OFF TOPIC: I gotta go with Gianmarco93 here guys it seems that people seem to think that because you are from another country and the majority of people here are from Canada/U.S. that we are in some way superior and that we get 80% of the say and they get 20%, we are all one community and should treat each other with respect and if someone has an idea respect it and if you think it is wrong don't say, no you can't do that. Give them constructive criticism and state facts rather than opinions. Lastly I would like to say when solving an argument think of WHAT is right not WHO is right.

I think the Committee is made of people, wherever they live, who have a thorough knowledge of the Beyblade hobby and wish to procure the best conditions for organized play around the world.

The Libra Wheel could be banned because other defense combinations were also viable. If the Rubber Flat Bottom was banned, then R^2F and probably CS would also have to be removed from play, and no good attack customization would be left, which is why we are against banning Rubber Flat. Also, switching stadiums between rounds will take away a very important factor in Beyblade : this game, you have to admit, is about making the right decisions before the match actually begins, since you cannot change your Beyblade between each round. You can make your choice of customization based on the stadium, and you can make it based on your opponent's choice of Beyblade. If you remove the knowledge of what stadium is used for players, then organized play is not the same at all.

We were unaware of some apparently good customizations, however it would make a lot more sense, even if those words are just "up in the air", to ban those "too good" combinations than the whole part that is Rubber Flat. We did not have problems with the top-tier Attack customizations we knew that used RF.

I do not remember if or when we ever expressed our superiority simply because we were from Canada or Europe, but I think all the Committee speaks as a group who really likes to Beyblade and who wants the game to move forward while being completely fair and competitive as well.

As with the AndPag situation, you could be African, you could be Japanese, you could be American, you could be Canadian, etc., but if you proposed this sort of thing, we would only have the Beyblade hobby in mind, and answer accordingly.



I wish for this to be the last post on the matter of rules in this topic. If you want to keep discussing the issue, then you should post in the Italian thread "Dear Rubber Flat, you really drive me insane" in English, so we know that you want to keep talking with us about it. If this is not satisfactory, then, because the idea of starting a whole new thread about this does not seem too cool in my opinion, we could start discussing it in private messages, or in the Beyblade Random Thoughts topic.

ON TOPIC: I was doing some tests with MF LLDrago H145RF and honestly it looks very promising, I don't see much of the recoil because of RF and MF and LLDrago provides amazing smash attack while H145 provides good upper attack, if you wouldn't mind could you maybe do some tests with H145 replacing CH120, I don't mean to be lazy but I do not have the parts myself atm. Just a suggestion though.

I've just made a thread about this:

http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MF-Light...-curiosity


It's definitely interesting how useful CH120 is to so many different combinations. Personally, I think you should do more testing. Obviously you can extrapolate and guesstimate using these results, but, imo, it'd be better to have more for increased accuracy. I appreciate your effort though (in a non-condescending tone).

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ON TOPIC: I was doing some tests with MF LLDrago H145RF and honestly it looks very promising, I don't see much of the recoil because of RF and MF and LLDrago provides amazing smash attack while H145 provides good upper attack, if you wouldn't mind could you maybe do some tests with H145 replacing CH120, I don't mean to be lazy but I do not have the parts myself atm. Just a suggestion though.

There is something you should consider about the results. When you use MF Lightning L Drago H145RF against top tier Defense and/or Stamina Beys that uses tracks at 145 height (eg. MF Earth Bull GB145WB), H145 only makes very little contact with the opposing Beyblade. Most of the strong hits are actually delivered from Lightning L Drago itself, and has little to do with H145.

H145 is like a more balance type track with attack and defense.

No, definitely not Defense. Beys that use H145 will get destroyed by good low attackers such as Quetzalcoatl 90RF.

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In football players excange the position of the stadium after the half time.

They play at night.
Or in a stadium with equal amounts of light on both sides.
It makes no difference.

SUBSTANCEEDIT:
I always liked how the wheel looked, very happy it's useable.

MOREEDIT:
Someone should retest Sagitarrio.

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H145 for this combo doesn't perform as successfully as CH120 does.

H145 for this combo doesn't perform as successfully as CH120 does.

Um...yes.
You would not really want 2 high recoil parts in a single combo. :\

Also, H145 (second mold) would add more weight to this already heavy combo. A heavy combo that doesn't have most of its weight focused on the outside will move considerably slower, resulting in a less powerful hit.

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Well said,

A little off topic, but the Italians do know how to produce some combos.
Ever since their Top-Tier combos Leone H145RF, and Peg H145RF were discovered, alot of other blades have utilized this smash attack concept.

