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[STD] MF-L Duo Cancer F230RDF

Jul. 24, 2014  6:07 PM
 
Just what we needed, another combo that uses everyone's favorite part. Tired

Seriously though, I came up with this idea after Tri's MF-L Burn Cancer F230CS did so well for me in Limited, so I tired to make a Standard variation. I also had some inspiration from Wolborg 2's base, since if a rubber Bearing Drive existed it might be the most broken MFB part ever created. F230RDF is as close as we'll get to that, and for the most part, it works. I actually planned to drop this on someone (specifically TheBlackDragon's Balro MF combo) during Return of the Plastics - Standard, but got eliminated before I could use it.

Part Explanation
MF-L: gives the custom some more weight while not sacrificing too much Stamina. Plus I always use MF-L on my Stamina types, even though this is more of a hybrid. MF-H and Normal Face will probably work too, but I didn't test them.
Cancer: Generic Stamina CW. While I don't have Cygnus, I assume it would work just fine as a replacement.
Duo: For Stamina and its smooth shape. also it overhangs the Track a bit to help against destabilization, something that Killerken or Genbull didn't do so well with.
F230: Free spin allows the custom to take full advantage of RDF's precession.
RDF: For its defensive capabilities, as well as precession.


NOTES: In these tests a Hasbro Orange F230 was used. Also I'm not very good with Attack types. Since the free-spin of F230 varies, I'll have a link to a video of mine up ASAP.

EDIT: the link

Tests:

Equipment
Beylauncher L/R and Beylauncher R, both on 3-segment grips
BB-10
Alternating launches for Duo Cancer vs. Stamina
Duo Cancer launched first vs. Attack


Vs. Attack
Spoiler (Click to View)

Vs. Defense
Spoiler (Click to View)

Vs. Stamina
Spoiler (Click to View)

Vs. Balance
Spoiler (Click to View)

Echizen's testing
Spoiler (Click to View)

DrPepsidew's testing
Spoiler (Click to View)

~Midnight~'s testing
Spoiler (Click to View)

Overall
MF-L Duo Cancer F230RDF beats Revizer Defense and Balro MF consistently. Even for me Wyvang Attack killed it, and it auto-loses to Dragooon Spin Stealers. It breaks about even with non-Wyvang attack, tall Track Genbull Stamina, and Wyvang RSF. Tests using a TT Orange F230 would be greatly appreciated. I only own one F230, RDF, Dragooon, Duo and Wyvang, so please keep that in mind when asking for certain matchups.
Jul. 24, 2014  6:25 PM
 
Lol I like how you wrote Edit: but didn't edit anything, haha.

This combo sounded really amazing. But then I looked at the tests... I don't see why you made a thread for this. You were bad with attack, yet it gets 30% agaisnt it, I'd hate to see someone that does well with attack. Since, this is a Stamina-Defens eoriented combo, of course it will defeat Defense. The Stamina results aren't very good. You have one balance testing result.

I'd like to see more Balance testings and someone else do some more Attack tests; no offense.
Jul. 24, 2014  7:09 PM
 
Ooh Ooh Ooh! I tried this exact same thing back this Spring!

I guess great minds think alike.

Just for the record, before I say anything, this combo is really fun.

However, I didn't get the same Stamina results, and Attack pretty much destroyed it. Sure, it'd be a decent counter to MSF-L Balro Balro BD145MF, but it really isn't all that great against anything else.

It would work as a niche counter to some things, though.
Jul. 24, 2014  8:44 PM
 
Woot, another combo utilizing F230 not on GCF, or CF, though for this time, it's for Standard. Wink

On another note, as I did like how it was able to get good results off of MSF-L Balro Balro BD145MF, as TBD said, it really didn't get any other relatively decent scores, though for the most, it was able to get wins the slightest bit higher than 10 for some most other battles. It was quite clear that the Dragoon_SA165 (tips like EWD or W2D, etc.) for able to kill this: In a way, that specific testing result is kind of like the results you'd see from Duo_TH170/SR200/230 TB, as Duo is on a higher track. Not only that, RDF lacks in Stamina, as well.

