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[Plastics] :: Q&A Thread

Jul. 31, 2016  7:07 PM
 
You would use War Bear because Hasbro Twin Horn is very rare and expensive. It is simply not an option for some people. War Bear seems to be the next best thing for a defensive zombie, even in left spin, because you can still use Saucer and it's still pinched well, even though it points in the wrong direction. Takara Twin Horn would be better for stamina, but also expensive and also pretty easy to KO.
I, and like everyone else I know of, use(s) Customize Grip Base for defensive zombies and Defense Grip Base 2 or Customize Bearing Base for stamina zombies
Jul. 31, 2016  7:29 PM
 
(Jul. 31, 2016  7:07 PM)Zoroaste Wrote: You would use War Bear because Hasbro Twin Horn is very rare and expensive. It is simply not an option for some people. War Bear seems to be the next best thing for a defensive zombie, even in left spin, because you can still use Saucer and it's still pinched well, even though it points in the wrong direction. Takara Twin Horn would be better for stamina, but also expensive and also pretty easy to KO.

I realized this too, but tbh Hasbro Twin Horn has been the Defensive Zombie AR of choice for years.

And I'm afraid that the problem with War Bear isn't that it's facing the wrong direction, but the shape itself- those spikes and large gaps create recoil which is never a plus for a Defensive Zombie. You would want something like Scissor Attacker (Metal Dranzer's AR) or even Tiger Defenser for left spin zombies (if you want to focus on normal stamina-focused zombies), though tbh the choices of ARs for Defensive Zombies aren't very many, and they're very expensive.

Here:
https://thinkblargh.wordpress.com/2012/04/11/20/

I sound like a fanboy now LOL, but he is hardly ever wrong with plastics and so I recommend you take a look at his blog.
Jul. 31, 2016  7:38 PM
 
I have looked at his blog many times, we all have. While he may have contributed more to the plastics metagame than any other person, I would not take his findings as the word of god. The ability to use Saucer covers up the imperfections of War Bear for the most part IMO and makes it better than the other choices for defense. Without it, you are much more easily KOed
Right, for stamina you would want those other choices, or ideally the more expensive Takara Twin Horn, but for defense, which also has pretty darn good stamina, which makes it a better overall choice becasue of it's versatility, you want Saucer
Jul. 31, 2016  7:50 PM
 
(Jul. 31, 2016  7:38 PM)Zoroaste Wrote: I have looked at his blog many times, we all have. While he may have contributed more to the plastics metagame than any other person, I would not take his findings as the word of god. The ability to use Saucer covers up the imperfections of War Bear for the most part IMO and makes it better than the other choices for defense. Without it, you are much more easily KOed
Right, for stamina you would want those other choices, or ideally the more expensive Takara Twin Horn, but for defense, which also has pretty darn good stamina, which makes it a better overall choice becasue of it's versatility, you want Saucer
I wouldn't either tbh, so I can tone it down now. The problem is that I'm limited to theory since I don't own plastics (carp, I still can't access paypal)
And yes, it might be so but I prefer to play safe and rather not risk it, so i guess to each their own uses. Kinda torn here cause I never heard of War Bear being anything but "nah it sucks don't bother" except from you, but I guess we could ask some of the older-vintage players about War Bear, and maybe ask them to test it.

The concern I have isn't that War Bear + Dragon Saucer sucks, it's just that if you're hit right on War Bear, you could get pulverized- it's not terribly good at taking hits from it's shape.
Jul. 31, 2016  8:02 PM
 
(Jul. 31, 2016  7:38 PM)Zoroaste Wrote: I have looked at his blog many times, we all have. While he may have contributed more to the plastics metagame than any other person, I would not take his findings as the word of god. The ability to use Saucer covers up the imperfections of War Bear for the most part IMO and makes it better than the other choices for defense. Without it, you are much more easily KOed
Right, for stamina you would want those other choices, or ideally the more expensive Takara Twin Horn, but for defense, which also has pretty darn good stamina, which makes it a better overall choice becasue of it's versatility, you want Saucer

Have you got any idea how Metal Dranzer's AR compares to Twin Horn (and Tiger Defencer too I guess since this is probably what you'd use if you didn't have Twin Horn) since th!nk said this was top tier for zombie combos?
Jul. 31, 2016  8:41 PM
 
Which Twin Horn? For defense or stamina?
Jul. 31, 2016  8:44 PM
 
Stamina.
Jul. 31, 2016  8:46 PM
 
(Jul. 31, 2016  6:42 PM)RDF3 Wrote: Why the heck would you use Galzzly's main AR though? Those spikes do nothing but add recoil IMO. If you can, get Hasbro's Twin Horn (the one with the S-AR support) and use that and Dragon Saucer SAR. If you don't want to spend money though, Tiger Defenser works well in left.

