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[Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread

Jun. 12, 2013  11:53 PM
 
Th!nk I believe I heard you applauding Gaia Dragoon G's sub AR for defensive combos. Combined with a suitable main AR, how would you say it fares against popular choices such as Tiger Defenser or War Lion?
Obviously, answers from others are also appreciated.

In fact, while I'm on the subject, what characteristics define a good defense AR? It's clear that Upper Dragoon etc are ideal for weight based defense, but what are the general features that are ideal?
Jun. 13, 2013  12:11 AM
 
Uh, better against some things/on some things and worse against others/on some others, but honestly defense already has a massive advantage over attack so for defense I go with things that help in other ways - I usually use it to add defense to stamina combinations or seeing as I use it with a hasbro twin horn, to improve stamina on combinations overall. If you do need more straight defense though, it's a solid choice, and also helps a little in spin stealing if you're not using wide defense (/survivor but you don't use that on defense lol).

For an AR to have good defense it needs to have low recoil on whatever weight disk it's being used with. That's about it, weight based defense AR's are ideally heavy but because heavy AR's inevitably have higher recoil than tiger defenser, that's a tradeoff. But as I said, defense is already very strong so most of the time, AR's are chosen to improve stamina or other attributes. Defensive Zombie AR's are generally chosen to improve stamina without sacrificing defense, Circle Survivor combo AR's are chosen to keep the hell away from getting hit and being well balanced, and weight based defense AR's are chosen either to maximise defense (because they're weaker defensively than the other two for the most part) or, given the fact they are often more useful as balance combos, add attack, range (for KO launches) or provide ways to beat additional things via OS (Smash Turtle - though it also adds range and a little attack compared to tiger defenser/war lion).
Jun. 21, 2013  12:21 PM
 
Izkhoort asked for this yesterday in Q&A, and as I needed to write it out anyway here it is.

Here's the list as it stands, from memory. No particular order, you can't really put most of these in order as a lot of it is personal preference, most people are best off sticking to the ones that aren't [H] or [?].Went through the parts list a couple times to make sure I hadn't missed anything so it *should* be complete in that sense. Use the parts list to check what beys they come from.

Smash and SSUA only as pure Upper Attack isn't really competitive, but all of the AR's for it are either tagged as [+U] in smash or in SSUA already or are an honourable mention. Driger V2 combos are also upper attack but they usually incorporate some smash as well and/or are balance, and there's no point making a separate category that just lists Upper Claw LOL.


Quote:
Competitive Plastics Attack AR's

Smash Attack

Key: (Click to View)
Right:

Triple Wing
Cross Griffon (Takara)
Delta Wave [?]
Triple Tiger [+U]
Upper Claw [+U]
Double Attacker [H]
Mirage Goddess [H]
Corona Saber [H +U]
Dark Wing + Dark Wing SAR [H]
Twin Horn (Hasbro) + Screw Zeus [H] (Personally I worry about breakage with this)
Dragon Breaker + Screw Zeus [H]


Left:

Eight Spiker
G Upper
Panther Head
Great Dragon + Screw Zeus [H] (major breakage in right, can still be a little fragile in left apparently, and it bends Great Dragon a bit when set up optimally so I would suggest taking it apart if you're not going to use it for a while.)
Dragon Breaker + Screw Zeus [H]
Dragon Breaker + War Bear SAR (Fixed in place) [H]
Dragon Saucer + Screw Zeus [H]
Hayate Attack Ring (Takara > Hasbro) [H]

Notes: Those that attack with SAR's need to be oriented correctly for maximum effectiveness. I'll take pics whenever I have time.Generally aim to expose contact points and focus weight on the major ones (generally you want an oval weight distro).


Honorable Mentions:
Whale Attacker (Right): Very powerful but way too much recoil to be safe as well as suffering breakage issues. Double Attacker produces the same or perhaps more power but doesn't suffer quite as much recoil.
Whale Crusher [+U] (Right): One of the better upper AR's but not enough smash to be competitive on smash setups.
Turtle Survivor [?] (Right): Effective but extremely prone to breakage
Other Screw Zeus setups: Anything that fixes it in place may be competitive in either spin direction, but those listed (particularly for left spin) are those add something to its natural abilities.
Double Wing (Left): Not enough range.

