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[Product]  BBG-17 Zero-G Random Booster Vol. 2 Archer Gargole SA165WSF

Jul. 28, 2012  11:11 PM
 
Thank you for the link, BO.
Jul. 29, 2012  12:51 AM
 
Hopefully this can give a visual aid of what slyx is seeing.

The one on the right is in Zero G Attack Mode, while the left one is in Normal Mode. The overhang prevents the Track from being inserted as far into the Wheel as other Tracks (note the gap between the the Track and the center of the Core on the left custom compared to the right one).

This leads to a custom using Normal Mode being slightly taller than the same one using Zero G Attack Mode.



According to my scales, SA165 weighs around 6.18 grams. At least, that's the average of the three that I have.


Here's the SA165 section on the instruction sheet.
Jul. 29, 2012  1:01 AM
 
Hm ... And even though it is taller, would you consider that the Bottom, and all the pieces together, are well and legally attached, Byser ?
Jul. 29, 2012  1:12 AM
 
Personally, I believe it's legal. The Face still screws in just fine, the Bottom attaches and detaches like normal, and the custom didn't fall apart in the few informal tests that I did. It's a minor design flaw, but I don't think it's so large that it should be illegal.
Jul. 29, 2012  1:15 AM
 
(Jul. 29, 2012  12:51 AM)Byser Wrote: Hopefully this can give a visual aid of what slyx is seeing.

The one on the right is in Zero G Attack Mode, while the left one is in Normal Mode. The overhang prevents the Track from being inserted as far into the Wheel as other Tracks (note the gap between the the Track and the center of the Core on the left custom compared to the right one).

This leads to a custom using Normal Mode being slightly taller than the same one using Zero G Attack Mode.



According to my scales, SA165 weighs around 6.18 grams. At least, that's the average of the three that I have.


Here's the SA165 section on the instruction sheet.
Jade Libra,Is that correct?And Scythe Libra?
Jul. 29, 2012  1:30 AM
 
Those are both Duo Libra ... Byser wanted to show how the same combination but using two different modes of SA165 were different.
Jul. 29, 2012  3:54 AM
 
By deeming it legal to utilize SA165 in Normal Mode on Wheels where the two parts can't correctly fit together, then specific combinations of parts that prevent proper configuration (such as Basalt + 85CF/GCF where the Circle portion prevents the Track from going all the way in) should be alright to use as well, then?

When a Track like that can't go all the way into the MW the way it should, the Face's threads can be stressed and bent if tightened to the same degree as normal when the Track fits correctly.
I can post pictures of examples if anyone needs them.
Jul. 29, 2012  4:10 AM
 
i can't see things hosted on imageshack because of internet censorship conditions where i'm at, but i'm sure Byser's images did very well to show what i was referring to! Thank you for helping me out there! =D

comparing 6.2-ish grams with the 8g of BD145 (as listed on beywiki), SA165 loses out in both weight and diameter, as well as being at a more awkward height. However, i still think that its superior LAD and lack of scraping issues can help it stake a place as a top tier stamina/defense/balance part.

regarding the legality issue... i guess the combination holds together well. one just needs to avoid over tightening the facebolt (which is very easily done) which results in warping the screw part of the facebolt and track. i don't have an autofocus camera so i can't show the closeups clearly, but one of my MF cores now has it's screw section not perpendicular to the axis of the facebolt anymore, but bending away from teh face section itself, if that makes sense. also, one of my SA165s has that "excessive-plastic-wear" white residue around the screw area, indicating a high stress tension in the combination when assembled.

how do you know when to stop tightening the facebolt, byser? for me tightening it to the point where it no longer naturally further tightens already constitutes over tightening which resulted in the above consequences.

EDIT: wow that took me a while to phrase that post such that angry got there before me! oops... ><
Jul. 29, 2012  4:18 AM
 
(Jul. 29, 2012  4:10 AM)slyx Wrote: how do you know when to stop tightening the facebolt, byser? for me tightening it to the point where it no longer naturally further tightens already constitutes over tightening which resulted in the above consequences.

There's no way to know. As you've already stated: by the time it's tight, you've already overtightened the bolt and damaged both of the pieces.
Jul. 29, 2012  4:23 AM
 
(Jul. 29, 2012  4:18 AM)ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Wrote:
(Jul. 29, 2012  4:10 AM)slyx Wrote: how do you know when to stop tightening the facebolt, byser? for me tightening it to the point where it no longer naturally further tightens already constitutes over tightening which resulted in the above consequences.