But I personally perfer CH120 over H145, so much more versatile.
But I definetely am going to test out H145 tommrow

A little off topic, but the Italians do know how to produce some combos.
Ever since their Top-Tier combos Leone H145RF, and Peg H145RF were discovered, alot of other blades have utilized this smash attack concept.

If I'm not terribly mistaken, the combo is MF Pegasis CH120RF (145 Height). Pegasis and H145 just won't really work well together...
Also, it was Jerf and Ozzy who made that combo up (Pegasis 145RF), then DrigerGT modified it (MF Pegasis CH120RF -145 Height).

But I definetely am going to test out H145 tommrow

What I said previously (with a few changes):

There is something you should consider about the results when you do your testing. When you use a combo that uses H145 (eg. MF Lightning L Drago H145RF) against top tier Defense and/or Stamina Beys that uses tracks at 145 height (eg. MF Earth Bull GB145WB), H145 only makes very little contact with the opposing Beyblade. Most of the strong hits are actually delivered from Clear Wheel and/or Metal Wheel (in this case: Lightning L Drago), and has little to do with H145.

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H145 for this combo doesn't perform as successfully as CH120 does.

Um...yes.
You would not really want 2 high recoil parts in a single combo. :\

Also, H145 (second mold) would add more weight to this already heavy combo. A heavy combo that doesn't have most of its weight focused on the outside will move considerably slower, resulting in a less powerful hit.

Actually, regardless of where the weight is distributed, as long as the beyblade weighs the same, as well as all the other conditions remain the same, the amount of power in the hit is exactly the same.

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Actually, regardless of where the weight is distributed, as long as the beyblade weighs the same, as well as all the other conditions remain the same, the amount of power in the hit is exactly the same.

Hm? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the weight is focused more on the outside, it has a higher movement speed right? A higher movement speed means more momentum, which results in a much better hit.

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How can you say h145 is not good for this combo?
Have you seen the video?
Leone H145 RF - Libra GB145 WD 10-3
Do you know what it means?
H145 in this combo is a good part,really before talking you should do tests.
You don t have to trust completally in the beywiki..only because beywiki says leone and H145 Are not good parts and have to much recoil it doesn t mean you can say that they Are bad parts without testing.
People looks beywiki like if it is a bible...

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Actually, regardless of where the weight is distributed, as long as the beyblade weighs the same, as well as all the other conditions remain the same, the amount of power in the hit is exactly the same.

Hmm, if what you said was true, the Beywiki article on Spin Velocity would need some changes. :\

When the weight is focused around the outside, the blade is harder to stop. This means that it is harder to interrupt the spin, increasing defense. It also means that Attack-types with outwardly-focused weight can smash their opponents harder.

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How can you say h145 is not good for this combo?
Have you seen the video?
Leone H145 RF - Libra GB145 WD 10-3
Do you know what it means?
H145 in this combo is a good part,really before talking you should do tests.
You don t have to trust completally in the beywiki..only because beywiki says leone and H145 Are not good parts and have to much recoil it doesn t mean you can say that they Are bad parts without testing.
People looks beywiki like if it is a bible...

I think if it was MF Libra GB145WB, people would quibble less about it. As it stands, I've never really been convinced about the defensive properties of WD.

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How can you say h145 is not good for this combo?
Have you seen the video?
Leone H145 RF - Libra GB145 WD 10-3
Do you know what it means?
H145 in this combo is a good part,really before talking you should do tests.
You don t have to trust completally in the beywiki..only because beywiki says leone and H145 Are not good parts and have to much recoil it doesn t mean you can say that they Are bad parts without testing.
People looks beywiki like if it is a bible...

There is something you should consider about the results. When you use a combo that uses H145 (eg. MF Lightning L Drago H145RF) against top tier Defense and/or Stamina Beys that uses tracks at 145 height (eg. MF Earth Bull GB145WB), H145 only makes very little contact with the opposing Beyblade. Most of the strong hits are actually delivered from Clear Wheel and/or Metal Wheel (in this case: Lightning L Drago), and has little to do with H145.

H145 makes most contact if the opposing Bey is short.
EDIT: Also, as Daegor42 stated, WD does not provide enough friction to effectively grip the Stadium, which makes it less effective for Defensive customizations.

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Yes but WD is figure in the top tier parts for the defense combos..

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Yes but WD is figure in the top tier parts for the defense combos..

Yes, but WB has more friction than WD so WB can grip the stdium floor better, the best option for defense combos

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Today I found out that Dark could be a decent attack wheel....when you wrap a rubber band around it

The first time being beaten!?