Possibly competitive, but need testing:
Trident Vector [H ?]: Definitely suffers from heavy recoil but whether or not this can be compensated for


Spin Stealing Upper Attack:
Note: Always use opposite spin to opponent for full effectiveness.

Right:
Upper Dragoon
Upper Claw
Triangle Wing

Left:
Upper Dragoon
Triangle Wing

Honorable Mentions:
Triple Tiger (Right): Too much recoil to not be outclassed, the extra smash is nice at times but usually pointless.
Jun. 24, 2013  7:24 PM
 
Cool! Top tier attack ARs!

Didn't you test Corona Saber in right, on Grip Base?
Jun. 25, 2013  8:16 AM
 
Good spot, haha, I've fixed that now. Thanks!
Jun. 25, 2013  9:02 PM
 
Thanks for posting this Th!nk!

Every day it seems harder to do a plastic combo than a MFB combo, or is my idea?
Jun. 25, 2013  9:19 PM
 
Plastics can have more parts and more complex assembly methods than the other generations, but this means you can have more control over the custom's attributes and can generally do more things. So yes, they are generally more complex and harder to build.
At the same time, plastics can have as few as three parts (AR/WD/4 Layer system BB) which is tied with Variares with a 4D Bottom (plus a face) for the fewest parts used in a tournament legal beyblade, of course, with the blade base assembly it's more complex but only because they didn't bother to pre-assemble them.

In addition to this, MFB has power creep (i.e. new beys - Metal Wheels in particular, tend to outclass old parts completely) which plastics didn't really suffer from, so there are generally more parts you can use for a competitive combo in plastics than in MFB.
Jun. 25, 2013  9:32 PM
 
That's why I thought of it, also you don't have only 4 or 5 kind of parts, you could have from 3 to nearly 7, 8 parts from differents beyblade (when using bearings and that)

The good side, like you said, is that you can use ALL beyblades of that generation, if some parts are outclassed is because they are useless parts not "old" parts, and that is great when you like to play with different kind of things!
Jun. 29, 2013  9:39 AM
 
Finally got around to getting out a Uriel 2 tip setup to test the candidates for competitive attack AR's (i.e. testing under conditions where their recoil would be adequately controlled), which is basically the last thing I needed to check for the plastics cc list. Here are my notes. I used Triple Wing as a benchmark of sorts (though I also have some notes on that). I was just using them against Tiger Defenser/10 heavy/Metal Ball Base as it's not too hard to KO and behaves pretty consistently in general.

Combo:
AR: Independent Variable
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Right SG (Bearing Version 2) - Everything here was done in Right Spin.
SG Tip: SG Grip Change Base Tip (heavily worn, but I can still get it moving more than fast enough for this)
SP: Defense Ring (to minimise effect of matching/mismatched weight distros while still controlling recoil)
BB: Customize Bearing Base


Triple Wing: Generally considered the Benchmark Smash Attack AR, Triple Wing has somewhat less powerful smash attack compared to many of its compatriots (most notably Cross Griffon, which is perhaps its direct competitor for use in combinations), however the small slopes of its attack ring have a significant destabilization effect which then makes opponents more vulnerable to smash attack. This seems to be its primary method of KOing opponents, which means it has a fair bit in common with many left spin attack AR's (they destabilise by moving fast in opposite spin to their opponents to similar effect).

Now onto the rest:

Mirage Goddess: Disappointingly, it falls short of the amount of smash attack it would need to be considered competitive. This is due to the contact points facing a little too inward (visible because the outside of the tips of each "wing" have a lot of scrapes while the tips themselves aren't nearly as blunted as would occur if they were the prmary contact points). So yeah I was wrong about it - it didn't increase in power significantly when recoil was controlled.

Corona Saber: Just powerful enough to earn a spot, in large thanks to its ability to destabilize opponents. Very noticeable dependence on a good launch (launch well it'll wreak havoc, launch bad and you'll lose, much moreso than normal anyways) - probably because it's horrendous aerodynamics mean if you're not attacking from the start you waste a huge amount of energy due to air resistance - still, if you launch well then that is pretty negligible.

