And what, pray tell, is your point, exactly? I'm arguing for predictability and balanced performance levels between the types, what are YOU arguing for? If you want to make a point, then go produce test results in the DB stadium showing something like Impact, Sword, Xceed, Shot, ETC having similar or better win rates than Quick' and X' in the Standard stadium. Hell, try doing it with Adventure, literally the newest attack driver to date.

I'll admit that you're right about one thing, though: I haven't tested, because I personally don't own a DB stadium. If I had one, I'd be more than happy to break out my beys and do some in-depth testing. However, I don't own one because I don't feel like spending $50+ on something I don't have storage for, that isn't (and most likely won't be) usable for tournaments, and that would ultimately be a hindrance to my collection.

As for why people are "still" using Quick' and X'? It's because TT hasn't released a good attack driver in years, instead opting to pump out burst resistant, high LAD drivers like Bearing', Metal Drift, Zone'+Z, High Xt+', (not to mention this unholy abomination), etc. Not to mention, Attack drivers have largely been left in the dust, while stamina and LAD keeps getting stronger.

But sure, let's use a stadium with less pockets and a deeper bowl, that is almost universally understood as being a hindrance to attack types. Literally look at any comparison between the DB and Standard stadiums. The only thing it's got going for it is that it's bigger, and at that point it's got more in common with the Limit Break DX stadium than the Standard stadium.

So I believe I stated that I’m going off of the other people in this threads experience saying they’ve had positive results using destroy’ and Venture +V and possibly some others. If those results can’t create a balanced meta than like I said, this point is moot, at least in regards to this stadium. What I protest in your argument is the traditionalism mentality of “prove it first and then we’ll try something”. 

My main hope is I wish this community would take a broader approach, at the *very* least in its language, to what a balanced meta means and looks like, and not be entirely married to old ways of looking at things. We should be trying to find ways to include more stadiums, not exclude everything that plays differently than we are used to. I hope we can agree on that point. 

Like I said, from a newbie outsiders perspective, it looks like the WBO painted itself into a corner and refuses to consider finding a way out unless it’s on xtreme’.

*cries in hand*
Love it.

---

Hi,
I'm Mike
I'm a professional Beyblader

YOUTUBE || INSTAGRAM || BLADER'S KINGDOM

Use code 'BEYBLADEORBURST' & save money @ Four-Gaming, MallOfToys, Beys&Bricks, & Ever-Wish

I want db in standard exactly as much as I would like $10 Hasbro stadiums in standard. IMO the only justification to legalise them is wanting more stadiums available at any cost. I'm totally fine with legalising all stadiums, maybe doing some kind of event tiering where different rulesets affect rank differently or something but maybe not.
At the end of the day though, that has never been the WBOs main goal as I've understood it. Whether that is a goal worth changing is a big discussion. As it is, we have a better alternative in HasPro (which actually seems to encourage people to play more aggressively, reducing LAD battle frequency without having sweeping impacts on how the game is played, and therefore probably being close enough to merge into the existing beyranks and format without too many complaints I think?)

Maybe we should move away from 20 years of rubber flats into far less interesting and accountable attack types... But speaking for myself, I'd rather not play that format. I love using weird creative stuff but man, the DB stadium is just not engaging to play in IMO. I use Metal tipped attack/stamina combos in plastics. I'm not one dimensional... But nothing feels like I'm accountable for my launch in there due to the dish design. It feels...

You know what, I've got it. It feels just like a Hasbro gimmick stadium. I don't mind playing in them occasionally (actually I love one or two of them). This is like one of the more boring ones though. 😅



Anyway,

I like the idea of mode change for starters it gives QD more of a reason to use since the entire point of the drivers is based on mode changes so that be pretty cool. It also gives a good chance for DB stuff with Low and High since I personally feel like it could get to some REAL interesting matchups that would be great to see. Also thinking of standard even if Qt is not crazy (pray for Qt' TT) it also allows that driver to have real use. Of course, I would want to see a trial run of the idea to see if it works out but on paper it sounds really cool. 

