragon Punisher works well against different sorts of blades, and the rest don't even have a stand against LT or MM really. The customization forum is a place that is supposedly a trustworthy resource, and if we have someone post a fail combo then go along to use it in an upcoming tournament, they are pretty much screwed really. Just my two cents, and I know I'm contradicting myself from earlier. I change my mind way too quickly...

Oh snap, just read the word "niche" dragon twin customs. But there aren't any of those nich single purpose customs, all the ones that actually work can beat other things? Ah, forgive me.
If we keep it to one thread, we contain the suck. I doubt they'll disappear otherwise. MF LDD 230CS and MFH Badalt Horogium 230MF would fit my criteria of being versatile enough fir the main forum (I need to try them on th170, too). The other niche ones can have a single thread, otherwise, people will keep posting them.

The other option is to make a rule about no niche counters. However, I think a single counters thread is probably a fairer solution.
Ugh, so many new threads with nicknames, testing with nicknames instead of combo's (especially where there are different CW's and everything)... We should probably look at sorting this out fairly soon. Put through those rules about thread names (and re-state the standard testing results writeup thing, along with "use full names for combo's, not nicknames"). Make it a big announcement, and enforce it strictly, I guess Uncertain

I'd probably be able to run the "Niche Counters" thread thing, but I'd rather wait for input from mods/committee members on whether it's worthwhile. If it is, as I've said, it'd be good if it were a rule that all niche counters be kept to that thread.
For that thread, I can write up the posting guidelines for combo's (basically, what your combo is, what it's countering, how both were launched, did you try different launches, and that kind of info, plus testing results), but yeah, is it worth doing? Would it be better if it were just a "Dragon Twins" counter thread?

My thinking is that we save a lot of clutter if it's an all-encompassing thing, though it would probably require some work on my behalf to keep updated, as long as the submission rules are followed, it wouldn't be that hard.
The standard testing procedure and "posting results" thread NEED to be concluded/updated and stickied in the customisation forum.

The fact these threads are well out-of-the-way in the advanced forum and that the rules/guidelines aren't really quite clear anyway needs to be addressed.

We don't have a clear definition of our rules for testing/posting results. Those threads are full of discussion that's kind of halted without reaching consensus. My long explanations section addresses certain major issues if you don't see the need, but in my opinion there's no doubt we need to make this clearer, and clean this place up.
Otherwise: this kind of thing happens (read the answers): http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Ask-a-qu...#pid662735

Long Explanations (Click to View)

Honestly, I'd like some input on these ideas, if you want to say "too much work", seeing as I've basically screwed up my degree over the last week anyway, I'll probably have a bit of time on my hands to help out. Yes, I'll keep it concise. Because seriously, let's just get the damn thing done so we can have a working forum again.

I realise it's gonna take a bit of moderation work to make sure the community follows the new rules, but you guys seem to be annoyed at the way it's going, and if you made a point to ask people to report breaches of the new rules when they see them, maybe that would help? (not rhetorical btw, do you think it would work?)

I know we're an official organisation, but there's no reason to be as slow as the public service if we don't have to Tongue_out

PS: Sorry for the triple post, but this seemed pretty important to me.
My opposition towards a "niche counters" thread is that "niche" can mean a whole variety of things, and is a fairly subjective term anyway. A successful counter not only counters a specific customisation, but is also relatively successful against many other standard metagame customisations.

I agree with most of your other points, and will make some changes soon - I think you're hyperbolising; there are definitely faults with the Customisation Forum which we can iron out, but I certainly don't think it's not working.
Yeah, I agree, niche isn't the right term. What I mean, is a single thread for all of these "counters" that only work against one or two opponents, and lack versatility. We've seen an explosion of these lately, and I think it'd be much better if we kept it all contained in one thread. They aren't particularly useful, but I don't think it's worth making a rule to ban them outright. "Niche Counter" as a single term, may be appropriate, in meaning "A combo which is specialised to defeat one or two opponents, at the cost of being largely useless otherwise".

And yes, that was exaggerated on my part, I should have used a better word. I didn't meant to say it wasn't working at all, more that it wasn't working properly (i.e. somewhat dysfunctional).

I'd definitely put emphasis on a clear, simple set of rules for testing, as numerous posts and threads show people don't understand.

Glad to hear you're on it though Smile
EVERY ONE LISTEN! Here is one of my best combo's!
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Tip:Jog Ball
Spin Track:Tornado 2125
Fusion Wheel:Rock
Energy Ring:Aquario Green
Face Bolt:Green Aquario