Delta Wave: A little too much recoil (rotational in particular) to deserve a spot with the power it produces. A shame.

Twin Horn (Hasbro) + Screw Zeus: This is what Deikailo recommended to me for right spin, but it doesn't stay in place that well or work that well when it does. Both parts can be used better.

War Lion + Screw Zeus: War lion holds the SAR in place well, however it's just not quite powerful enough to warrant a spot - Screw Zeus really needs an AR that contributes to its smash attack.

Dragon Breaker + Screw Zeus (Right Spin): A struggle to get it to go together with good alignment, but once you do, it works well in this direction too, I guess even facing the wrong way Dragon Breaker adds a fair bit to Screw Zeus). I'm sure that it'll show similar improvement on less worn SG Grip Change Base tips as it does in left spin as that's mostly a matter of its weight needing a bit more grip to get it up to a better speed for KO's. Still, this is a deadly setup.

Dark Wing (own SAR): Dark Wing exemplifies Hyper Aggressive Smash AR's - on grip base, it won't do anything. Put it on a setup that controls its recoil (particularly rotational recoil), and it transforms into some kind of violent, angry monster intent on sending things flying.


Also I mentioned some of this on my blog in comments on the most recent post but from previous days experimentation:

Bound Defense Ring works for compacts, it's kinda recoily but the flexibility of the SAR piece helps absorb a lot of it, so it works.

Roller Defense Ring is a great choice for anything where you want a small, low recoil AR, even though its weight distribution doesn't grant it the best stamina. It's an extremely defensive choice on pretty much anything it is used on, seeing as its main contact points are the rollers, which help disperse a reasonable amount of force from hits, and the rest is basically round plastic walls.

Fixed Wolborg 2 Shaft setups just aren't reliable or controllable enough to be considered competitive, even if you get them moving reliably the movement pattern you get is just too chaotic to be reliable given the short window of aggression it has.

Holy Dispell is too recoily to really be considered as meeting the standard set by war lion, tiger defenser, etc for anything it would be used for - probably tier two or thereabouts.

Hasbro Twin Horn doesn't work for compacts, the taller height of the AR combined with it's large size compared to War Lion means it provides more leverage to opponents and thus is less stable than other options (including Takara's Twin Horn, which is viable though personally I kinda worry about breakage a little as I've heard of it happening).

Gaia Dragoon G's SAR doesn't work on compacts, it just results in them losing stamina very quickly, it combines with the opposing beyblade to wear the compact it is used on down, so don't bother with it for compacts.

Fixing wolborg 4's CWD part in place using Zeus's base with Rock Bison's EG (one of the heaviest SG+BB section setups possible) produces a combo with a mix of the attributes (both good and bad) of weight based defense and circle survivor defense, though not really better or worse overall than either. Basically a hybrid of the two types. It's too tall to benefit from the effects of wide AR's (including smash turtle), too, but it's still good enough to be competitive IMO.

Lastly, the one Heavy Attack WD I have weighs around 16.09g, which is the same as most of my 10 Heavies - though I do have 10 Heavies up to 16.42g, that's only a few of the many I have. This means heavy attack is likely viable where weight is needed on combinations that keep it out of the way enough (because it is very recoily). This means the competitive uses are likely limited to certain weight based defense combinations (those with large/overhanging ARs), though really, Ten Heavy should have slightly better stamina and the same overall weight so Heavy Attack would probably be a secondary choice in that case (though it would align a little better with 3-sided ARs). I haven't done enough testing to say whether or not it is competitive and as I only have the one, it's entirely possible mine might be an outlier weight-wise (and the site we used for a lot of part weights is pretty unreliable on weight disk weights, so that doesn't really help). As such I'm going to leave it off the CC list for now.


Hope some of that is of interest to people, anyway. I'm off to get this CC list done.


EDIT: Oh, right, I forgot to include my notes on FACB with Spin Stealing Upper Attack. tl;dr I don't think it works as well as a fully free-spinning setup.

