I sometimes use Smash Turtle (Master/Kid Draciel) on stamina types, I figure the externalised weight might help its stamina, and they're already doomed against attack anyway, so the shape isn't a huge deal as long as it doesn't reduce stamina on contact. However, these sorts of non-bearing stamina types are hugely outclassed anyway, and I haven't actually tested whether or not it improves anything at all.

I only really use seriously large AR's on bases where something smaller looks goofy (and of course Whale Crusher for OHKO). Though there is that Dragon Breaker/War Bear thing I mentioned, that's pretty big.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I don't really like wide ARs for much of anything except hilarious OHKO combos, to be entirely honest.

If Rapid/Killer Eagle's AR is considered 'wide'(which according to me is wide), then this thing sometimes Force Smashes things downward.
Not as effective though, but probably a use I discovered, which is more respectable than OHKOs.

@th!nk- Cross Dragon on a BB as big as Wolborg 4's. You'll want to suicide.
It looks SO funny, that you'll find Chuck Norris jokes boring in comparison(not like they were entertaining anyway)...

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Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

Has anyone a couple of War Lion\Monkey S-AR, Wide Survivor\Defense and Gabriel Base (i don't remember its name!)!
Writing the article on Gabriel, Kei said that is possible to remove wings from the base and put the S-AR you prefer.
I'm testing this new (for me,lol) kind of customization,but the S-AR under the Wide Defense\Survivor isn't free spinning because of the Weight Disk..
Can anyone of you confirm me this?
And if anyone of you have the same results i have,can we discuss here or in PM how this customization works against other combos?
Thanks!

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Melseth,il diavolo che si annida nel profondo della mia mente... mi spinge alla distruzione e alla pazzia...

My Plastics/HMSs/MFBs Collection! (updated on 5/28/2012)

Funny thing Galaxy, V force S-ARs ar thinner than S&F series, so that should explain the problem.
I would help, but I have traded mine awayz.

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Official KaizerMFB Youtube Channel!
Collection of 15/01/12

Funny thing Galaxy, V force S-ARs ar thinner than S&F series, so that should explain the problem.
I would help, but I have traded mine awayz.

Nooooooooooo!!!! xD
I don't own VF S-AR

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Melseth,il diavolo che si annida nel profondo della mia mente... mi spinge alla distruzione e alla pazzia...

My Plastics/HMSs/MFBs Collection! (updated on 5/28/2012)

Has anyone a couple of War Lion\Monkey S-AR, Wide Survivor\Defense and Gabriel Base (i don't remember its name!)!
Writing the article on Gabriel, Kei said that is possible to remove wings from the base and put the S-AR you prefer.
I'm testing this new (for me,lol) kind of customization,but the S-AR under the Wide Defense\Survivor isn't free spinning because of the Weight Disk..
Can anyone of you confirm me this?
And if anyone of you have the same results i have,can we discuss here or in PM how this customization works against other combos?
Thanks!

This actually happens on SAR-enabled AR's as well, put the Weight Disk up the other way and see if that changes it.

My TT Gabriel isn't here yet, but when it is I have almost every SAR-enabled AR and SAR so I should be able to check it all out for you.

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Got one bey for Christmas, Flame Pegasus. It did make me realise something. It would be possible to use First Gen AR's in left spin using it's gimmick, so you could use Bump King's AR in left spin so it would be slightly less abysmal. Maybe.

On the downside, the part where the CEW attaches on mine has cracked, its useable but I won't be able to rely on it.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Figured this was vaguely interesting enough to warrant a new post, considering how I've written off Zeus's EG as not having enough LAD in any setup it's compatible with. I found a setup that does okay.

If you use Flame Pegasus' Metal Sharp CEW, the CEW provides LAD. The tip is like a wide flat section with a ball the size of FS's S part in the middle, all made of metal. It's not the most stable, but that's not a huge issue for it. The flat section has sloped edges, which provide LAD as the bey slowly topples, first with the tip and the edge touching the ground, and then with the edge and part of the blade base touching the ground. This means it can get in a couple extra rotations at the end of a battle, as the rotation of the CEW keeps the bey rotating slightly longer. It's also a pain to judge because even the lightest contact will make it spin again, so when the beys are right against each other at the end of a battle, it's hard to tell when it has stopped.

