"smash is good knockback, recoil is bad knockback" is what you're saying, meaning that the only difference between the two is whether or not the effect benefits you.

I'm not blaming you in particular but I know how the WBO defines these words and I thoroughly disagree with it.
Separating "smash" from "recoil" will only lead to people failing to see the link between them, which, incase you couldn't tell, is a bad thing and therefore recoil, not smash.

I also disagree with the current definitions. However, instead of trying to force a change in vocabulary on the rest of the community by using their words in my preferred fashion, I have started speaking in purely physical terms like, "the net momentum vector of each bey before and after the point of collision".

A rapid reversal of your bey's net momentum vector after a collision is bad for you, but you do want your bey to be able to create such a change in your opponent's bey.

A rapid reversal of your bey's net momentum vector after a collision is bad for you, but you do want your bey to be able to create such a change in your opponent's bey.

To be entirely clear:

"Oh, this wheel has huge recoil!" means "Oh, when this wheel gets hit, it flies back really far!"

"Oh, this wheel has great smash!" means "Oh, this wheel's design efficiently transfers large amounts of energy into the opposing wheel, causing the opposing wheel to fly back really far!"

We simply insist that people try their best not to confuse people, which is precisely what over-use of the term "recoil" has been doing. "Smash good, recoil bad" is not difficult to understand, and unless you're going up for a physics degree in children's toys, it's a perfectly fine distinction to make.

Now, everyone should probably get back on topic, because this is not "BB-123 Random Booster Recoil Discussion Vol. 156 'Have you had enough of this nonsense yet?'".

As to the post below mine: No, it isn't, because every time someone says "recoil is great!", you have to stop and make the distinction between good and bad kinds of recoil, whereas when you clearly separate the two types into different terms, there is no need to do that.

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Some manner of Octopus.

I don't speak in an overly complicated manner like that though and frankly, that's liable to be just as awkward for some people to understand as simply using the word in its more general sense.

EDIT: The discussion came up due to Crash so it was atleast relevant to begin with. People kept claiming that Midnight would have terrible recoil regardless of its weight and that had to be corrected since it simply isn't true. Midnight just has a lot more of its momentum reversed than transfered due to it's very low comparative weight. Its recoil, as experienced in a wall rebound, isn't actually all that major.

Crash would deal a good amount of damage if it was 40g, and also it seems similar to beat, vulcan, etc. so if they made it more heavier, it'd probably make it to tier 2. Cloud, on the other hand, nothing good up for cloud.

Off-topic: I really think the discussion for recoil/smash should be ended, as it causes too much confusion. Not trying to force you guys or anything, but probably a sticky on smash/recoil should keep things quiet.

Sure, I've made my complaints, feel free to make a locked sticky of it.

In the case of the Fusion metal wheel , I think his recoil can be converted into smash be adding weight, friction and centrifugal force. But what kind of (attacker) / defender would it be then?

So, the Fusion wheel could (probably) find use in the combo : MF-H Fusion Hades GB145RB ?

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coincidence doesn't exist, we can only try to change our destiny

In the case of the Fusion metal wheel , I think his recoil can be converted into smash be adding weight, friction and centrifugal force. But what kind of (attacker) / defender would it be then?

So, the Fusion wheel could (probably) find use in the combo : MF-H Fusion Hades GB145RB ?

...what? Do you understand any of the terms you just used? Are you aware that we have a testing thread for Fusion?

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Some manner of Octopus.

I am sorry, I didn't know there is already a testing tread for Fusion.

I do really understand the terms I just used. Perhaps I didn't explain it right because my English is poor. Could you say what is wrong with my explanation then so I can edit my post?

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coincidence doesn't exist, we can only try to change our destiny

Recoil is not the same as smash and you can't turn it into smash. RB doesn't work in that way. It won't attack. Also Fusion doesn't seem to have any attack use.

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I am sorry, I didn't know there is already a testing tread for Fusion.

I do really understand the terms I just used. Perhaps I didn't explain it right because my English is poor. Could you say what is wrong with my explanation then so I can edit my post?

A backwards force cannot be turned into a forward motion by anything but a forward force.

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Some manner of Octopus.

You can't turn recoil into smash, but you can take measures to reduce recoil (MF-H, Rubber Tips) to be able to use recoil-y parts without them self-KOing after a hit (from their recoil), so if they have good smash that was previously made useless by the recoil, they become usable. Of course, if the part doesn't have good smash in the first place, or has recoil beyond what any reasonable measure can reduce, then there is nothing you can do.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

And what about the Blitz metal wheel? Without a rubber tip this isn't a good (smash) attackwheel any more since it then gets a huge amount of recoil damage and it then hasn't much smashing attack at all. This is what I mean with "recoil converting into smash attack". Do you understand what I mean?

Also, hasn't recoil to do with being pushed in the opposite spin direction so it will lose lots of spinning speed?

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coincidence doesn't exist, we can only try to change our destiny

Ugh, this is not the place for discussing it, but Blitz has excellent smash. It also has recoil, which must be controlled to make it usable.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I just wanted to say that blitz or an other smash attacker hasn't good smash attack without a rubber bottom/ MF-H .
So I would say that with extra weight and ground friction recoil can be "converted" into smash.

this is just the same for the Fusion wheel. With it's rubber it has lots of recoil itself but also recoil for the other bey which hit it, even a stamina wheel. When hitting each other, the bey with the highest friction and/or weight has the most chances to "win" the clash. I don't think smash for Fusion in the meaning of pushing the other bey back "out of the stadium" but pushing the bey back "in its contra-spinnning direction" (if the other bey is also right spinning). Is that OK?

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coincidence doesn't exist, we can only try to change our destiny

Recoil cannot be turned into Smash ... You can try to lower the recoil so that the Smash gets more influence, but Smash and Recoil are two completely different vectors.


End this discussion on recoil right now. Read the Beywiki article on Recoil, there is nothing else to be said.

my apologies to everyone being off topic with the recoil discussion caused by me. my first post really got out of hand, sorry.

I'll post "my combo" in the right topic to see if my predictions were right.

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coincidence doesn't exist, we can only try to change our destiny