Using FACB results in less upper attack at start of match, though there is still a fair amount of destabilisation as a result of the fast-moving opposite spin destabilisation thing, and there is still some smash attack/upward smash too. However, generally a fully free spinning setup is more effective, as well as being easier to control. While FACB does seem to offer very slightly more LAD, the recoil of the AR and the fact it scrapes the ground means this often doesn't matter, so overall it's is a fairly negligible improvement vs the increased upper attack at the start of the match and better recoil control of the normal setup. Your mileage may vary, of course, but I saw no improvement in reliability and a significant reduction in controllability, so I don't think it deserves a spot on the cc list.

EDIT 2: Wing Cross Mold One does perform noticeably better than Mold Two. This becomes quite obvious with Wing Cross/Ten Balance/Semi Flat Base vs a 10H+HMC Driger S compact, where Mold Two suffers a lot of destabilization (I suspect this is because the rotational recoil means it is at a lower RPM than mold one, but either way it's quite obvious) which causes it to scrape to its death quite often (as long as Metal Change Base is launched correctly), whereas Mold One suffers nowhere near the same amount and thus wins by OS quite reliably.

EDIT 3: One other thing I forgot to mention, I tried SG Bolt Base (Orthrus) for compacts seeing as I got decent performance out of it when I tried it quickly a while back. Sadly it didn't work anywhere near as well as I remembered, doesn't have enough stamina to take on the other compact BB's successfully (which was more in line with what I actually expected of it), particularly due to poor LAD. Oh well.
Jul. 02, 2013  12:10 PM
 
Note: Links go to photos I took to help explain this stuff.

So I was messing around with some illegal base mods and noticed something – the flat part of seaborg's tip bears a striking resemblance to Uriel 2's flat tip – both have two circular sections, both of which are of roughly identical size to each other – odd considering there seems to be no reason for this particular size, at least looking at the bottom of Spin Gears etc, and a hole in the middle. In addition to this, with its tip inserted from beneath, Defense Grip Base is pretty much exactly the same height as SG Grip Change Base.
Seaborg's inner circle section is obviously much shorter, but nonetheless given the fact that these are the two rubber sharp tips, it seems to me that Takara intentionally modelled Uriel 2's tip after the popular Tip Inversion with seaborg's base. Probably because they thought it was neat and released it, but perhaps they were cool with it and wanted to give the rather tall setup support parts or something along those lines?

Okay, that probably sounds crazy, but you know, the more I think about it the more possible it seems they actually intended it or at least were okay with it:

First off, their rules don't prohibit the Defense Grip Base "Mod" at all – there are no foreign parts or substances, parts are not filed down or otherwise physically altered, and no metal balls are added (yes that is in their rules – but I'd like to stay on topic here, there are valid reasons at least Draciel S's base is used with four balls). In fact, our rules don't cover it either – the tip is being used in its own base, and again no foreign substances are added and nothing is physically altered.

Next off, I *think*, based on the spin up guide books, that permanent part modification was banned between the release of Dragoon S and the release of Seaborg. Yet, they made seaborg's tip fit tightly in its base when inverted – of the four bases with tips that are inserted from the inside of the base (Storm Grip Base, Defense Grip Base, G Special Base and SG Wing Base), Seaborg's is the narrowest.

Furthermore, I own two defense grip bases, two G Special Bases, and one SG Wing Base, and of these, only Defense Grip Base and SG Wing Base are able to hold their tips in when they are inverted, and my SG Wing Base could well be an anomaly, as it should be identical to G Special Base's tip (the two share an SAR and Tip which come on the same separate runner frame), but its tip is slightly thicker for some reason, and doesn't fit into the G Special Bases at all, whereas their tips fall out when placed in upside down in SG Wing Base.

It seems odd that they didn't make the tip slightly thinner to prevent this, seeing as judging by Vol 1 including a Storm Grip with an inverted tip, they were aware that people would invert tips, and as above, their rules didn't prohibit it. Looking at the design of the tip, it looks like they could have easily done this without altering the sharp part of the tip at all – the base of the actual tip section is slightly smaller than the cylindrical section that sits inside the base, at least on the two I own.

Lastly, why that pattern on the base of the tip – something usually reserved for things that will be seen, not hidden inside a base. Storm Grip Base's tip is completely flat, SG Wing Base/G Special Base's tips are completely flat with a small hole in the centre (they are hollow). Strikes me as odd.