It's enough to do okay against this: (by okay, 50% or so, maybe more)

AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Left SG (Double Bearing Core)
SP: Defense Ring
BB: Customise Bearing Base (Burning Kerberous)

I used this setup:

AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Right Customize Gear (Free Shaft Version)
BB: (Undecided, See Below)
CEW: Metal Sharp


I'm currently working out which bases work best, I've tried Zeus, Wolborg 4 (basically the same as Rock Bison), Metal Driger, Driger G and Draciel G. I've only got Dragoon G/GT's and Gaia Dragoon G's Bases that I haven't tried, as the spikes make them impractical for zombies, I have both Dranzer bases coming in the mail still, and don't have a Gigars or Deser Sphynxer.
Draciel G, Driger G, and Zeus seem to be the best so far. The first two seem to have better LAD than the other options (well, they interrupt the movement less when they "anchor" the bey as they scrape the ground), Zeus's isn't bad either.
Draciel G's reduces chance KO's against opposing zombies, and seems to be stable, but is KO bait for things like 10bBistool, Driger G's has good LAD and is harder to KO, still gets OS'd by 10bBistool, and Zeus's has slightly less LAD as far as I can tell, but provides much better defense against 10bBistool. All of them get OS'd by 10bBistool, Zeus seems to do better though. That said, most zombies don't do too well in the same spin direction as their opponents.

I'd avoid using Wolborg 4/Rock Bison's base as sit higher than other bases so the angles with the ground don't work well.

Of course, this isn't quite a top tier combo, methinks. For starters, it's locked in right spin, so it's only useful as a zombie against left spin opponents, which is primarily Defensive Zombies (which could KO it, but struggle to OS it), Other Stamina Zombies (50/50 so far) and Left Spin Attackers, which will KO it with ease. In right spin, 10bBistool OS's it quite reliably, so it's not so great, but yeah, most zombies rely on opposite spin anyway.

It also acts aggressively at the start of battles (due to the flat section of the tip), though steadier shooting would help a bit. It's not good for it to do that due to the low grip and weight of it.

Still, it's the best zombie I've come across for Zeus's SG, so yeah.



It could make it, of course, seeing as we listed Wing Cross, which is right-spin only, but it's a bit unconventional, and fitting the proper Shielded Ball bearings into Zeus's EG, at least for the top slot, can be a bit difficult, plus the parts aren't exactly common.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I'm not sure if I've ever contributed this combo (maybe I have), but I remember my testing in the past having VERY positive results:

AR: Mountain Hammer
WD: Wide Defense
SG: neo right/left (Heavy Metal Core)
SP: Mountain Ring
BB: SG Grip Change Base

Tested in the attack stadium.

So I had a fascination with Uriel 2 because of it's ridiculous rarity and the fact it was rumored to have the strongest attack power among plastics (it likely does). In fact, the base was also known to break if used with some SP's because of it's speed, so I was initially afraid to test it because of this. Brad was the one that told me it'd probably be fine if I was careful about which SP's I used, so I went for something safe.

I dabbled around with a few different AR's including Cybernetic Dragon due to it looking like it'd be amazing with the amount of speed SG Grip Change Base could generate.. Recoil turned out to be the BB's biggest flaw because of it's speed, so I fixed that.

Basically, Mountain Ring, Mountain Hammer, and Wide Defense reduced the recoil of the bey while Heavy Metal Core tamed the speed somewhat.. What I remember is getting an attack type that could easily KO all but the most obscure of combos.. I actually tested it against WBMS and found that it was able to KO it consistently.

I think there's probably only a couple reliable counters I can think of for it, and I believe it's effectiveness was based on spin direction.

Reminders:

I don't play anymore and this information is entirely based on memory which isn't always reliable.. I'd actually like to see it tested by others who have the parts. I only tested it in the attack stadium because it was the only one I had at the time that I liked.. Tornado Attack is probably still relevant, so I'd definitely recommend people to test it in there or anywhere else attack types are applicable.

