Libra DF145S vs Hell Kerbecs BD145WD (Boost Mode)
Standard Conditions
Libra DF145S: 3 Wins
Hell Kerbecs BD145WD: 7 Wins
2 Draws
Libra DF145S win percentage: 30%

I redid all KOs and Draws, but as you can see I'm getting nowhere near the same results. Even if Libra won the next 10 rounds, it wouldn't show the same disparity your results show. I did a few rounds with EWD too as I prefer to WD; it's much of the same, really.

So now will you please get rid of that combo now? I really don't know why it is even top-tier for stamina. Real stamina types use S.

Obviously, this requires more than one person to test it so I think you're being far too presumptuous in calling for its removal ...

Do you mind telling me what mold of Libra you are using?

BB-96 Super Deck Set mold.

Libra DF145S vs Hell Kerbecs BD145WD (Boost Mode)
Standard Conditions
Libra DF145S: 3 Wins
Hell Kerbecs BD145WD: 7 Wins
2 Draws
Libra DF145S win percentage: 30%

I redid all KOs and Draws, but as you can see I'm getting nowhere near the same results. Even if Libra won the next 10 rounds, it wouldn't show the same disparity your results show. I did a few rounds with EWD too as I prefer to WD; it's much of the same, really.

no MF-H? i think with a MF-H it will work as it directs more weight to the center of the combo (giving it more balance right?)

So glad you paid attention to this.

I will test this and confirm its real. I learnt from Kei's thread :>. If its real, Bluezee, Expect Another Video on this like MF LLD BD145LRF .

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BB-96 Super Deck Set mold.

Hmm. Interesting. Libra did not do as well as Earth but the results were definitely higher than the ones you received. I wonder what's going on.

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I will test this and confirm its real. I learnt from Kei's thread :>. If its real, Bluezee, Expect Another Video on this like MF LLD BD145LRF .

Thanks a lot buddy.

lol even I'll pitch in a video, I'm in that sort of mood.

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When i get home im going to post a Earth video.

OK video up....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geAJYg9Dlzk

Wow, looks really nice, nice video too.

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I'm not too sure if 'pure' Stamina is Viable in this Metagame? I mean MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD is Defense/Stamina. It can withstand a couple attacks while having good Stamina. A pure Stamina will be knocked out by any CS combo. A Defense combo. With attack types like Beat, Fang and LLD this stands no chance. I understand that you are going for PURE Stamina and nothing else. In which that area you are right. It does OS other Stamina types but that is because they can withstand other attacks; Being heavier.

Hmm. Im not too sure if I put that into words very well...

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I'm not too sure if 'pure' Stamina is Viable in this Metagame? I mean MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD is Defense/Stamina. It can withstand a couple attacks while having good Stamina. A pure Stamina will be knocked out by any CS combo. A Defense combo. With attack types like Beat, Fang and LLD this stands no chance. I understand that you are going for PURE Stamina and nothing else. In which that area you are right. It does OS other Stamina types but that is because they can withstand other attacks; Being heavier.

Hmm. Im not too sure if I put that into words very well...

Yeah, you're right about this too. Even with a weak launch, S-based variants are going to have a harder time against more customisations than Hell Kerbecs BD145WD. It definitely has more versatility going for it, which makes it a safer choice.

You both are missing the point here, which is clearly stated in the title of the thread. It is Hell Kerbecs BD145WD's kryptonite in terms of stamina. It is not like I said S should be used with every combo and it will be infinitely better than WD based combos. I did however say that certain low to zero recoil wheels beat this consistently enough to prove that simple stamina can still beat this easily. Obviously S would have a harder time with other things.

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More results
MF-H Earth Aquario DF145S vs. MF Hell Kerbecs BD145CS(Normal Mode)
Alternated Launches Each Round
Earth: 10/20
HK: 10/20

MF-H Earth Aquario DF145S vs. MF Hell Kerbecs BD145CS (Boost)
Earth: 11/20
HK: 9/20

MF-H Earth Aquario 85S vs. MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD
Earth: 10/20
HK: 10/20

MF-H Earth Aquario 85S vs MF Hell Kerbecs BD145CS
Earth: 10/20
HK: 10/20

S tips are VERY specific and sensitive. When S was launched first in these matches, it lost by a VERY small margin like one rotation. When it was launched second, it won by a large amount. With that said, S can generally take out even the most difficult combos.

Yeah, you're right about this too. Even with a weak launch, S-based variants are going to have a harder time against more customisations than Hell Kerbecs BD145WD. It definitely has more versatility going for it, which makes it a safer choice.

This is precisely why the S combos listed in this thread are useless. One-dimensional combos like these have no place in competitive play because they aren't a safe choice during Stalling Clause. And this is assuming they actually performed as well for everyone as they have been for Bluezee. Like your results, my results show a huge disparity when compared to Bluezee's:

Attack Stadium
BeyLauncher + Launcher Grip for both
Semi-worn WD, mint S
MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD always launched first

MF-H Libra (Mold 2) DF145S vs. MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD (Boost Mode)
MF-H Libra DF145S: 6 wins (6 KO)
MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD: 14 wins (8 KO, 6 OS)
Hell Kerbecs win percentage: 70%

MF-H Earth (Mold 1) Aquario DF145S vs. MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD (Boost Mode)
MF-H Earth Aquario DF145S: 0 wins
MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD: 5 wins (5 OS)
Hell Kerbecs win percentage: 100%

MF-H Earth (Mold 2) Aquario DF145S vs. MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD (Boost Mode)
MF-H Earth Aquario DF145S: 0 wins
MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD: 10 wins (10 OS)
Hell Kerbecs win percentage: 100%

MF-H Basalt Aquario DF145S vs. MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD (Boost Mode)
MF-H Basalt Aquario DF145S: 11 wins (7 KO, 4 OS)
MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD: 9 wins (3 KO, 6 OS)
Hell Kerbecs win percentage: 45%

Sorry, I couldn't be bothered to re-do KOs haha (besides, if I did, the results wouldn't be realistic). Libra and both Earth molds stood no chance. Libra scored some KOs because of it's recoil against Hell's high recoil, but during the matches where Hell outspun it, it wasn't even close.