I believe Hasbro altered the tip so the wider section is completely flat and missing about an eigth or so of its circular shape, at least I have one like this and my Hasbro Dragoon S tip is the same. Not sure why they did this, but it results in the tip skipping like a less extreme Quake Tip from MFB. If this is to be legalised, what to do about that presents a minor issue, though I guess the fact it doesn't work well means making it illegal isn't really worth bothering with.

Performance Wise: It's slightly less grippy rubber doesn't have the same recoil control (both regular and rotational) as Uriel 2's tip, but many of the Hyper Aggro AR's still work on it. It can be used with a Heavy Metal Core, though this slows it down noticeably, to the point the hyper aggro AR's I tried lacked the speed to be fully effective, and even then the rotational recoil control didn't seem quite as good as Uriel 2's. It's also a tall base, significantly taller than Grip Base, but at least it can be used in both directions, it's a little taller than Uriel 2's tip in Wolborg 2's casings. It's not as insanely fast as Storm Grip Base with an inverted tip, about the same as a mint Uriel 2 tip, but slightly harder to control (though an HMC and a decent launch pretty much means you won't self KO). Its LAD is probably pretty poor, though the height mean the WD/AR make a lot of contact with the ground, but at least unlike Customize Grip Base (the best rubber tip available to most people – and even then Dragoon V2 currently sells at stupidly inflated prices thanks to Y!JA) it can handle recoil.
Basically, it's no better than Grip Base or SG Grip Change Base's tip, but is around that level.

I'm aware I may just be talking myself into believing Takara actually intended this or at least were okay with it. It's not any secret that I strongly feel plastics needs an affordable, highly competitive attack base given that even with the best attackers counted, the metagame still leans in favour of the already versatile and easy to use defense type combinations. This doesn't change that, but it would mean more bladers could use attack – and given seaborg is one of the more common blades, having multiple recolors, a full rerelease as BBA Defenser and a Hong Kong release (H-12) and is thus a relatively cheap Beyblade, and the fact Ten Wide and Triple Tiger are easily available, Attack would become one of the easiest and cheapest types to assemble a competitive combination from – and in a generation with relatively poor part availability, this would be a pretty excellent thing.

Of course, that doesn't mean squat if it's unreasonable, however, this is a very conservative "modification", so conservative that our current ruleset doesn't actually cover it as an illegal modification, even though it is generally considered such, and I think there is some evidence it was intentional, and we do know that Takara had a propensity for giving parts hidden functions without mentioning it – just look at customize grip base.

So yeah, I'd like to see the insertion of Seaborg's tip upside down (from below) legalised, if it is [to continue being, I guess] illegal then the rulebook needs to be altered to cover it, as it doesn't in its current state. It wouldn't affect other tips unless my SG Wing Base is an anomaly (and this would be the only tip where it is actually useful anyway). I'm happy to write up a specific statement that this is legal for the rulebook if that is needed. Would be pretty neat to have it legal in time for remembrance IMO, would make things a little more competitive haha.
Jul. 02, 2013  3:00 PM
 
oh my you want it legalized

Yes!!!!! I really, really hope it becomes legalized, Seaborg base mod is so fun, cheap, and wild.

I'm just so excited right now.
Jul. 02, 2013  3:07 PM
 
Don't get your hopes up too high, I've always been on the very, uh, liberal end of the spectrum when it comes to legality questions unless something seems outright dumb - I wanted storm grip base mod legalised, after all (though I did realise it wasn't going to happen), and if I had it my way swapping tips between different bases would be legal haha (you don't know driger v2 if you haven't tried it with both driger v and gaia dragoon v tips), but this isn't anything that crazy.

You're not the only person hoping this happens - a couple of others already have said they'd love to see it happen. As I said, it would do a whole lot of good for the game, and its players, and it's such a simple little thing, no permanent modification, nothing extra needed, just putting a part in upside down (because it happens to be the only one that actually stays in place like that). Might even bring Uriel 2's price down a little seeing as there would be a decent substitute finally, so everyone who wanted to use attack wouldn't be competing with everyone else who wants to use attack as well as collectors and so on, and people wouldn't have to pay so much to get a strong attack combo.

And as I said, there's nothing in the current rulebook that actually makes it illegal, though of course it is generally considered to be.