---------

zombies were pretty annoying.. They needed to be tested extensively against each other and different combos.. I used WBMS as a control.. I assumed if it could beat WBMS with any remote consistency, then it was probably amazing.

The combos I currently still have assembled are:

AR: Twin Horn (Gabriel [Takara Version])
WD: Spark Disk
SG: Left SG (Bearing Version) (Wolborg)
Shaft: Bearing Base (Metal Dragoon Bearing Stinger)
BB: Customize Grip Base (Dragoon V2)

AR: Gyro AR
WD: Spark Disk
SG: right SG (Bearing Version) (Wolborg)
Shaft: Bearing Base (Metal Dragoon Bearing Stinger)
BB: Customize Grip Base (Dragoon V2)

I think left spin twin horn may actually be better than gyro ar, but don't quote me on that.

Breakage is less of a problem considering Th!nk's Grip Chance Base modification, (Using Wolborg 2's shaft and Burning Kerberous' base or something like that.. It would be best he explain it in great depth rather than my shoddy half explanation) so I am certain we can add a bit of extra 'spice' to that combination and try and make it even more potent!
Sounds solid, and I'd love to test it when my parts come in! I think we all appreciate when an old member takes the time to explain and reveal things (though they've lost interest over the years) to us newborns, so thank you!

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

Yeah, the SP use doesn't always save you now. Gold plastic syndrome gets worse with age.
It *might* be okay if you use Defense Ring and other non-aggressive SP's, but I'd just not be willing to risk it, I was lucky to bag a second after my first exploded violently in my face, and I don't really plan to use it.

However, the big weakness of my setup is the inability to use an HMC with it. Also, it hasn't been given the okay from the committee yet, I really hope they do, I must remember to nag Kei again.

But yeah, basically, put the tip into a Wolborg 2 Casings, put the result into Burning Kerberous's base, and voila, all the speed, slightly lower, no breakage. Yays. It fits the wolborg 2 SG as if it were designed to. There are some pictures earlier in the thread, if you need more convincing.

Also, those rumours were correct, it's faster than Grip Base, slightly, albeit taller (I use Survivor Ring, Wide Survivor/Defense, and Triple Tiger, for smash and reach, and upper where appropriate).

I want a spark disk WD, but it's so hard to find now.

Both those zombies are excellent by what we know, so seems good to me, though right spin zombies seem a little deprecated at the moment, given part limitations.

The attack combo is interesting, I can't play around with it for the reasons I stated, however I will try it on my own setup, which sadly is incompatible with an HMC.

Tornado Attack is still the preferred stadium, however, BB-10 is more common, which is a shame, it creates a great many more chance KO's and other issues. Still, Tornado Attack is becoming more popular, as Sonokong have them in a couple of sets that are available on eBay.

A lot of tourneys rely on those with larger collections lending out combo's to newbies to get them into things. It's a nice way to share the fantastic game of plastics, though a significant collection is needed to keep things competitive.

It's really fantastic to see you in this thread, by the way, as Dan said, we really appreciate it.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

What SP'S were you using when it broke? I felt pretty confident about the sturdiness of this particular combo, but I also have two back ups laying around incase something went wrong.

I'll check out the pictures if I can find them.. I don't need convincing though: if it works then it's probably the best attacker anyone can currently use. It's may even be better than the combo I listed if it withstands the recoil without any trouble

Are there any other zombies considered on par with the ones I listed (or better) as far as zombie vs. zombie goes.

let me know how the mountain hammer/defense ring combo works out for you.

Admittedly I was using Upper Attack SP (someone said it would be fine!). However, the damage I have seen done to other parts of Uriel 2 is the main cause of my concern, anything with a slight amount of force on it seems to crumble.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Gold_Plastic_Syndrome might explain it better. For example, though, both my base clips shattered when I tried to remove them from the base.