What the hell!? Defense types need a low track? Attack types need a high tip?
Do they know what the carp they're talking about!?

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I'm lovin' it.

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I guess it's because we swarm the Facebook chat box with one of the most annoying smilies ever --> ^1^

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Meh, I'll just leave my account on for a month.

Kai-V = God o' Bey?

I think I speak for all of us when I say "Baaaaaaaaaaah". We totally need to get some crab bit beasts up in here. Kanikanikanikanikani.

The Annoying R & K campaign has ended. Really short period, right?

But we're still annoying, haha.

Hong Kong is weird.

it seems like a no-brainer to use it this time.

First: Buy Booster Pegasis 145D
Second: Buy some Metal Faces
Third: Buy Storm Pegasis 100RF

Make MF Pegasis 145RF.
Your very own customized attack type Dark Wolf.

Dark Bull DF145FS, one of the worst combo in the world...

I can make a whole bey out of broken parts.

getting qualifications and preparing yourself for a successful future must suck compared to staying at home and playing video games right

You can grow up to be whatever you want if you try your very bestest.

Blader DJ is 99% Bey Spirit and 1% capital letters.

bassano sannoo

i forgot my older sisters name........but thats ok shes not that importent.

I nicknamed my Hasbro Gasher Energy Ring "Cancer Clear Wheel".

My classmate named his mixture of s pegasis, r leone, and f saggitario=pegaleotario

I call my combo BRUCE LEE. (will post pics later)
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Rationale:
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RS is trash and should hopefully be outclassed soon.

Hm, we can almost do anything.

Hence why Kai-V is God o' Bey hah.

Do you guys know what combination is for the ULTIMATE BEYBLADE for MFB? (:

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You are right wb would be' better.
But i think libra GB145 WD is still a top tier combo for defence
So you can t say that Leone H145 is not a really good combo.

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Yes but WD is figure in the top tier parts for the defense combos..

WD is known to be a lot less effective in Defense combos than WB. WD does not have enough friction to grip on the Stadium effectively since it has a sharp tip.

WD is placed on the Tier list since it is the second best Defense bottom and offers good Stamina. However, WB is far more effective.

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You are right wb would be' better.
But i think libra GB145 WD is still a top tier combo for defence
So you can t say that Leone H145 is not a really good combo.

Argh, H145 does basically nothing in battle since it makes little to no contact with the opposing Beyblade due to its height.
The Libra wheel when placed on a 145 height track (GB145) is taller than the H145 track.
So most, if not all the KOs done in the tests are caused by Leone, not H145.

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Yes I understand this.
Just want to say ispanico86 won a tourney with that combo.
And i think he doesn t make battle only with combos that have a 145 track.
He won the beyday tournament(and then the bey lottery what a luck man)

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Hm? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the weight is focused more on the outside, it has a higher movement speed right? A higher movement speed means more momentum, which results in a much better hit.

Why would weight distributed on the outside result in a higher movement speed? All it does is make it more stable and produces the, albeit debatable, 'flywheel effect'. It wouldn't affect movement speed at all. If anything, with more weight distributed on the outside, it'd have better balance which, coupled with the increased stability, would decrease movement speed.

Hmm, if what you said was true, the Beywiki article on Spin Velocity would need some changes. :\

When the weight is focused around the outside, the blade is harder to stop. This means that it is harder to interrupt the spin, increasing defense. It also means that Attack-types with outwardly-focused weight can smash their opponents harder.

"It also means that Attack-types with outwardly-focused weight can smash their opponents harder" - I seriously don't understand this. Just because it's harder to interrupt its spin, it produces more force? Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but how? Does anyone have any reasoning for this, bar the fact that it's harder to interrupt its spin because that makes no sense.

Force = Mass x Acceleration

This means that, provided the mass is the same and the same bottom is used to produce the 'same' speed (the speed would have to be an average as there'd be too much variation between each launch, regardless of whichever bey you're using), the force would always be the same.

Obviously the shape would have to be the same too so there'd be no stupidly large fluctuations in hit forces and pressure.

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If you hold the handle of a hammer and hit a target, will the amount of force dealt be the same as if you hit the target while holding the hammer head (with the handle attached) instead?

They are the same weight, but the hammer will deal more force when you swing it while holding the handle since the weight is more focused on the outside.

Also, if the spinning top’s weight is more focused at the centre, the spin velocity will be different from one which has its weight focused on the outside. Does this change its acceleration?

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Force = Mass x Acceleration is correct, but you're taking a very simplistic view of a very complex system. You're still thinking in terms of a linear system, but if you have more mass distributed on the outside of a spinning object, you are changing its moment of inertia. This in turn changes the angular velocity, which affects centripetal acceleration.