But yeah I only noticed the shape of the other side today, seeing as before that the only one I'd messed around with was a damaged hasbro tip (the tip had been cut or something, so it was useless used properly), so I wasn't aware of the design and that Uriel 2's tip was based so heavily on it.
Jul. 02, 2013  6:40 PM
 
IMO, there really is no reason for it not to be legal, it can only help the game. Are you PMing Kai-V about it or something?

If it is legalized, what Hyper Aggressive left spin AR setup should I use with it? I'd like to have it be left spin, since a) I prefer to be opposite spin to most defenders with an attacker and b) Having a cheap, good left spin base is what I'm most excited about
Jul. 03, 2013  10:03 AM
 
I pm'd the entire committee when I made the post (with an additional explanation of why it should be legalised) because I'm a self important jerk like that haha (also I wanted to make sure they all saw it with remembrance and all that coming up haha).

Haven't done much left spin testing with it, only noticed the tip thing yesterday evening and was out all day today and am pretty tired, so haven't had time. The height is kinda annoying, but dragon breaker+war bear should work okay, as should the various screw zeus setups, for both you may want to try banking deep given their width. Hayate's AR probably would not do so well. Given it works okay on sg metal flat base (gdv ver), Dragon Breaker+War Bear should do well.

The height means that Triple Tiger and Upper Claw may well be better choices than HA stuff, but Screw Zeus has an overhang in right spin too, and Dragon Breaker+Screw Zeus in right spin doesn't seem to have particularly terrible recoil problems with an MG Core.

Personally I kinda prefer right spin attack based on spin direction matchups with most defense types, but I end up using left because the increased recoil is annoying, and I don't think Screw Zeus is quite as good in right spin (especially given the fact it can't use Great Dragon in that direction due to breakage). Double Attacker hits about as hard in right as the best left spin setups do in left, perhaps harder, but it has a lot more recoil and I'm already saddened by the dents and chips mine has gained from the few times I've used it.... If Mountain Hammer was just a touch more powerful I'd probably use it as my main attack AR and use right spin, but it falls just short of what it would take for me to switch. Still, might be a decent choice on Seaborg's base if this ends up legal seeing as it doesn't have as much rotational recoil as other HA options (seaborg's bb with the tip inverted still doesn't handle it as well as Uriel 2's tip, even with an HMC (though that could be due to the slowdown)).
Jul. 03, 2013  2:21 PM
 
Hey th!nk, I had a question regarding plastics. Which AR in either spin direction has the most brutal/powerful smash attack?
Jul. 03, 2013  2:38 PM
 
In future, questions belong in Plastics Q&A, but seeing as you're new, I'll answer this one here. It's hard to say because of the spin direction difference, but Double Attacker (Orthrus/Othros G) in Right Spin is probably the most violent, but whether or not it has more power than Great Dragon + Screw Zeus (Gaia Dragoon, Zeus respectively) does in left is hard to say. Dragon Breaker + Screw Zeus (Gaia Dragoon V, Zeus) in Left is also very powerful but only on mint Uriel 2 tips thanks to its weight - if the tip isn't mint, it won't get the speed it requires to be equal to the other two, and there isn't another tip that can substitute there.
Jul. 07, 2013  1:13 PM
 
Gyro Defense/Triple Wing Comparative Testing

So for those that don't read my blog, I've been trying almost every AR with any kind of contact points that might be worth using once the recoil is controlled. In the process, I noticed that the attack ring of the Bearing Gyros beyblades is able to hit pretty hard, and doesn't suffer from a tonne of recoil. Further testing showed that it worked effectively on regular attack setups. I know it seems odd but those two protrusions it has apparently work well. Wasn't sure whether it would be competitive, so I finally got around to doing some comparatives.

Do note, however, that Gyro Defense's contact points are thin and high-impact, which means they wear away quite fast, so actually using it is probably not advisable. Then again, I don't know why you would use it anyway given the rarity. Still, finding stuff like this is what I do!

So, here's the testing:

Combos:

Attacker:
AR: Gyro Defense OR Triple Wing
WD: Wide Defense
BB: Grip Base

Wide defense is oriented with notch under a contact point for each AR, so indented side up for Triple Wing, flat side up for Gyro Defense.