Anyways, I should be able to get some results using the Hasbro Orange F230 sometime soon, as I'm still looking for it.
Jul. 24, 2014  9:11 PM
 
Would you like someone to test those attack battles...
Jul. 24, 2014  9:36 PM
 
@Echizen: did you not read the words I wrote? No offense, but I did say that it was a Hasbro Orange F230. An Orange TT F230 could probably bring the Vs. Genbull TB and Wyvang RSF rate to around 75-80%, destroy Left Spin Attack, and put a dent in those stationary SA165s. If you have a TT Orange I'd appreciate if you would test as well.

@TBD: I'm not surprised Attack destroyed it, but I am surprised you didn't get the same Stamina results. I know for a fact you have a good TT Orange F230 (and you just won another), and you're a much better blader than I am, so your results should be better than mine.

midnight: more or less the same thing I told Echizen. Don't think that "this is the best he can do, even with F230", but think more along the lines of "If Hasbro F230 can go 50/50 with most things, just imagine what TT's could do to them".

I agree these aren't that impressive, but you can all see how bad my F230 is. If someone tests with a TT F230 this combo could be a legitimate threat. Especially vs Dragooon F230GCF.
Jul. 24, 2014  10:10 PM
 
Attack Testing:

MSF-H Balro Wyvang GB145R2F Vs. MF-L Duo Gasher F230RDF

BW: 12(All KO)
DG: 8(1KO, 7OS)
Ties: 1

MF-L Duo Gasher Win Percentage: 40%


Stamina Testing:

Killerken Genbull SA165EWD Vs. MF-L Duo Gasher F230RDF

KG: 10(All OS)
DG: 0
Ties: 0

MF-L Duo Gasher Win Percentage: 0%

Killerken Dragooon SA165EWD Vs. MF-L Duo Gasher F230RDF

KD: 10(All OS)
DG: 0
Ties: 2

MF-L Duo Gasher Win Percentage: 0%


Balance Testing:

MSF-H Balro Wyvang BD145RSF Vs. MF-L Duo Gasher F230RDF

BW: 11(9 KO, 2OS)
DG: 9(All OS)
Ties: 1

MF-L Duo Gasher Win Percentage: 45%
Jul. 26, 2014  6:28 AM
 
i dont really understand the concept of this combo...can somebody explain it to me?
Jul. 26, 2014  6:44 AM
 
I mean, reading the OP throughouly helps, but basically F230 takes advantage of RDF's precession and defensive capabilities to OS varius combos via destabilization because of Duo.
Jul. 26, 2014  7:01 AM
 
Updated OP with Echizen's tests.

DrPepsidew: Yes, I would appreciate more tests, especially if you have a TT Orange F230.

Can anyone match this up against MSF-H Genbull Dragooon F230GCF? I doubt it will win but I can see it making a dent in it, especially if you launch RDF aggressively.
Jul. 26, 2014  3:44 PM
 
I don't think this would make a dent in an F230CF custom. Way too tall (not to mention F230's free-spinning function seriously hinders RDF's aggression, and Duo doesn't have all that much smash to offer, so...).

2c
Jul. 26, 2014  6:41 PM
 
(Jul. 26, 2014  3:44 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: I don't think this would make a dent in an F230CF custom. Way too tall (not to mention F230's free-spinning function seriously hinders RDF's aggression, and Duo doesn't have all that much smash to offer, so...).

2c


That actually makes me think that a Hasbro F230 might help this combo if you are wanting to get the nost aggression out of RDF since it does not freely spin as well. That was actually a part of the Burn F230CS combo I posted about (and that I dont own a TT orange Tongue_out). The precession time shouldn't altered to much especially since RDF does good even on things like BD145, which dont freely spin at all.
Jul. 26, 2014  8:10 PM
 
(Jul. 26, 2014  3:44 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: I don't think this would make a dent in an F230CF custom. Way too tall (not to mention F230's free-spinning function seriously hinders RDF's aggression, and Duo doesn't have all that much smash to offer, so...).