There's no way to know, as you've already stated: by the time it's tight, you've already overtightened the bolt and damaged both of the pieces.

right, that was the answer i was hoping to get, actually =D

damaged is one thing, they're still usable as i can still use demented MF-H and SA165. what i'm concerned about is if repeated tightening and loosening of the combination (to clean, change parts etc) will completely render the parts useless.

i should probably also add that contrary to what byser said, i am not able to remove the bottom from Death ____ SA165 "normal mode" ___ once the custom is fully assembled and the facebolt tightened.

(i should really stop these experiments before i really break my SA165 Confused)
Jul. 29, 2012  5:01 AM
 
(Jul. 29, 2012  4:23 AM)slyx Wrote: damaged is one thing, they're still usable as i can still use demented MF-H and SA165. what i'm concerned about is if repeated tightening and loosening of the combination (to clean, change parts etc) will completely render the parts useless.

As long as you're careful not to over-tighten them again, those parts should still be usable for a while unless you get an unlucky break in battle.

Quote:i should probably also add that contrary to what byser said, i am not able to remove the bottom from Death ____ SA165 "normal mode" ___ once the custom is fully assembled and the facebolt tightened.

So even using a Tool the Bottom just won't come off?

I'm not saying you're being untruthful, but at the same time I don't see how that would work. Assuming you connect the Bottom and the Track before tightening the Face, the Bottom should make it so the bowl piece on SA165 can't move, so you should be able to take if off just like you put it on.

If you tighten the Face before attaching the Bottom and push the Track up so it fills the space below the Wheel fully, you shouldn't even be able to attach the Bottom because with the center part of SA165 pushed in, the bowl gets in the way of the tabs that the Bottom latches on to.

Is it possible for you show a picture of the custom in a state where you can't remove the Bottom?
EDIT: Sorry, I forgot you said your camera can't show close-ups clearly. Don't worry about it Smile

Jul. 29, 2012  5:08 AM
 
(Jul. 29, 2012  5:01 AM)Byser Wrote:
(Jul. 29, 2012  4:23 AM)slyx Wrote: damaged is one thing, they're still usable as i can still use demented MF-H and SA165. what i'm concerned about is if repeated tightening and loosening of the combination (to clean, change parts etc) will completely render the parts useless.

As long as you're careful not to over-tighten them again, those parts should still be usable for a while unless you get an unlucky break in battle.

But the thing about this is that a combo that utilizes SA165 in Normal Mode along with a MW that hangs low is that the Bey cannot be properly assembled. And if a Bey is not properly assembled, wouldn't it be considered illegal?
Jul. 29, 2012  5:53 AM
 
(Jul. 29, 2012  5:01 AM)Byser Wrote:
(Jul. 29, 2012  4:23 AM)slyx Wrote: damaged is one thing, they're still usable as i can still use demented MF-H and SA165. what i'm concerned about is if repeated tightening and loosening of the combination (to clean, change parts etc) will completely render the parts useless.

As long as you're careful not to over-tighten them again, those parts should still be usable for a while unless you get an unlucky break in battle.

Quote:i should probably also add that contrary to what byser said, i am not able to remove the bottom from Death ____ SA165 "normal mode" ___ once the custom is fully assembled and the facebolt tightened.

So even using a Tool the Bottom just won't come off?

I'm not saying you're being untruthful, but at the same time I don't see how that would work. Assuming you connect the Bottom and the Track before tightening the Face, the Bottom should make it so the bowl piece on SA165 can't move, so you should be able to take if off just like you put it on.

If you tighten the Face before attaching the Bottom and push the Track up so it fills the space below the Wheel fully, you shouldn't even be able to attach the Bottom because with the center part of SA165 pushed in, the bowl gets in the way of the tabs that the Bottom latches on to.

Is it possible for you show a picture of the custom in a state where you can't remove the Bottom?

here is a photo of the custom:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/83662942@N0...hotostream

and an attempted closeup of the track/bottom area.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/83662942@N0...hotostream

i'm not sure if it's clear enough, but the tightness pushes the disk against the bottom, making the pressure/friction impossible to remove the bottom. for this BS bottom which fitted very loosely, i was able to wrench it out with considerable force but that made it impossible to reattach the bottom as the disk gets pushed out with the available space. for bottoms that fit more tightly (such as my RDF and CS when i was initially testing the combo), the bottom entirely cannot be removed to begin with

EDIT: @ byser just saw your edit, and yes, can't do closeups but i did try my best! ><
Jul. 29, 2012  10:19 PM
 
Perhaps takara tomy only tested the track with zero-g beyblades, because as some of you may have noticed, on all of the zero-g beyblades the point where the tip connects to the track is not sunken in like for example duo.

So with that being said, there would be enough room to sa165 to fit snugly, but not so much on metal fight beyblades.
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