As for those zombies, they are about as good in terms of pure stamina as anyone is aware of, you have the two best AR's, the best tip stamina wise, the best weight disk. Not much you can do better in terms of stamina. I quite like Burning Kerberous's SG, just because it is less susceptible to KO's from random opponents, but as far as pure stamina goes, that is probably the best setup you could have.

I have no recoil issues with it, and it blows basically everything out of the stadium with a good launch, so it's pretty fantastic.

I will give your combo a shot, especially if I work up the courage to try it with uriel 2's base.

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Okay, tried it (as per your original specs), and it is a fantastic combo. Honestly, the smash is amazing, it threw

AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Right HMC
BB: SG Metal Ball (2 Sets)

all over the place and out the arena.

However, you were right about a spin-direction limitation, I tried it against my grip-based defender

AR: Twin Horn (Hasbro) *(it's actually pretty good, still waiting on my Takara one to compare).
SAR: War Lion
WD: Wide Defense
BB: Left SG Bearing Ver 2 (Wolborg 2 Shaft)
SP: Defense Ring
BB: Customise Grip Base

And it didn't do so well, it lacked the ability to push it off its grip, (the main reason I use Triple Tiger).

Compared to the combo I was using, it did a bit better against weight but not so well against grip, and it definitely needed the HMC.

It is an extremely good combo though, and infinitely less part-intensive than mine, which is somewhat of a virtue now.

Couple other newer finds: Griffolyon's Cross Griffon has Smash on par with Triple Wing, more recoil, but also slightly more "stopping power" to it, did slightly better in tests with 10 Wide, HMC, SG Metal Flat 2. Mc Frown also shared a combo, which shows upper attack even if it isn't in the same direction as the opponent. He posted a video of it in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilrfsjLj688 there's a parts list in the description.

I prefer Triangle Wing (Dranzer GT) on it, but yeah, it actually works better when the opponent is in right spin. I've had failings with other right spin upper combo's against left spin defense, but that one does it amazingly well. It also OS's loads of stuff. It's pretty impressive.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I'm not actually using the Uriel 2 base clips and I don't remember what happened to them.. One of they might have broke otherwise I don't see why I wouldn't be using them. Upper Attack SP was definitely the culprit behind every break I heard of.. It looks like it'd be amazing and probably would be if the base was far sturdier than it is.

Yeah, the main problem with the zombies I listed is that they are KO'd so easily. I don't remember much about Burning Kerberous' SG aside from that it was widely available and amazing in zombies.. Bearing Stingers were very uncommon.

The tip not having any sort of locking mechanism is the primary concern I'd have with your combo, but aside from that it sounds like another godlike attacker.

Yep! I do remember my combo having that quirk.. Not sure if it's detrimental to it's use, but it'd definitely be a concern when using it. The smash attack just throws things around so seamlessly. It sounds like your combo would be much better if it handles both grip and weight combos reliably.

Glad some one found a use for the hasbro Twin Horn! It was definitely worse than than the Takara Twin Horn for zombies, and I never thought to try it with defense. That upper combo in the video seemed really top notch. I imagine because there are so many good attackers in plastics that defense is essential.

I had this combo still assembled so I assume I liked it:

AR: Whale Attacker (edited)
WD: Wide Defense
SG: neo right (Heavy Metal Core)
BB: BB: SG Metal Flat 2

Don't have any confidence in this combo, but it's definitely meant for smash attack. I think Whale Attacker had a ridiculous recoil problem and was largely wrote off because of it.. Think the idea here was to weigh it down with HMC and give it a moderately speedy base and let it hit things hard.

I doubt it's better than anything else you guys use, but it's worth a try if I'm right about the recoil and managing to control it.

Yeah, the locking mechanism lack is a shame, but it is about as sturdy as anything without one can be.

BK's SG had two bearings, and a tip that was similar in behaviour to metal change.

I'm not sure yet how it compares to Takara's in defense, it's stamina isn't actually that bad, though obviously, the only AR's I have to compare it to are Tiger Defenser, War Lion, and Bistool's AR which I've suddenly drawn a blank on. I've got both Twin Horn and Gyro AR coming so I will try to look into it properly. Definitely would steer clear of hasbro (at least) twin horn in right spin, way too aggressive/recoily.

