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Screw Discussion

Jan. 24, 2011  4:09 PM
 
(Jan. 24, 2011  4:04 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: It's not though... Screw still has attack use and 90 is a very good attack part and MF is looking to be very useful too. Don't know what your definition of bad is but i'd call something like Dark wolf bad. Screw Capricorne is turning out to be a very good bey despite what you think.
My definition of bad is a bey that can only 5 or less wins in a battle against a top teir bey. I agree that Screw still has attack. Sorry if I offended any of you for my STUPITY
Jan. 24, 2011  4:45 PM
 
we need to test R2F and see what happens but in that the case due to Demands for MF Testing with Screw let just give a shot shall we? but before we do that i see R145 isn't doing so well with Screw Capricorn 90MF so that 1 but i think we can do more testing with MF on Screw
Jan. 24, 2011  5:34 PM
 
(Jan. 24, 2011  4:09 PM)NightVirgo8787 Wrote:
(Jan. 24, 2011  4:04 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: It's not though... Screw still has attack use and 90 is a very good attack part and MF is looking to be very useful too. Don't know what your definition of bad is but i'd call something like Dark wolf bad. Screw Capricorne is turning out to be a very good bey despite what you think.
My definition of bad is a bey that can only 5 or less wins in a battle against a top teir bey. I agree that Screw still has attack. Sorry if I offended any of you for my STUPITY

Well that's not. A bad bey is one which is useless/most parts heavily outclassed.
Jan. 24, 2011  5:39 PM
 
(Jan. 24, 2011  5:34 PM)Ultrablader Wrote:
(Jan. 24, 2011  4:09 PM)NightVirgo8787 Wrote:
(Jan. 24, 2011  4:04 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: It's not though... Screw still has attack use and 90 is a very good attack part and MF is looking to be very useful too. Don't know what your definition of bad is but i'd call something like Dark wolf bad. Screw Capricorne is turning out to be a very good bey despite what you think.
My definition of bad is a bey that can only 5 or less wins in a battle against a top teir bey. I agree that Screw still has attack. Sorry if I offended any of you for my STUPITY

Well that's not. A bad bey is one which is useless/most parts heavily outclassed.
Your right. When I 1st heard of MF I said "This is a stupid part. Takara's Finally run out of ideas, so they are making metal versions of others. This will be a horrible part." Once again I was proved wrong by you guys. I'm considering buying it again. Thx
Jan. 24, 2011  6:46 PM
 
Hmm i actually think more testing should be done with some heavy clear wheels & also with 85 track & R2F & a metal face which would give it a lot more weight to give KO's , btw OkiBalze did you test it on a attack stadium or a balance stadium this may have caused some issues , coz balance stadiums are kinda big so it's a bit harder to get a KO , can you please test it with a HF or LRF
Jan. 24, 2011  6:59 PM
 
Shouldn't it be tested with a metal face instead of a normal face bolt?
Jan. 24, 2011  9:08 PM
 
Why? It doesn't need a metal face.
Jan. 24, 2011  9:38 PM
 
I think Auska thinks it should because of MF LLD Pegasis Pre HWS and Vulcan Horuseus
Jan. 24, 2011  9:51 PM
 
(Jan. 24, 2011  9:08 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: Why? It doesn't need a metal face.
let me say for more smash? or more time taking on upper attack with smash? like Ray unicornio 100 RF/R2F
Jan. 24, 2011  9:55 PM
 
(Jan. 24, 2011  9:51 PM)Galaxy4ever Wrote:
(Jan. 24, 2011  9:08 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: Why? It doesn't need a metal face.
let me say for more smash? or more time taking on upper attack with smash? like Ray unicornio 100 RF/R2F

MF's are only used for recoil attackers like lightning ldrago and leon(is screw a recoil attacker i dont know), MFs do not help smash attack, and ray___ 100rf didnt need a MF... <- correct me if i am incorrect and offtopic
Jan. 25, 2011  12:26 AM
 
metal face plz!
oh and to support my thoughts about screw being a destablizer, this video
i don't know if it was posted somewhere
so dont spaz all over me plz
http://www.youtube.com/user/bb18libra#p/u/1/9-2j-9G6Qqg
Jan. 25, 2011  2:19 AM
 
(Jan. 24, 2011  9:55 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote:
(Jan. 24, 2011  9:51 PM)Galaxy4ever Wrote:
(Jan. 24, 2011  9:08 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: Why? It doesn't need a metal face.
let me say for more smash? or more time taking on upper attack with smash? like Ray unicornio 100 RF/R2F

MF's are only used for recoil attackers like lightning ldrago and leon-Thanks you for fixing me Mistake(is screw a recoil attacker i dont know), MFs do not help smash attack, and ray___ 100rf didnt need a MF... <- correct me if i am incorrect and offtopic -your Right
Feb. 10, 2011  9:31 AM
 