You could even switch Nx+S to free spin from fixed if you wanted to for whatever reason, it honestly just spices up the game. I think the more we explore things like that which Crisis did a good job with their proposal the more we can enjoy a meta and have fun.

Exactly. I mean to me it's a matter of 1) TT and Hasbro designed these gimmicks and generally intended for them to be used and 2) The dual spin layers I believe this was done over no longer present the same threat. It may give a buff to dual spin drift but those aren't always super optimal anyway.

I would *love* to see a test tournament with this rule in particular. CrisisCrusher07 suuurely test tournament in MD with this rule? I feel like given how tired people are of Drift there, if anyone is gonna hate it, it'll be you guys right? (I mean this in the nicest possible way, by the way, I don't know if I'd want the rule approved without trying it in MD specifically because you guys are vocally tired of LAD).

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I want db in standard exactly as much as I would like $10 Hasbro stadiums in standard. IMO the only justification to legalise them is wanting more stadiums available at any cost. I'm totally fine with legalising all stadiums, maybe doing some kind of event tiering where different rulesets affect rank differently or something but maybe not.
At the end of the day though, that has never been the WBOs main goal as I've understood it. Whether that is a goal worth changing is a big discussion. As it is, we have a better alternative in HasPro (which actually seems to encourage people to play more aggressively, reducing LAD battle frequency without having sweeping impacts on how the game is played, and therefore probably being close enough to merge into the existing beyranks and format without too many complaints I think?)

Maybe we should move away from 20 years of rubber flats into far less interesting and accountable attack types... But speaking for myself, I'd rather not play that format. I love using weird creative stuff but man, the DB stadium is just not engaging to play in IMO. I use Metal tipped attack/stamina combos in plastics. I'm not one dimensional... But nothing feels like I'm accountable for my launch in there due to the dish design. It feels...

You know what, I've got it. It feels just like a Hasbro gimmick stadium. I don't mind playing in them occasionally (actually I love one or two of them). This is like one of the more boring ones though. 😅



Anyway,

I like the idea of mode change for starters it gives QD more of a reason to use since the entire point of the drivers is based on mode changes so that be pretty cool. It also gives a good chance for DB stuff with Low and High since I personally feel like it could get to some REAL interesting matchups that would be great to see. Also thinking of standard even if Qt is not crazy (pray for Qt' TT) it also allows that driver to have real use. Of course, I would want to see a trial run of the idea to see if it works out but on paper it sounds really cool. 

You could even switch Nx+S to free spin from fixed if you wanted to for whatever reason, it honestly just spices up the game. I think the more we explore things like that which Crisis did a good job with their proposal the more we can enjoy a meta and have fun.

Exactly. I mean to me it's a matter of 1) TT and Hasbro designed these gimmicks and generally intended for them to be used and 2) The dual spin layers I believe this was done over no longer present the same threat. It may give a buff to dual spin drift but those aren't always super optimal anyway.

I would *love* to see a test tournament with this rule in particular. CrisisCrusher07 suuurely test tournament in MD with this rule? I feel like given how tired people are of Drift there, if anyone is gonna hate it, it'll be you guys right? (I mean this in the nicest possible way, by the way, I don't know if I'd want the rule approved without trying it in MD specifically because you guys are vocally tired of LAD).

So I was thinking about rubber flats again and I think TT has done all they can with them, they can’t evolve anymore. They’ve done the following:

Small Rubber: Hunter
Medium: Quick
Large: Xtreme
XL: Evolution
Semi Rounded: Variable
Rubber Core w/ Plastic Outer: Xceed
Rounded: Keep
Plastic Center w/ Rubber Ring: Venture
Spikey: Jolt

I think that’s about all that can be done for it. I would like to see a rubber bearing though on a wolborg of course.




—

I would love to see a tournament with these rules in MD. I say each “blading hub” hosts one tournament with these rules all in the same month so the data pours in swiftly.

