I wish Hasbro wouldn't OVERSELL Twisted, if you get what I'm saying. Hopefully, it won't be seen at EVERY Target, Wal-Mart, Toys R Us, etc. Hopefully, it won't be a Storm Pegasus marketed bey. (Basically, I'm saying that Twisted shouldn't be seen at every store with a surplus of the bey...)
Should we ban Basalt?
Poll: Should any changes be made?
| Do not change the rules. |
|
181 |
| Ban the Basalt Metal Wheel entirely. |
|
48 |
| Basalt's use should be restricted in some way (post your suggestions). |
|
61 |
| Total: | 100% | 290 vote(s) |
(Aug. 14, 2011 7:02 AM)RustyXD Wrote: Yeah it kind of does , but I meant that Right spin attack will have almost nothing to challenge it , but I no that it wont win tournaments or anything like that as it says why in the post I wrote that SAM Quoted. Libra does OK with CS I mean it will work but not as well as basalt and most attack customs gets about 50% against Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS so against Libra I would imagine about a 70% win rate.
Well, Kai-V's post- Kai-V
I think that what she said is extremely well-explained, and logical. Attack types won't dominate that easily. They aren't used much in tourneys, and half of the WBO members don't even know how to control attack types.
But, I simply don't get the reason to ban Basalt completely... Yes, its won almost every tourney, but I don't think its wise to ban it.
Yes, I agree, that if you wanna beat Basalt, you have to use Basalt... The meta-game also gets extremely limited. Its tough to get a solution for this matter, but I think-
If we wait for sometime to see what new releases can do to Basalt, and if we just keep Basalt aside for sometime and find some powerful attack types, then it might be possible.
My previous post on this thread was proved wrong by Kai-V's post shown above. Its not feasible to restrict Basalt. So now, what should we do? If we ban Basalt, there'll be a lot of variety in the game and there will be no 'unbeatable' bey. Yes, there have been discussions that LLD and most other attack wheels will just KILL the other beys if Basalt is banned. But IMO, Attack types are the least predictable. As Temporal said(I think), just any newbie can use Basalt. Its just throwing it towards the center of the stadium. But for attack types, people need practice. They need perfect launches, good launch power, and most importantly- control over their power. So thus, attack types are the least predictable. If they won you a tourney today, you may stand last in the next one. Attack types depend on tier and skill. Use the best attack type, but with your crappy launches, you lose your game. While for Defense, there is no tier or skill... Basalt has completely dominated the game, so its the only Defense part. All other Defense parts have been torn apart, and Basalt is the only one at the top, so there is no tier(this is what I think, I know that Libra, Earth, etc are top tier). Skill required, is negligible.
I think I went too off topic.
So in short, its tough to take a decision. Waiting is the best option, I think.
![[Image: janstarblastsignature.jpg]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-imUVk9PErhw/Tb5jNvGKumI/AAAAAAAAAFw/8iSsYhW7vEw/janstarblastsignature.jpg)
For the past few Melbourne tournaments Basalt has been used by almost all of the finalists, and the ones who don't use it, usually come out as 3rd. It seems as though if someone uses Basalt then they are pretty much guaranteed to win, unless their opponent is also using Basalt, or is an experienced Attack type user. I've only seen a few battles in the past few months where Attack has bested Basalt.
IMO it needs to be banned, so the metagame can become balanced.
IMO it needs to be banned, so the metagame can become balanced.
My views on Basalt are that its an overused part, not necessarily overpowered. If we do ban Basalt, we won't see any variety anyhow because the current counters to it are already so powerful that we'd see more Lightning L Drago VD145RFs than Basalt. That's my thought process at the moment, but eh.
This is what I really think, the above is just logical thought.
BAN BASALTS BECAUSE EVERYTIME IVE EVER LOST AT A TOURNEY IT WAS BECAUSE OF BASALT >_>
But wait, hold on. Is basalt really the problem? I think Basalt is a problem to our old attackers like GP R145RF, but since if we banned Basalt we'd still see no variety in blades used competitively, if we banned BD145 that makes Basalt practically useless against anything released after the Maximum Series (Or something else, I can still get good shots against it without BD145 with LLD), a few good stamina customs like BD145WD and BD145EDS (Hell and Scythe respectively) etc You get what I mean right? Ban BD145 and further down the track I think RB will do wonders for the defense metagame even without Basalt. Pretty soft rubber, Libra GB145RS all over again.