Well, I just did some tests. Screw did quite nicely, and, most importantly, it DID exhibit some upper smash. More than a few of the KO's (especially against the RS Defence combo) were from it throwing the opponent out of the stadium, either over a wall, or just generally sending it flying rather high. Of course, sometimes, this upper backfired, and when it failed to lift the opponent, Screw lost a lot of spin, though this mainly occurred against CS. Against RS, it seemed to act as a destabiliser. Kinda cool, though I don't think it's destabiliser material, not enough stamina, and it needs an RF to stay in (using a metal face seems to slow it down too much on already slower tips)
Anyway, my actual testing:

All testing under standard conditions, TT-Attack, Beylauncher, Defense launched first, at the centre, Screw launched sliding, RF a bit newer than perfect, so a little hard to control, but that's a tradeoff for a little extra speed. My CS moves a little, but the rubber is quite worn, so it's mostly stamina.
My RS is in pretty much ideal shape.

I used Pisces on Screw as it properly exposes Screw's wings. I think this is a big factor in it's upper attack. Plus, I think Screw looks great for a Shark beyblade.

Earth and Aquario are Hasbro. YES, Hasbro's Aquario is HEAVIER than their bull, before anyone asks, so that's why I used it. Pisces is hasbro too, for that matter.

There is NO Metal Face on Screw, because it doesn't have enough recoil to warrant it. The only Recoil KO's it suffered also threw it's opponent out, and, frankly, it left the stadium after the opponent, but I called them draws anyway. All Draws were like that.

Anyway, results

Screw Pisces 90RF

vs MF-H Earth Aquario GB145RS
Screw: 6/10, 5 KO, 1 OS (through destabilising)
Earth: 4/10, all OS
1 Draw (Double KO)
Screw Win Rate: 60%

Vs MF-H Earth Aquario GB145CS
Screw: 5/10, all KO
Earth: 5/10, all OS
2 Draws, both double KO
Screw Win Rate: 50%

So, yeah. Not too shabby, not top tier, but definitely not bad. Probably the best attack wheel outside top tier. It's better than what I recall from my experience with Ray.

And NO, MF's are only used to reduce recoil if a bey suffers from too many self KO's (Screw Doesn't). Otherwise, they only serve to slow the attacker down, making it less effective. Yes, more mass=more force, but it also results in less velocity, the other component of force, in our case. Each wheel needs a certain balance between speed and recoil. Screw is fine without an MF, as evidenced by it's lack of a need for a metal face.
It's the same reason we don't use MF-H for attack, as a normal MF is sufficient.

Even on heavy recoil attackers like MF Gravity Perseus R145RF, we don't use MF-H, as it slows it down too much for no gain.
Feb. 10, 2011  1:21 PM
 
Wouldn't have thought that MF could be outspinned by a rubber bottom defence combo.
Feb. 10, 2011  6:29 PM
 
(Feb. 10, 2011  1:21 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: Wouldn't have thought that MF could be outspinned by a rubber bottom defence combo.

Depends, mfh vulcan horuseus 90mf gets stopped dead by mfh libra bd145rs, losing so much spin on collision, and being unable to avoid the centre of the stadium long enough to avoid libra.

But, uhh, I'm not sure who you're referring to, Cos I used rf.
Feb. 10, 2011  6:43 PM
 
Sorry I thought I saw MF for some reason.
Feb. 10, 2011  6:54 PM
 
Why wouldn't you use a metal face for attacking. The whole point of it is to add weight.

Think of it as a little kid running into you compared to a fat kid running into you. Chances are the fat kid will move you more than the little kid.
Feb. 10, 2011  6:57 PM
 
(Feb. 10, 2011  6:54 PM)Otsu Wrote: Why wouldn't you use a metal face for attacking. The whole point of it is to add weight.

Think of it as a little kid running into you compared to a fat kid running into you. Chances are the fat kid will move you more than the little kid.

wrong, attack types need speed (imagine a train moving slowly and it hits a car, almost nothing will happen, but if that train moves fast it will smash the car) and a metal face slows it down (take to equal runners and give one 20 LB in each hand, which will run faster and farther) but for recoil attackers MFs are good as it deceases the recoil <- offtopic
Feb. 10, 2011  7:23 PM
 
Except the fat kid nudges you, while the slightly lighter kid runs full tilt.
Seriously, it's a simple idea. MF's are used to decrease recoil, that is all. For attack, we want speed, it's why we use rf instead of, say, MB. That weight is useless if the bey doesn't move (yes, ounds an extreme case, but the whole thing is getting the balance right).