---

Hi,
I'm Mike
I'm a professional Beyblader

YOUTUBE || INSTAGRAM || BLADER'S KINGDOM

Use code 'BEYBLADEORBURST' & save money @ Four-Gaming, MallOfToys, Beys&Bricks, & Ever-Wish

I want db in standard exactly as much as I would like $10 Hasbro stadiums in standard. IMO the only justification to legalise them is wanting more stadiums available at any cost. I'm totally fine with legalising all stadiums, maybe doing some kind of event tiering where different rulesets affect rank differently or something but maybe not.
At the end of the day though, that has never been the WBOs main goal as I've understood it. Whether that is a goal worth changing is a big discussion. As it is, we have a better alternative in HasPro (which actually seems to encourage people to play more aggressively, reducing LAD battle frequency without having sweeping impacts on how the game is played, and therefore probably being close enough to merge into the existing beyranks and format without too many complaints I think?)

Maybe we should move away from 20 years of rubber flats into far less interesting and accountable attack types... But speaking for myself, I'd rather not play that format. I love using weird creative stuff but man, the DB stadium is just not engaging to play in IMO. I use Metal tipped attack/stamina combos in plastics. I'm not one dimensional... But nothing feels like I'm accountable for my launch in there due to the dish design. It feels...

You know what, I've got it. It feels just like a Hasbro gimmick stadium. I don't mind playing in them occasionally (actually I love one or two of them). This is like one of the more boring ones though. 😅



Anyway,


Exactly. I mean to me it's a matter of 1) TT and Hasbro designed these gimmicks and generally intended for them to be used and 2) The dual spin layers I believe this was done over no longer present the same threat. It may give a buff to dual spin drift but those aren't always super optimal anyway.

I would *love* to see a test tournament with this rule in particular. CrisisCrusher07 suuurely test tournament in MD with this rule? I feel like given how tired people are of Drift there, if anyone is gonna hate it, it'll be you guys right? (I mean this in the nicest possible way, by the way, I don't know if I'd want the rule approved without trying it in MD specifically because you guys are vocally tired of LAD).

So I was thinking about rubber flats again and I think TT has done all they can with them, they can’t evolve anymore. They’ve done the following:

Small Rubber: Hunter
Medium: Quick
Large: Xtreme
XL: Evolution
Semi Rounded: Variable
Rubber Core w/ Plastic Outer: Xceed
Rounded: Keep
Plastic Center w/ Rubber Ring: Venture
Spikey: Jolt

I think that’s about all that can be done for it. I would like to see a rubber bearing though on a wolborg of course.




—

I would love to see a tournament with these rules in MD. I say each “blading hub” hosts one tournament with these rules all in the same month so the data pours in swiftly.

TT may agree that the have, but I don't. The missing piece of the puzzle from TT is a TT version of Hunter-S, which is basically as wide as you can make a rubber flat while keeping it mostly controllable, which hasbro do in decent rubber. A softer jl', v' and ev' would be good too. Hn-S is a wonderful thing... It's like pushing the limit of what's possible, you're redlining a Ferrari. Everything is just barely holding together, but it's incredible.

That said, they won't, because the DB stadium's design means there is no real way for soft rubber flats to function properly. Which begs the question of why they released MX at all if they intended it to be used in DB 🤔

Anyhow, what sort of impact do you think the mode change proposal would have. You play around with a lot of weird and wonderful stuff, any cool spice?

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

So I was thinking about rubber flats again and I think TT has done all they can with them, they can’t evolve anymore. They’ve done the following:

Small Rubber: Hunter
Medium: Quick
Large: Xtreme
XL: Evolution
Semi Rounded: Variable
Rubber Core w/ Plastic Outer: Xceed
Rounded: Keep
Plastic Center w/ Rubber Ring: Venture
Spikey: Jolt

I think that’s about all that can be done for it. I would like to see a rubber bearing though on a wolborg of course.




—

I would love to see a tournament with these rules in MD. I say each “blading hub” hosts one tournament with these rules all in the same month so the data pours in swiftly.