DrigerGatling is correct though- Wide Defense and Survivor are vital and cannot be subsituted. Get those.

You then need to replace the Neo Right SG Casings on Double Bearing Core with left, put your two NSK shield bearings in it, add Wolborg 2's shaft, and you get this combination:

AR: Twin Horn
S-AR: Dragon Saucer SAR
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Left SG (Double Bearing Core)
SG Shaft: SG Bearing Version 2 (Wolborg 2 Shaft)
BB: Defense Grip Base 2

Which is a defensive zombie: it can handle Driger V2 handily but cannot, unfortunately, handle Circle Survivor defense well.

@DrigerGatling: Defense Grip Base 2 does have better LAD but Customize Grip Base provides better defense with it's Support Parts. DGB2 is better for zombies, while CGB is better for Defensive Zombies IIRC.

On a related note, has anyone tested Dragon Breaker with it's own SAR yet? I'm curious as to how it performs.

First of all thanks everyone for such a detailed answers!

well from everyone discussion i assume War Lion < War Bear < Twin Horn. Umm i'm getting both [not Gabriel lol but will try] so will try both. Main thing i was looking for was something that can OS Circle Survivor [as it seem to be main problem in india]. But I was also looking for it to take atleast 1-2 first hits [or uppercuts] from Drigers so i can atleast break there attack pattern or dodge somehow [which RDF's combo seem to do]

RDF3. you sure that DGB2 can able to handle driger v2? because at last event i used that base just with wolborg 1 shaft and DV2 had no prob leffing and KOing it. i heard defence ring sp can protect from upper attack but not sure how good it works so should i use Customize Grip Base or stick with DGB2

Updated List of Plastic Beys I have (Click to View)
Jul. 31, 2016  8:50 PM
 
Twin Horn is better. It has better weight distribution, covers the bey more completely and has fewer potential contact points than Tiger Defenser and Metal Dranzer AR. Th!nk even says it pretty much, although it's kind of confusing to read, because I don't think he comes right out and says the best stamina AR, but kinda says it in so many words
That said, I don't think it's a gigantic difference. If you are on a budget, Tiger Defenser is fine
Aug. 01, 2016  7:55 PM
 
I missed the response or someone could answer this?

(Jul. 18, 2016  2:35 PM)Izhkoort Wrote: How much could cost an used blue Master Dragoon and an used Ice Blue Wolborg 4?

Would be better to buy a NIP Wolborg 4 even if an used one works well?
Aug. 01, 2016  8:03 PM
 
(Jul. 31, 2016  8:50 PM)Zoroaste Wrote: Twin Horn is better. It has better weight distribution, covers the bey more completely and has fewer potential contact points than Tiger Defenser and Metal Dranzer AR. Th!nk even says it pretty much, although it's kind of confusing to read, because I don't think he comes right out and says the best stamina AR, but kinda says it in so many words
That said, I don't think it's a gigantic difference. If you are on a budget, Tiger Defenser is fine

Twin Horn has been one of the best choices for Zombie ARs for years XD. Metal Dranzer's AR (Scissor Attacker) and Tiger Defenser are cheaper options though.

And as for FIREFIRE, Driger V2 uncustomized is very strong, so be careful. I'd go with Customize Grip Base and Cross Survivor (Dranzer V2) or Defense Ring (Voltaic Ape), since IIRC it's better against upper. And don't bother with War Bear's core-AR, it's pretty much outclassed.

You can then try testing that combo against your Driger V2 (uncustomized or with 10 Heavy and HMC)
Aug. 01, 2016  9:30 PM
 
(Aug. 01, 2016  8:03 PM)RDF3 Wrote:
(Jul. 31, 2016  8:50 PM)Zoroaste Wrote: Twin Horn is better. It has better weight distribution, covers the bey more completely and has fewer potential contact points than Tiger Defenser and Metal Dranzer AR. Th!nk even says it pretty much, although it's kind of confusing to read, because I don't think he comes right out and says the best stamina AR, but kinda says it in so many words
That said, I don't think it's a gigantic difference. If you are on a budget, Tiger Defenser is fine

Twin Horn has been one of the best choices for Zombie ARs for years XD. Metal Dranzer's AR (Scissor Attacker) and Tiger Defenser are cheaper options though.