But thats just speculation based on RB vs righty spin.
BUTS, I'm scared of stamina types. Cause this is what happened with Libra, everyone ran to the next best RELIABLE solution. Scythe... BAN SCYTHE
This is what I really think, the above is just logical thought.
BAN BASALTS BECAUSE EVERYTIME IVE EVER LOST AT A TOURNEY IT WAS BECAUSE OF BASALT >_>
But wait, hold on. Is basalt really the problem? I think Basalt is a problem to our old attackers like GP R145RF, but since if we banned Basalt we'd still see no variety in blades used competitively, if we banned BD145 that makes Basalt practically useless against anything released after the Maximum Series (Or something else, I can still get good shots against it without BD145 with LLD), a few good stamina customs like BD145WD and BD145EDS (Hell and Scythe respectively) etc You get what I mean right? Ban BD145 and further down the track I think RB will do wonders for the defense metagame even without Basalt. Pretty soft rubber, Libra GB145RS all over again.
But thats just speculation based on RB vs righty spin.
BUTS, I'm scared of stamina types. Cause this is what happened with Libra, everyone ran to the next best RELIABLE solution. Scythe... BAN SCYTHE
(Aug. 14, 2011 9:08 AM)Mushy Wrote: My views on Basalt are that its an overused part, not necessarily overpowered. If we do ban Basalt, we won't see any variety anyhow because the current counters to it are already so powerful that we'd see more Lightning L Drago VD145RFs than Basalt. That's my thought process at the moment, but eh.
This is what I really think, the above is just logical thought.
BAN BASALTS BECAUSE EVERYTIME IVE EVER LOST AT A TOURNEY IT WAS BECAUSE OF BASALT >_>
Yes, your point is true. But, as I said in my post, its extremely tough to use attack types. So at least, they won't 'dominate'.
As someone mentioned earlier on, I'd say restrict Basalt's use in some way.
We can do it like this:
a) Ban Basalt with tracks higher than 145 and tracks which weigh more than 6 grams (indirectly banning Basalt with BD145/TH170/230)
b) Ban Basalt with CS/MB (now you cannot use Basalt BD145MB/CS or Basalt TH170/230CS).
Idk why but I feel Basalt shouldn't be banned entirely.
We can do it like this:
a) Ban Basalt with tracks higher than 145 and tracks which weigh more than 6 grams (indirectly banning Basalt with BD145/TH170/230)
b) Ban Basalt with CS/MB (now you cannot use Basalt BD145MB/CS or Basalt TH170/230CS).
Idk why but I feel Basalt shouldn't be banned entirely.
![[Image: 9tg8qc.png]](https://i56.tinypic.com/9tg8qc.png)
I was a BAN BASALT guy. Then I realised this.
Sure, its very hard to beat but there are counters:
MF-H Variares R145RF/MF beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS/MB
MF-M Beat Lynx GB145R2F beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS/MB
MF-M Meteo L-Drago ED145EWD beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH170/230CS/D
MF Meteo L-Drago CH120XF beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS
MF-L Gravity Perseus STM BD145EDS (Left) beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS (My own combo! It might work against TH170)
C'mon people! If you dont have the parts go buy/borrow them. If people generally have these parts, Basalt will become overpowered then there is no point banning it. Then we all need the find new combos...
Sure, its very hard to beat but there are counters:
MF-H Variares R145RF/MF beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS/MB
MF-M Beat Lynx GB145R2F beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS/MB
MF-M Meteo L-Drago ED145EWD beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH170/230CS/D
MF Meteo L-Drago CH120XF beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS
MF-L Gravity Perseus STM BD145EDS (Left) beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS (My own combo! It might work against TH170)
C'mon people! If you dont have the parts go buy/borrow them. If people generally have these parts, Basalt will become overpowered then there is no point banning it. Then we all need the find new combos...
Thats just bullcarp. We just dont use it. Its not gonna have a revamp with a new MW...
(Aug. 14, 2011 10:25 AM)Shadow Scythe Wrote: I was a BAN BASALT guy. Then I realised this.