TT may agree that the have, but I don't. The missing piece of the puzzle from TT is a TT version of Hunter-S, which is basically as wide as you can make a rubber flat while keeping it mostly controllable, which hasbro do in decent rubber. A softer jl', v' and ev' would be good too. Hn-S is a wonderful thing... It's like pushing the limit of what's possible, you're redlining a Ferrari. Everything is just barely holding together, but it's incredible.

That said, they won't, because the DB stadium's design means there is no real way for soft rubber flats to function properly. Which begs the question of why they released MX at all if they intended it to be used in DB 🤔

Anyhow, what sort of impact do you think the mode change proposal would have. You play around with a lot of weird and wonderful stuff, any cool spice?

Mode changes, in my opinion, would allow for parts to be used to their fullest potential. Just say with Zone + Z, if you lose the first battle with the chip on because it was same spin then take it off for the second and win you made a solid strategic move with the parts you chose. I like the Infinite layer a lot, I should be able to change to defense or speed mode if I think it'll help me win. Same with dual spin layers, why not be able to swap it to the opposite spin? I can see drift or bearing being annoying if the opposite just changes spin to counter you and get the LAD finish but that'll add more depth to the game while you're making your combos.

---

Hi,
I'm Mike
I'm a professional Beyblader

YOUTUBE || INSTAGRAM || BLADER'S KINGDOM

Use code 'BEYBLADEORBURST' & save money @ Four-Gaming, MallOfToys, Beys&Bricks, & Ever-Wish

Actually that makes me think - one thing we would need to do is that in deck, to make any disassembly changes if you lose the previous battle, you should still have to call that you are changing combo? I think otherwise it's a little too easy for dual spin to get a free win back.

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Actually that makes me think - one thing we would need to do is that in deck, to make any disassembly changes if you lose the previous battle, you should still have to call that you are changing combo? I think otherwise it's a little too easy for dual spin to get a free win back.

Sounds similar to how fighting games go in the arcade, the winner has to stick with there same character and the loser can change up.

---

Hi,
I'm Mike
I'm a professional Beyblader

YOUTUBE || INSTAGRAM || BLADER'S KINGDOM

Use code 'BEYBLADEORBURST' & save money @ Four-Gaming, MallOfToys, Beys&Bricks, & Ever-Wish

…Maybe we should move away from 20 years of rubber flats into far less interesting and accountable attack types... But speaking for myself, I'd rather not play that format. I love using weird creative stuff but man, the DB stadium is just not engaging to play in IMO. I use Metal tipped attack/stamina combos in plastics. I'm not one dimensional... But nothing feels like I'm accountable for my launch in there due to the dish design. It feels... 

You know what, I've got it. It feels just like a Hasbro gimmick stadium. I don't mind playing in them occasionally (actually I love one or two of them). This is like one of the more boring ones though. 😅…

So to me this is where we shouldn’t be holding a standard of opinion, but a standard of healthy competitive meta. It doesn’t matter when determining policy if we think it’ll be fun personally, let the tournament organizers and attendee’s determine that locally. If people hate the DB stadium it’ll naturally not get played. But banning it from competitions is only justifiable if the meta is badly unbalanced imho. “We on this forum don’t like it” isn’t a good reason. You know what I hated when I started? Playing in a stadium where all but a small number of hard to control attack drivers threw themselves out of the arena more often than not. I’ve gotten a decent launch now, but I legitimately almost stopped being interested in the hobby when I got my standard stadium, as I didn’t have any rubber drivers and didn’t realize how important they were. And I’m sure I’m not the only person who experienced that. Raising the skill floor for attack types is, imho, a very good for the long term health of the game as attack is obviously the most exciting part of the game, particularly for new players. It’s not like we’re getting rid of the HasPro or B-09 either, this particular kind of attack won’t go away. 

Honestly, my favorite stadium is the giant TT stadium, as I think it’s shape encourages action more than any other stadium, but that’s obviously not more accessible for anyone and I’ve never played in it with someone else so it may just be like that solo 😅

2¢ more from me

…Maybe we should move away from 20 years of rubber flats into far less interesting and accountable attack types... But speaking for myself, I'd rather not play that format. I love using weird creative stuff but man, the DB stadium is just not engaging to play in IMO. I use Metal tipped attack/stamina combos in plastics. I'm not one dimensional... But nothing feels like I'm accountable for my launch in there due to the dish design. It feels... 