The thing is though, that attackers are pretty overpowering, so right now I'm looking for defense beys to stand up to them. Wolborg 4's base does a surprisingly good job against some, actually.

Mmm, that combo looks like a OHKO setup, though normally 6/10 Heavy and a Left SG would be used. It does a fairly good job (it still has a bit much recoil), but I greatly prefer Cross Griffon.

Oh, yeah, Hidden Spirit beys, or at least the AR's and all of Salamalyon (I'd ask about griffolyon's base but it is one of the worst parts in the entirety of plastics so I haven't bothered) are legal now.

Oh, I also got great performance out of G Upper, Dragoon GT's AR, for smash attack. Few people are crazy enough to use it now, but I do. I still prefer my triple tiger/uriel 2 combo, but it's a great AR, very similar to cross griffon.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I updated my post.. I meant Whale Attacker (not crusher) lol

Ahh, explains a lot, definitely a OHKO style setup, then. I would try it, but my whale attacker split in half. Recoil issues. :\

Basically anything that has too much recoil for practical use in attack gets lumped into OHKO. Cybernetic Dragon, Whale Attacker/Crusher, Spike Dragon, and so on. A lot of fun, though.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I'll probably try it at some point if I'm ever in the mood.. What are your suggestions on defense combos if I ever do decide to test some attack types?

If Anubis/Guardian Pinion (or whatever it is now) still posted he'd be able to give you guys some amazing ideas on defense.. Don't really wanna share his stuff without permission, but you're definitely right about Wolborg 4's base being great for defense.

I used a combo build with it to consistently beat the smash one I posted earlier.. It's heavily spin direction orientated as usual though.

Weight Based Defense:
AR: Tiger Defenser (Most low recoil AR's that don't protrude past Wide Defense work)
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Right+HMC
BB: SG Metal Ball (2 Sets)

Grip Based Defense/Defense Zombie
AR: Standard for zombies, whichever you feel works best defensively.
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Left SG Bearing Ver 2 (wolborg 2)
SP: Defense Ring
BB: Customise Grip Base

Those are the standards, but similar AR/WD setups on Wolborg 4's base are always good to try, too, though currently it's not a well known part (which should change, LeeDraciel won the recent UK tournament with it).

I'll go speak to Guardian Odin about Defense, I should be able to get in touch with him.


Oh, and I do prefer Cross Griffon to G Upper, for what it's worth. The extra stopping power gives it an edge, even if it lacks the slight upper of G Upper.

EDIT: While those are the standards, Tiger Defenser/Wide Defense/Right EG Circle Survive/No Clutch Wolborg IV Ver is the only thing I've found that can stand up to my attack combo. It takes a very good launch to get it out of the stadium with anything, ahah.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Ok, so just to reaffirm the concerns of th!nk, a part of my uriel 2 base chipped off while removing one of the clips.. It was an unpleasant surprise, but 100% confirms that this base just can't seriously be relied upon. It's a real shame, but them's the breaks.

I have two more of these things I'll never use, so I'm only mildly annoyed.

Synesthesia, we've explained the breakage issues of Uriel 2 very in-depth. It didn't really need extra confirmation. Gold plastic breaks, it's an absolute truth of the universe.

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Some manner of Octopus.

It's basically all new to me haha

Synesthesia, we've explained the breakage issues of Uriel 2 very in-depth. It didn't really need extra confirmation. Gold plastic breaks, it's an absolute truth of the universe.

Talk about a warm welcome for an old friend, eh Octopi?

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

Octopi is plural.

I am not a plural entity.

Anyway, just encouraging him to scour the thread.

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Some manner of Octopus.

You aren't? Omni-potent Hazel is everyone and everything!!


therefore octopi. :V

"we don't need you to agree with us, we already know" doesn't sound like "look around, learn something new!" to me.

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

th!nks combo is amazing and I hope it gets approved.. While I still the don't like the fact that there is nothing but friction keeping the tip in, it is not likely to come out for any reason other than you pulling it out.