Defender:
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: Ten Heavy
BB: Metal Ball Base (4 Balls)

Defender launched first, straight shot, Attacker launched second, sliding shot.

Triple Wing
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results
Triple Wing: 9/20 (all KO) = 45%
Compact: 11/20 (9OS 2KO) = 55%

Yeah, my launch could be a lot better haha.

Gyro Defense
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results
Gyro Defense: 10/20 (All KO) = 50%
Compact: 10/20 (7OS, 3KO) = 50%

So yeah, Gyro Defense is competitive for attack for sure, though my launch needs some work.
The centre-to-edge slopes of the AR mean it gets stopped at the end of the match despite having some destabilization ability, just like on stamina combos (which it's still tier 2 at best for, I tried it again the other day to confirm).
Jul. 16, 2013  2:20 PM
 
So I got around to trying Cross Spiker (Metal Driger's AR) in Left - because I noticed that the contact points aren't actually obstructed and are rather well angled and shaped, and uh, it actually worked. It performed as well as G Upper, Eight Spiker and Panther Head, which are the other standard Left Spin smash AR's. It's not really any more recoily than they are and has pretty much the same power, as well as really good ability to OS stuff on SG Metal Flat Base (Gaia Dragoon V Version), which is the main base I used (it's the lowest competitive left-spin base, I also tried CGB Tip/Dranzer V MG Core/Dragoon V's base, but that didn't work that well for any of them for some reason, really bad recoil control).

Anyway, the only real downside is that it doesn't work that well on Wide Defense - Ten Wide exposes its contact points really well, whereas Wide Defense kinda gets in the way (it's the same for panther head and even eight spiker to an extent, G Upper is large enough not to worry). No real performance detriment from using it with Ten Wide vs say G Upper with Wide Defense, however.

I'd do full tests but SGMF2 isn't the most consistent base and I'm busy with plasticsdb at the moment, and it is very clear to me that it works. If someone else could try it out and tell me how it does compared to one of the other three normal left spin smash ARs, I'd really appreciate it.

Here's the combo I was using:

AR: Cross Spiker (Metal Driger)
WD: Ten Wide
SG: Neo Left SG (South Magnecore Version)
BB: SG Metal Flat Base (Gaia Dragoon V Version)

Tried it against:

AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: Ten Heavy
BB: Metal Ball Base (4 Balls)

and

AR: Roller Defense Ring
WD: Ten Balance
BB: Semi Flat Base (Mold 1 - has a thinner tip, though it doesn't really perform differently)

Mostly because it's easy to see how AR's do against them. I used Eight Spiker, Panther Head and G Upper against all of them on the same attack combo as well, and also with Wide Defense on the attack combo.
Jul. 16, 2013  3:08 PM
 
I can try, but it won't be soon because of these reasons-
1. I don't have Roller Defenser or MBB.
2. I don't have Eight Spiker/Panther Claw/G Upper although I can try to go off how my Eight Spiker did before I traded it.
3. My only left spin launcher skips.

Basically, don't count on it being soon. I'll work on it, though.
Jul. 16, 2013  3:09 PM
 
Use it against whatever, that's not a major concern to me, if you could just try it out and let me know how it does I'd really appreciate it. No rush, though.
Jul. 16, 2013  8:31 PM
 
I was always curious about Cross Spiker, but never actually did anything with it.
I am sure that the tests wont be needed by the time I am able to test, but I will definitely give it a shot when I am able too.
Jul. 18, 2013  10:41 PM
 
Ok, I was able to do it.

Cross Spiker Combo
AR: Cross Spiker
WD: 10 Wide
SG: Neo Left MG Core
BB: SG Metal Flat Base(GDV Ver.)


What I tested against(I'll just call it Tiger Defenser combo in the tests)
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Right SG(MG Core)
BB: SG Metal Ball(2 Metal Balls)

Yes, it's quite outclassed, but I can't use something that will go 20/0 on it.