You know what, I've got it. It feels just like a Hasbro gimmick stadium. I don't mind playing in them occasionally (actually I love one or two of them). This is like one of the more boring ones though. 😅…

So to me this is where we shouldn’t be holding a standard of opinion, but a standard of healthy competitive meta. It doesn’t matter when determining policy if we think it’ll be fun personally, let the tournament organizers and attendee’s determine that locally. If people hate the DB stadium it’ll naturally not get played. But banning it from competitions is only justifiable if the meta is badly unbalanced imho. “We on this forum don’t like it” isn’t a good reason. You know what I hated when I started? Playing in a stadium where all but a small number of hard to control attack drivers threw themselves out of the arena more often than not. I’ve gotten a decent launch now, but I legitimately almost stopped being interested in the hobby when I got my standard stadium, as I didn’t have any rubber drivers and didn’t realize how important they were. And I’m sure I’m not the only person who experienced that. Raising the skill floor for attack types is, imho, a very good for the long term health of the game as attack is obviously the most exciting part of the game, particularly for new players. It’s not like we’re getting rid of the HasPro or B-09 either, this particular kind of attack won’t go away. 

Honestly, my favorite stadium is the giant TT stadium, as I think it’s shape encourages action more than any other stadium, but that’s obviously not more accessible for anyone and I’ve never played in it with someone else so it may just be like that solo 😅

2¢ more from me

My personal opinion just happens to be one which enjoys rubber Attack drivers and I was specifically saying that we could do what you're suggesting, that comment wasn't sarcastic though I can see how the wording may sound that way - sorry for being unclear. I'm just saying that I feel the stadium is boring to play in, and feels like a Hasbro gimmick stadium. I would say that it's fine to legalise it if we broadly legalise basically every other unpleasant stadium at the same time - I don't see what's so special about this one other than the TT logo on the packaging vs Hasbro - we have always criticised Hasbro stadiums for pretty much the same reasons, so the argument would be to use the phrasing from the Plastics and HMS Rulebook - "Matches may take place in any official stadium" with a list of recommended stadiums as a guide. I would happily play tournaments in the Championship Clash stadium (as long as we set the right launch area rules to prevent Divot Strats). I'd actually be less hyped about DB Stadium than that tbh, not even as a once off.

If you want an actual reason why we have avoided or split these things off in the past like with Zero-G though, it is that these kinds of large differences in gameplay balance run the risk of needing separate ban lists (like F230CF/GCF in Zero-G). This could well be a concern with a stadium as different as DB. Perhaps once the series ends it would be safer. Yes this can be managed, but it does require further structural change (including rulebook formatting etc) and if people are hurting for an alternative stadium right now I don't think that's going to be a fast enough option.

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I like the idea of mode change for starters it gives QD more of a reason to use since the entire point of the drivers is based on mode changes so that be pretty cool. It also gives a good chance for DB stuff with Low and High since I personally feel like it could get to some REAL interesting matchups that would be great to see. Also thinking of standard even if Qt is not crazy (pray for Qt' TT) it also allows that driver to have real use. Of course, I would want to see a trial run of the idea to see if it works out but on paper it sounds really cool. 

You could even switch Nx+S to free spin from fixed if you wanted to for whatever reason, it honestly just spices up the game. I think the more we explore things like that which Crisis did a good job with their proposal the more we can enjoy a meta and have fun.

Exactly. I mean to me it's a matter of 1) TT and Hasbro designed these gimmicks and generally intended for them to be used and 2) The dual spin layers I believe this was done over no longer present the same threat. It may give a buff to dual spin drift but those aren't always super optimal anyway.

I would *love* to see a test tournament with this rule in particular. CrisisCrusher07 suuurely test tournament in MD with this rule? I feel like given how tired people are of Drift there, if anyone is gonna hate it, it'll be you guys right? (I mean this in the nicest possible way, by the way, I don't know if I'd want the rule approved without trying it in MD specifically because you guys are vocally tired of LAD).