Anyway, I'm gonna leave this before I get frustrated, my new job/department (night fill, 7pm-midnight) is exhausting, and my temper is short. If you can't understand the physics, feel free to use a metal face yourself, but I'mma use my understanding of this basic concept, and continue to (use) screw without mf's. Screw with mf's, it just don't work.
Feb. 10, 2011  8:34 PM
 
But the attacker is going down a slope to reach its target. Like bob sledding. Hasn't anyone seen cool running? Haha.
Feb. 10, 2011  10:22 PM
 
pls try screw as a destabilizer and stamina
Feb. 11, 2011  12:22 AM
 
(Feb. 10, 2011  9:31 AM)MeteorKing Wrote: Against RS, it seemed to act as a destabiliser. Kinda cool, though I don't think it's destabiliser material, not enough stamina, and it needs an RF to stay in (using a metal face seems to slow it down too much on already slower tips)

Screw Pisces 90RF

vs MF-H Earth Aquario GB145RS
Screw: 6/10, 5 KO, 1 OS (through destabilising)
Earth: 4/10, all OS
1 Draw (Double KO)
Screw Win Rate: 60%

Anything on a low Track will "destabilize" to some degree, especially against a Bottom with such horrible balance like RS.

Those results against RS are fairly impressive. I'm curious as to how you achieved them when OkiBlaze's tests showed that even against CS it did not fair as well, and additionally, I'm fairly sure that even Vulcan does not perform that well against RS.
Feb. 11, 2011  5:35 AM
 
CS seems to do better than RS in my tests, too. Given screws shape, maybe stability helps? Maybe I got lucky, but yeah, it dominated the first five rounds, and won the eighth with a huge ko from memory. I dunno how it turned out that way, but that's what I got. I think I have quite a strong launch, if that helps.
I'm aware of the low-track destabilising thing, but yeah, it's just a side note, and as I said, I don't see screw working as a destabiliser, effectively, at least.

I think cw choice may be a big factor, pisces doesn't interfere with the shape of screw. That's my best guess. I don't think we consider clear wheels enough, especially on low track attackers.
Feb. 11, 2011  9:52 AM
 
So, I was testing with a metal face on screw, because seriously, I'm sick of you people being wrong. Actually, screws performance against CS Improved by 20%, and looked significantly better. Enough that I re-tested it again without a metal face. In my original testing, I had a stretch of four rounds where screw become lame. I don't know what happened, maybe I messed up my launch, but yeah, it was odd. I'm posting these results, but I'll leave the old ones up for the sake of being transparent (although if anyone thinks that I'm so fussed that I'd botch results, well, I'm a science student, all I care about is finding out the correct answer. If I do anything like that, I get a FAIL.)
Anyway, on repeating the tests, I got the same result as with a metal face.
Screw looked deadly today.

Against RS, the metal face was worse. In both cases, it had far, far less stamina than without an MF, and didn't move enough. Most of screw's KO's are two hit, in the first it hits the beyblade towards a pit, then chases it and smashes it out. With a metal face, against RS, it couldn't manage it.

Actually, the weird thing was, with an MF, it actually got KO'd by Earth Aquario on RS once. Maybe it didn't hit hard enough to overcome inertia or something, maybe it was lucky. It was a normal launch, and the KO wasn't launch related, it happened a little further into the battle. I dunno, chance, maybe.

Anyway, results.
Conditions and Parts exactly the same as before, RF maybe slightly improved.

MF Screw Pisces 90RF
VS
MF-H Earth Aquario GB145RS
SP: 3/10, all KO
EA: 7/10, 6OS 1 KO
Metal Face SP win Rate: 30% (-30%)

Now, things got odd:
Vs
MF-H Earth Aquario GB145CS
SP: 7/10, All KO
EA: 3/10, All OS

So, I re-did my Non-Metal Face test. I find these results more likely than my originals, especially given the results against RS.

So, NO METAL FACE:
Screw Pisces 90RF vs
MF-H Earth Aquario GB145CS
SP: 7/10, All KO
EA: 3/10, ALL OS
SP Win Rate: 70% Grin Grin Grin

In the 9th round, it hit Aquario so hard it hit my amp (about 70 cm away), and then bounced off the grill cloth. Either that or the huge impact that sent it flying cracked the screw-in area of my GB145, but it still holds together decently.


So, when I said screw lacked top tier potential, I LIED. Though, I don't think it'll do so well against LTSC's or LTDC's, and obviously, 230 would kill it, as from what I can see (though it's just a guess), it should work best on tracks too low to cause 230 any trouble. But yeah, it was Monstrous, it sent things flying. Yeah.

EDIT: Actually, it's throwing around Earth Aquario 85WD quite nicely. Not gonna test it properly right now, as I have other stuff to do. But yeah.
Feb. 12, 2011  12:08 AM
 
I am liking this! Maybe it will be close to Vulcan for attack! Has anyone tested this with MF? I mean, we know that it'll outspin RSF and RS, but what about CS? Oh! And could Screw be used for anything but attack?
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