Equipment

Left shooter with LL1 Ripcord, attached to a Custom Grip with rubber on it
Beylauncher with a broken handle with plastic prongs on it, attached to a 3-Segmented Grip(it only gets about 75%, power, but it's the best I can do, sorry)
Tornado Attack with some cracks on it
The combos

Cross Spiker Combo vs Tiger Defenser Combo
Cross Spiker: 16 Wins(7 KO, 9 OS)
Tiger Defenser: 4 Wins(All OS)
4 Ties
Cross Spiker Combo Win Rate:80%

Some of the OS by the attacker were due to hard hits destabilizing it and making it lose balance, others were just more LAD.
Aug. 08, 2013  2:19 PM
 
Here's something I overlooked somehow when originally doing the parts compatibility list, and stumbled on again while working on plasticsDB and giving Kai Hiwatari some pointers for the relevant BeyWiki article, that is kinda neat.

Basically, there is one vaguely useful part in Wyborg - its SG Core part. Like Dranzer V's it is shorter than a regular one, the main use of which is with Customize Grip Bases tip. It's a little taller than Dranzer V's, which is significant because as long as the CGB tip isn't too worn, it doesn't result in the Base's tip surrounds scraping the floor, so it can be used with CGB itself. The biggest benefit of this is that the plastic surrounds actually catch the tornado ridge – which is a big improvement over the tip's rounded rubber sides which skip right over it – which is one of CGB's biggest issues. It also improves late game survival a bit, as the base's lowest part results in kinda RDF-like behaviour, or at least the Beyblade doesn't topple as fast.

Of course this precludes the use of other cores, your SG options are Regular Left/Right Shells+"Metal Weight Gear" (the metal ring) + SG (Auto Clutch Version) core part or Neo Left/Neo Right Shells + SG (Auto Clutch Version) core part – the lightest SG of the generation (very slightly lighter than neo shells+regular sg core part). While this isn't an issue for Attack types, this means it can't be used for force smash, which is a big shame as despite the advancements for attack types recently, they still haven't got a better base than CGB that isn't also super fragile.

Nowhere near as significant as the whole Seaborg thing, and Defense Grip Base is still a better Attack Base, though it does offer stamina that is almost certainly better than regular CGB (I can't actually test this as my two CGB tips are in very different states of wear, but it's a safe assumption), which is already better than Defense Grip Base, so that's something. Better to buy seaborg though, lol.

ShinobuXD: Thanks for trying it out. How did it compare to what you remember of Eight Spiker?
Aug. 16, 2013  9:36 AM
 
So I manned up and tried out Flame Wing (Dranzer F) as an upper attack AR today (largely because I was curious after Penta Wing did passably-but-not-great in left) and it's actually really good. It does more "extremely heavy destabilization" than actual upper attack and the lack of overhang is a limitation so I don't know if it's a top tier choice for Traditional Upper Attack yet.

However, for Spin Stealing Upper Attack, well the fact it only has slopes in right spin is a big limitation but it actually works really well (against left spin compacts/left spin weight defense), while it doesn't upper attack as much as upper dragoon it destabilizes a lot more and tends to win by OS a lot faster than Upper Dragoon does as a result of this and probably also its better spin steal/anti-spin steal from the lower recoil it has with Wide Defense (being high T2 for Spin Stealing). While the additional smash it offers isn't enough to allow reliability vs Zombies (for the record, Right Spin SSUA with Upper Dragoon also isn't that reliable there so it's not a huge thing, but I'd not be surprised if there were some middle ground where Upper Dragoon could KO something that would otherwise outspin it that flame wing can't). But, as I said, it definitely works really well so I'll add it to the CC list later, with the requisite "FRAGILE" notice. (Also worth mentioning that I've updated said list a few times since it went up so if you haven't checked it recently, wouldn't be a bad idea to do so. I generally edit the most recent post with update explanations or whatever when I update it).

I really wish it weren't so fragile because it is such a great compact AR. Gah.
Dec. 25, 2013  1:07 PM
 
(I hope Random Thoughts is okay for that, even if it is not really a custom):

I'm sure somebody thought about that before, but what do you think about it:
I guess someone posted that idea before.
It's basically Customize Grip Base with Wolborg's Bearing Shaft and Seaborg's tip. The tip is extended with some tape to hold it in place. I know it's not legal this way, but I think it's still better than ruining some Grip Change Bases...
In addition it's not that expensive to get these parts.

Best regards Wink
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