Personally, I have so many different types of tournaments I want to test out I just need to figure out a good scheduling for them. I would like to test out mode changing (including rotation changing) in 3v3 just because I feel that match type is the most balanced for testing out this kind of stuff. I want to test out a tournament using WBBA rules along with their 5G format.

As far as my opinion on the Mode Changes, I just think it would promote more Blader skill in knowing when to change a mode based on individual match ups instead of only being able to do it once. Like just because I knew to go into high mode against one combo doesn’t mean I should give myself a disadvantage for the rest of the whole match, and just because I don’t want to disadvantage myself for the whole match doesn’t mean I shouldn’t change a mode against a combo I know it would be beneficial to me. It’s definitely an argument though as to what would require more skill. I can certainly see both sides. I just personally feel that the more skill would come from having to know how the different combos your opponent has one by one instead of the luck factor as to when you see them.

---

So to me this is where we shouldn’t be holding a standard of opinion, but a standard of healthy competitive meta. It doesn’t matter when determining policy if we think it’ll be fun personally, let the tournament organizers and attendee’s determine that locally. If people hate the DB stadium it’ll naturally not get played. But banning it from competitions is only justifiable if the meta is badly unbalanced imho. “We on this forum don’t like it” isn’t a good reason. You know what I hated when I started? Playing in a stadium where all but a small number of hard to control attack drivers threw themselves out of the arena more often than not. I’ve gotten a decent launch now, but I legitimately almost stopped being interested in the hobby when I got my standard stadium, as I didn’t have any rubber drivers and didn’t realize how important they were. And I’m sure I’m not the only person who experienced that. Raising the skill floor for attack types is, imho, a very good for the long term health of the game as attack is obviously the most exciting part of the game, particularly for new players. It’s not like we’re getting rid of the HasPro or B-09 either, this particular kind of attack won’t go away. 

Honestly, my favorite stadium is the giant TT stadium, as I think it’s shape encourages action more than any other stadium, but that’s obviously not more accessible for anyone and I’ve never played in it with someone else so it may just be like that solo 😅

2¢ more from me

My personal opinion just happens to be one which enjoys rubber Attack drivers and I was specifically saying that we could do what you're suggesting, that comment wasn't sarcastic though I can see how the wording may sound that way - sorry for being unclear. I'm just saying that I feel the stadium is boring to play in, and feels like a Hasbro gimmick stadium. I would say that it's fine to legalise it if we broadly legalise basically every other unpleasant stadium at the same time - I don't see what's so special about this one other than the TT logo on the packaging vs Hasbro - we have always criticised Hasbro stadiums for pretty much the same reasons, so the argument would be to use the phrasing from the Plastics and HMS Rulebook - "Matches may take place in any official stadium" with a list of recommended stadiums as a guide. I would happily play tournaments in the Championship Clash stadium (as long as we set the right launch area rules to prevent Divot Strats). I'd actually be less hyped about DB Stadium than that tbh, not even as a once off.  

If you want an actual reason why we have avoided or split these things off in the past like with Zero-G though, it is that these kinds of large differences in gameplay balance run the risk of needing separate ban lists (like F230CF/GCF in Zero-G). This could well be a concern with a stadium as different as DB. Perhaps once the series ends it would be safer. Yes this can be managed, but it does require further structural change (including rulebook formatting etc) and if people are hurting for an alternative stadium right now I don't think that's going to be a fast enough option.

Yes! I agree with everything in this post. And honestly, me too about the DB stadium. I’m using it as an example much more than personal opinion or preference. I have actually said the same things about the DB stadium feeling remarkably like hasbro gimmick stadiums. 

My attitude is mostly “as long as this stadium is balanced to play in, let tournament organizers and attendees vote with their interest”. Otherwise it feels like micromanaging our small communities rather than encouraging the hobby as it naturally evolves. 

If I’m talking personal preferences, I’m much more personally excited for the haspro stadium and I would be super down for the championship  clash stadium. Just to shake it up!