Sure, its very hard to beat but there are counters:
MF-H Variares R145RF/MF beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS/MB
MF-M Beat Lynx GB145R2F beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS/MB
MF-M Meteo L-Drago ED145EWD beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH170/230CS/D
MF Meteo L-Drago CH120XF beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS
MF-L Gravity Perseus STM BD145EDS (Left) beats MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS (My own combo! It might work against TH170)
C'mon people! If you dont have the parts go buy/borrow them. If people generally have these parts, Basalt will become overpowered then there is no point banning it. Then we all need the find new combos...
People do not use any of them, they believe Basalt is the safest way.
Janstarblast in my post I never said attack will dominate if basalt is banned read my others posts and you will understand.
I completely agree with Mushy about Basalt being overused. Lets say 75% of people in a tournament use Basalt there is going to be an almost certain chance that a Basalt combo will place due to the sheer number of people who use it , that is why there is so much tournament dominance with Basalt because a lot of people use it because it is 'safe' , once Scythe is more heavily used it will start placing at a lot more tournaments.
I completely agree with Mushy about Basalt being overused. Lets say 75% of people in a tournament use Basalt there is going to be an almost certain chance that a Basalt combo will place due to the sheer number of people who use it , that is why there is so much tournament dominance with Basalt because a lot of people use it because it is 'safe' , once Scythe is more heavily used it will start placing at a lot more tournaments.
Saw a video of MF-H Basalt Aquario 230CS vs. MF Screw Horogium GB145RF. Screw Horogium won, maybe we can consider that combo?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ1ANAtFDxg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ1ANAtFDxg
That is just a video , they could have edited it to get the result they wanted. I did say before that any good 145 height attacker does quite well against Basalt 230CS.
(Aug. 14, 2011 10:37 AM)RustyXD Wrote: Janstarblast in my post I never said attack will dominate if basalt is banned read my others posts and you will understand.
I completely agree with Mushy about Basalt being overused. Lets say 75% of people in a tournament use Basalt there is going to be an almost certain chance that a Basalt combo will place due to the sheer number of people who use it , that is why there is so much tournament dominance with Basalt because a lot of people use it because it is 'safe' , once Scythe is more heavily used it will start placing at a lot more tournaments.
Yes I know! Just that your post gave me the best content(especially the 1st line, sorry forgot to bold it) I required to refer to. Not correcting you at all!
Basalt is the most simple to use top tier wheel. That's also one of the reasons why its overused. The Spiral Staircase proves out to be helpful at times, instead of hindering Basalt's performance(its main purpose). But seriously, banning it is not wise. It can be defeated at least. Its not unbeatable, just tough to defeat. So I don't support banning it, as of yet.
(Aug. 14, 2011 10:37 AM)RustyXD Wrote: I completely agree with Mushy about Basalt being overused. Lets say 75% of people in a tournament use Basalt there is going to be an almost certain chance that a Basalt combo will place due to the sheer number of people who use it , that is why there is so much tournament dominance with Basalt because a lot of people use it because it is 'safe' , once Scythe is more heavily used it will start placing at a lot more tournaments.
So what your saying is that we should just wait for Scythe to start dominating ... ?
No I am saying that scythe will start placing where the stamina orientated metagames are , because people will start choosing that that over basalt so basalt will stop being overused and thus will not win as much.
Although Scythe will domintate if Basalts gone as that is the only wheel (Beside attack) that has a chance against it IMHO.
Although Scythe will domintate if Basalts gone as that is the only wheel (Beside attack) that has a chance against it IMHO.
I say no. Perhaps limit some of it's combos if it interferes with the variety of the game. When things get banned people just look for subsitutes and that becomes the new powerful thing. If we limit it so that certain combos are not allowed this keeps the balance AND the variety.
![[Image: punkbladerrr1.jpg]](https://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z445/PunkBlader/punkbladerrr1.jpg)
(Aug. 14, 2011 11:07 AM)PunkBlader Wrote: I say no. Perhaps limit some of it's combos if it interferes with the variety of the game. When things get banned people just look for subsitutes and that becomes the new powerful thing. If we limit it so that certain combos are not allowed this keeps the balance AND the variety.
We want people to look for new combos. That's the problem with Basalt right now.
![[Image: Lucagonire.png]](https://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss26/nihaal_01/Lucagonire.png)
![[Image: Humapass.png]](https://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss26/nihaal_01/Humapass.png)
If another amazing combo is found after Basalt is banned, then Basalt will be unbanned.