As the results against Basalt illustrate, Basalt actually gave Hell Kerbecs some trouble. However, this was more so due to Basalt's superior Stamina over Earth/Libra/Hell than it was due to S's "true stamina" abilities. And besides, Hell still had more OS's than Basalt.

Nevertheless, Basalt + S still did surprisingly well, so I decided to test Hell Kerbecs BD145 with CS instead of WD because a) I figured the extra height would help it out and b) Hell Kerbecs BD145CS is superior to Hell Kerbecs BD145WD anyways.

MF-H Basalt Aquario DF145S vs. MF Hell Kerbecs BD145CS (Boost Mode)
MF-H Basalt Aquario DF145S: 1 win (1 OS)
MF Hell Kerbecs BD145CS: 9 wins (2 KO, 7 OS)
Hell Kerbecs win percentage: 90%

Hmm.

S has indeed always had great Stamina, but this is inconsequential if it cannot balance itself at low rotations. Nothing we ever do will change this.

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I've always known the reason why S has been so severely outclassed is balance issues, but against something that can scrape as easily as BD145 (even in Boost mode) the wobbling can help force BD145 into the ground I presume?

When I get a Hell wheel I will test with EDS and S for Libra and Earth.

EDIT: Couldn't this also finally give some use to MS? More stamina, but easier to KO.

No, actually it seems as if recoil from Basalt and Hell keep S in check and BD145 doesn't scrape in Boost mode (okay, but so rarely its a decimal :V) But the wobbling severely hinders Hell BD145, on top of the wobbling that occurs at then end of the round anyway. (I know you've all seen that, right?)

I know you didn't do the testing for Libra or Earth, so this question goes to Bluezee. If what Dan is saying is true about Basalt+Hell's recoil, then what was keeping Earth and Libra upright?

Weight distribution. Libra was always known for having amazing weight distribution and in fact, it was so good that it was banned for a while and was seen as a mistake. The way Libra is designed, a simple tap could bring it back upright under the right conditions. On top of the, S has a round area around the tip which allows it to get back up at times. In Earth's case, it doesn't ever have to worry about getting back up because the difference in spin is so large that it is pretty much still upright by the time HK is down. In the video I will post, you will see this effect.

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Sniper:What? Dude, what are you asking?
This is nice. S can indeed deal some damage by wobbling, but it never can actually win against other combos. Maybe this is it's use? A Hell-Killer? I like the "Real Stamina types use S" line. Nice. But it is true. S was always meant to be the basic Stamina tip, but it never could live up to it's billing.

Uh what? Flame Cancer 145S can beat Earth 100WD.....

This sort of explains why my Inferno Sagittario died, got hit, and came back to life once... Is it normal with that Bey?

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So now will you please get rid of that combo now? I really don't know why it is even top-tier for stamina. Real stamina types use S.

Most epic finishing sentence ever. And bluezee, I did always find MF-F Hell Bull145S better anyways. If u have an extra, would you test it for me please? I would very much like it.

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Bluzee i made a vid of this using ES. It didnt do well would you like me to upload the video.

Most likely no, why ES? S is much more viable than ES. ES cause it to lose balance easily when it gets hit by another bey.

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Most likely no, why ES? S is much more viable than ES. ES cause it to lose balance easily when it gets hit by another bey.

Because i wanted to see if es worked on it. Why else?

S was always better than ES since MFB was born. Read o.o; Hope I wasnt harsh

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S was always better than ES since MFB was born.

IIRC, ES is better then S and BS (it even says so in the WBO's beywiki), its only downfall is that it is taller


Bluezee: i will have to postpone my tests, somehow i can not find either of my WDs

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Libra DF145S VS Hell Kerbecs BD145WD
Libra wins 9 (9 KO)
Hell wins 11 (8KO 3OS)

Libra was constantly knocked off balance by hell.

I just did some informal testing, but I'm getting completely different results....
I can't find my WD at the moment, so I gave the Hell Kerbecs Combination a dis-advantage by using a WB before I tested seriously, and it still won Over MF-H Libra 145S whenever both were kept in the stadium.

And we already recognized that 145 has better stamina than DF145, so I was even partial towards the Libra combination. MF-H Libra 145S was always shot first, as it was supposed to be winning regardless.

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So now will you please get rid of that combo now? I really don't know why it is even top-tier for stamina.

Why would you say this?

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S was always better than ES since MFB was born.

IIRC, ES is better then S and BS (it even says so in the WBO's beywiki), its only downfall is that it is taller


Bluezee: i will have to postpone my tests, somehow i can not find either of my WDs

By solo spin I belive, but not in battle. Is which I am saying.

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Hmm... in our metagame Hell Kerbecks/Bull also keeps getting spammed so we got into our old metagame which is MF Burn Aquario/Bull 85/90 WD/SD(MF because there are heeps of attack type bladers and kids launch same 100% as adult) Please test it

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