EDIT: I apologize if I'm not explaining properly, or if I am in fact inaccurate in the specifics. My point is that Cpt. Squirrel is taking an overly simplistic view of the complex collisions that occur between two rotating objects by treating them as "static" (or not rotating, rather).

EDIT 2: In response to the spin velocity subject, an Attack type is more efficient when its spin is harder to disrupt not because it exerts a greater force, but rather because it has more momentum and is more capable of work, or the transfer of energy.

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it is called torque.
=p at least, that's what physics class tells me.

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When a Bey is rotating, the force applied isn't only from how fast it is rushing to its opponent. The force is also from the points of contact when it's spinning. This applies mostly to Beys that don't use the high movement bottoms.
In the case of the Leone Wheel, when it is rotating, the points of contact are usually these parts (at the outer of the wheel):
[Image: dscf6334copy.jpg]
Think of Leone's 'paws' as the hammer heads and the hammer handle as the inner of the wheel.

So now the Force (Smash Attack)= Acceleration (Spin Velocity)x Mass (Outward focused weight).

The spin velocity can be increased by concentrating the weight at the center, but then, there will not be as much Mass focused on the outside, resulting in a less effective Smash attack.

Again, I might be totally incorrect about this.

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If you hold the handle of a hammer and hit a target, will the amount of force dealt be the same as if you hit the target while holding the hammer head (with the handle attached) instead?

They are the same weight, but the hammer will deal more force when you swing it while holding the handle since the weight is more focused on the outside.

Also, if the spinning top’s weight is more focused at the centre, the spin velocity will be different from one which has its weight focused on the outside. Does this change its acceleration?

Actually, the force would be the same. The pressure, however, would not, and that's why I said that it'd have to be provided the shapes are the same.

In response to your last point, it would change its acceleration if the weight is focussed on the inside.

Force = Mass x Acceleration is correct, but you're taking a very simplistic view of a very complex system. You're still thinking in terms of a linear system, but if you have more mass distributed on the outside of a spinning object, you are changing its moment of inertia. This in turn changes the angular velocity, which affects centripetal acceleration.

EDIT: I apologize if I'm not explaining properly, or if I am in fact inaccurate in the specifics. My point is that Cpt. Squirrel is taking an overly simplistic view of the complex collisions that occur between two rotating objects by treating them as "static" (or not rotating, rather).

EDIT 2: In response to the spin velocity subject, an Attack type is more efficient when its spin is harder to disrupt not because it exerts a greater force, but rather because it has more momentum and is more capable of work, or the transfer of energy.

One has to take a simplistic view of this system because, at the specific point of contact, even though it's too fast to see, for lack of better phrasing, they would be static and not rotating.

I see what you mean about the momentum being increased, but I have proven that the flywheel effect is negligible in the Libra re-instatement thread (that statement may not apply here as it was testing Libra). Let's say that the flywheel effect and the momentum produced is significant. The bey will still depend heavily on the bottom for actual movement speed, and so I think, given it's the same weight, a higher spin velocity would actual have a better smash force.

"You're still thinking in terms of a linear system, but if you have more mass distributed on the outside of a spinning object, you are changing its moment of inertia. This in turn changes the angular velocity, which affects centripetal acceleration."

This is all dependent on the flywheel effect of Leone. I doubt none of us will be able to conclusively test it in the way that we can Libra, as Libra is good for stamina, attack and defence purposes. Obviously those measurements will be affected, but, if the flywheel effect is also very insignificant here, those fluctuations in measurements won't have too great an effect. The opposite would obviously be true.



Anyway, this is a bit off topic, I'm too tired even though I've been awake for 2 hours, and I haven't thought about physics in ~3 years.

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When a Bey is rotating, the force applied isn't only from how fast it is rushing to its opponent. The force is also from the points of contact when it's spinning. This applies mostly to Beys that don't use the high movement bottoms.
In the case of the Leone Wheel, when it is rotating, the points of contact are usually these parts (at the outer of the wheel):

[image]

Think of Leone's 'paws' as the hammer heads and the hammer handle as the inner of the wheel.

So now the Force (Smash Attack)= Acceleration (Spin Velocity)x Mass (Outward focused weight).

The spin velocity can be increased by concentrating the weight at the center, but then, there will not be as much Mass focused on the outside, resulting in a less effective Smash attack.

Again, I might be totally incorrect about this.

You can't really do F = m x a (I can't remember the notation and correct capitalisation of letters) because, though the points of contact are separate from each other, they are all part of one thing and so you have to measure the mass of the whole bey.

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