(Aug. 14, 2011 10:57 AM)RustyXD Wrote: No I am saying that scythe will start placing where the stamina orientated metagames are , because people will start choosing that that over basalt so basalt will stop being overused and thus will not win as much.It is still unsure who would dominate after Basalt being banned,but I could say,if it is banned,we will rarely see Libra nor Earth anymore.These two are so outclassed,and can be beaten by most attackers nowadays.Yes,I think Scythe would dominate after this,so yeah,this is totally a different situation from Libra.Libra is banned due to the fact that it created the rockpaperscissors metagame,but why ban this?Libra was banned as attack has no chance against it,for Basalt's case,many attack combos could beat it.
Although Scythe will domintate if Basalts gone as that is the only wheel (Beside attack) that has a chance against it IMHO.
![[Image: ares.png]](https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc487/Haikal_Kushahrin/ares.png)
![[Image: userbrad.gif]](https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc487/Haikal_Kushahrin/userbrad.gif)
(Aug. 14, 2011 11:14 AM)Straight Edge Wrote: Punkblader has gotta point,we dont wanna ban basalt because then they will have some new subsitutes for basalt and the subsitutes will be too powerful then get banned like the others. Simple.
It won't be like that though. Basalt is the best for defence and stamina. So anything else that replaces it won't dominate as much.
people here are the details of what shall happen in the future.
READ!!! THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT
if basalt is banned: more people would feel safer using stamina combos.As a result people would start using attack combos to overcome the new generation of stamina types.the increase of attack types leads to the usage of more reliable and soon more to be invented defense combos.Thus created the best possible metagame:
ATTACK>STAMINA>DEFENSE>ATTACK
if it isnt banned: people would still be using basalt. Most basalt combos have the ability to KO stamina combos.
stamina combos will thus be unreliable. Attack combos would be risky because most people dont know how to use them completely even though these attack combos can beat basalt. The only way to win would be to use Basalt.
now what do you think and dont say restrict it cause that isn't gonna happen
READ!!! THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT
if basalt is banned: more people would feel safer using stamina combos.As a result people would start using attack combos to overcome the new generation of stamina types.the increase of attack types leads to the usage of more reliable and soon more to be invented defense combos.Thus created the best possible metagame:
ATTACK>STAMINA>DEFENSE>ATTACK
if it isnt banned: people would still be using basalt. Most basalt combos have the ability to KO stamina combos.
stamina combos will thus be unreliable. Attack combos would be risky because most people dont know how to use them completely even though these attack combos can beat basalt. The only way to win would be to use Basalt.
now what do you think and dont say restrict it cause that isn't gonna happen
![[Image: H8Rs-Sig-1.gif]](https://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j323/StewieBlitz/H8Rs-Sig-1.gif)
Restrict some combos is much better than totally ban.
Now What I know is the only way, except blowing it away, is using flame 100SF to destable it.
Destablers are not reliable however; So There is a need to restrict Basalt BD145 CS this game breaking combo.
Now What I know is the only way, except blowing it away, is using flame 100SF to destable it.
Destablers are not reliable however; So There is a need to restrict Basalt BD145 CS this game breaking combo.
(Aug. 14, 2011 11:57 AM)天翔翼 TenshouYoku Wrote: Restrict some combos is much better than totally ban.
Now What I know is the only way, except blowing it away, is using flame 100SF to destable it.
Destablers are not reliable however; So There is a need to restrict Basalt BD145 CS this game breaking combo.
dude banning that specific combo will achieve nothing go into detail what would it do.
I mean seriously basalt can be used in so many more ways.
that combo is very easy to beat trust me.
banning the combo would solve nothing
Also if all of you are scared that basalt's banning will give attack types the advantage think again there are sooo many combos such as MF-H Libra BD145RSF/RS/CS or MF-H Earth aquario BD145RS/RSF.
just use them right.
H8R:
That combo is very easy to beat? Last time I checked, even a 50% win rate against that was good...
And that is one of the 4-5 Basalt combos because of which this discussion is happening.
That combo is very easy to beat? Last time I checked, even a 50% win rate against that was good...
And that is one of the 4-5 Basalt combos because of which this discussion is happening.
I must tell you even VariAres 85 RF, Blitz Unicorno CH120/R145 R2F and even LLD 120Rf can't budge this Tower.
How come it is easy to beat?
How come it is easy to beat?