2c

It might. The idea behind that was that you use the short burst of aggression to hit Genbull Dragooon at the beginning of the battle. If you KO it, that's cool but I was thinking of breaking its stall pattern and forcing it to hit you, so it would come down to whether Duo F230RDF can OS Dragooon F230GCF. Duo F230RDF is not "way too tall" either. True, RDF is that one Tip that's awkwardly in between short tips like D and SD and tall tips like MB and R2F, so it's taller than GCF, but Duo's overhang makes up for the raised Synchrom so they hit at about the same height. Unless you're using Wyvang on the bottom I don't think Dragooon GCF has the power to KO RDF.
Jul. 29, 2014  8:05 PM
 
It doesn't have to KO it. 230 is too tall a height for any Bottom besides CF/GCF to work effectively as a spin-stealing part (yes, the height matchup is great for Duo, but without the Precession/LAD to handle the most potent zombie setup in the game, it doesn't really matter). Dragooon F230CF/GCF would out-spin this 100% of the time, regardless of how much you knocked it around.

The only feasible path to victory would be to KO, but I'm pretty sure that's next to impossible with something as passive as Duo.
Jul. 29, 2014  11:57 PM
 
Which is why you use a Wyvang Tank *Puts shades on.*
I'll test against my Wyvang combo, and then Balro^2 BD145 MF

VS Wyvang^2 SA165 (Attack) RF
DG win rate: 15% (2 OS, 1 KO)
Wyvang (All KO)

VS MSF-H Balro^2 BD145 MF
DG win rate: 20% (All OS)
Balro (13 OS, 3 KO)
Jul. 30, 2014  12:28 AM
 
(Jul. 29, 2014  11:57 PM)DrPepsidew Wrote: Which is why you use a Wyvang Tank *Puts shades on.*
I'll test against my Wyvang combo, and then Balro^2 BD145 MF

VS Wyvang^2 SA165 (Attack) RF
DG win rate: 15% (2 OS, 1 KO)
Wyvang (All KO)

VS MSF-H Balro^2 BD145 MF
DG win rate: 20% (All OS)
Balro (13 OS, 3 KO)

Thanks for the tests. Was there anything special you did to get Balro to OS it so many times, since we got such different results?
Jul. 30, 2014  1:17 AM
 
Tornado stall, that's all Uncertain
Jul. 30, 2014  1:26 AM
 
BTW, guys, Balro BD145MF works much better with MSF-L. MSF-H can seriously kill its stall time.

Just for future reference.
Jul. 30, 2014  1:53 AM
 
Thanks, I didn't bother checking XD
Jul. 30, 2014  4:34 AM
 
So I did some more tests today using MSF-L on Balro, Tornado Stalled as hard as I could, and still couldn't get it to OS Duo. Duo went 10-0 and after a whole bunch of other informal rounds I got them to tie once.
Here are some videos, for those who don't believe me.
Jul. 30, 2014  4:40 AM
 
It could be your Metal Flat. If it's too worn the stall won't work properly.

Are the Balros perfectly balanced? If they're not, try turning the Track 180 degrees and re-attaching it. The Chrome Wheels need to be balanced perfectly for the combo to perform at its best (which usually isn't a problem, but discrepancies between wheels and such can throw it off).
Jul. 30, 2014  4:56 AM
 
Well I stood up Balro on the MF, and then took it apart and rotated the track 180 degrees. Then I couldn't get it to stand up. So while I didn't know about this at first it looks like I guessed right.

Maybe my MF is worn, but metal tips are the hardest to wear so I don't think it could make that much of a difference. I cleaned both tips off in between rounds too.
Jul. 30, 2014  5:16 AM
 
Another factor, are you utilizing the sliding shoot?
Jul. 30, 2014  5:22 AM
 
No, I said I was Tornado Stalling.
Jul. 30, 2014  7:27 AM
 
You can sliding shoot INTO a tornado stall.
#themoreyouknow
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