Not necessarily. It had a resurgence very very recently. Dragon Saucer based combinations weren't really explored until someone in India used it in tournament play and swept with it. Also, theoretically, you wouldn't want to use Tiger Defenser or well, any smoother AR over Dragon Saucer for a Zombie anyways, based on how Zombies work. If you were to use Tiger Defenser, the Opposing Bey would have nothing to latch on to, basically defeating the purpose of "spin stealing." You want an AR that doesn't cause a lot of recoil but at the same time has notches to latch on to.

Quote:And as for FIREFIRE, Driger V2 uncustomized is very strong, so be careful. I'd go with Customize Grip Base and Cross Survivor (Dranzer V2) or Defense Ring (Voltaic Ape), since IIRC it's better against upper. And don't bother with War Bear's core-AR, it's pretty much outclassed.

Uh, what? War Bear has been proven to be the cheaper alternative to Hasbro Twin Horn. You can see that in Driger GT's testing thread, so I don't know where you got that from. For Customize Grip you more or less want to use survivor ring for it's LAD. Driger V2 isn't really a threat IMO if you're going opposite spin anyways. Cross Survivor isn't as great as it could be compared to Survivor Ring.
Aug. 01, 2016  10:50 PM
 
Me and Zoroaste (and probably RDF3) were talking the Takara one so RDF3 was correct. Also as for the how zombies work in the physics of it and latching and all, considering the fact that Tiger Defencer and other round ARs work great I don't know how much I buy it really (not a lot).
Aug. 01, 2016  11:33 PM
 
(Aug. 01, 2016  10:50 PM)Ultra Wrote: Me and Zoroaste (and probably RDF3) were talking the Takara one so RDF3 was correct. Also as for the how zombies work in the physics of it and latching and all, considering the fact that Tiger Defencer and other round ARs work great I don't know how much I buy it really (not a lot).
Zoroaste and RDF3 were definitely talking about Hasbro Twin Horn. You never specified which one you were referring to in your initial reply to Zoroaste.

I still, however, am not convinced that rounder ARs work better than Saucer Combos. Twin Horn + Dragon Saucer seems a lot more consistent versus a lot of things compared to Takara Twin Horn and Tiger Defenser.
Aug. 01, 2016  11:47 PM
 
You haven't got any real proof of that though. You could just as easily say since they didn't add the word hasbro in they weren't talking about the hasbro one.

@[Zoroaste]
Aug. 03, 2016  9:02 AM
 
War Bear is actually decent, so I was wrong. It's on page 4 of the Plastics random thoughs thread. I'm still convinced that for Defensive Zombies, War Bear</=War Lion<Hasbro Twin Horn (with Dragon Saucer SAR btw) though.

And as for Cross Survivor, it provides better Defense against Upper Attack while Survivor Ring is better for LAD in opposite spin.

Be careful with Driger V2 though- even opposite spin isn't a guaranter that you will beat it. It has serious upper attack and a bit of smash attack too iirc, is decently heavy (good defense) and it doesn't do bad with survival too with it's metal tip. Defensive Zombies (left spin, WB2 shaft+Cross Survivor/Defense Ring/Survivor Ring+ CGB)will be able to smack it no problem, but most stamina-focused zombies (Wolborg 1 shaft/BK Shaft) will bite the dust.
Aug. 03, 2016  9:40 AM
 
Safest option against Driger v2 would be a rubber base Attacker as metal tip provides little grip with the stadium
Aug. 03, 2016  10:44 PM
 
Sorry for the confusion
I meant that Takara Twin Horn is better for stamina than Tiger Defenser or Metal Dranzer's AR.
I have not actually tested Hasbro Twin Horn Saucer vs Takara Twin Horn for opposite spin stamina (spin stealing). I assume that Takara is better, because it still has a little bit to push off of and is way more aerodynamic. Would be worth testing though.
For defense, Hasbro Twin Horn Saucer is better imo, and War Bear Saucer being right behind it.
And overall, in a tournament, I would most likely choose Hasbro Twin Horn Saucer, because Takara Twin Horn is way easier to KO, because it doesn't have Saucer to protect it and glance blows off
Aug. 04, 2016  1:56 AM
 
(Aug. 03, 2016  9:02 AM)RDF3 Wrote: War Bear is actually decent, so I was wrong. It's on page 4 of the Plastics random thoughs thread. I'm still convinced that for Defensive Zombies, War Bear</=War Lion<Hasbro Twin Horn (with Dragon Saucer SAR btw) though.

And as for Cross Survivor, it provides better Defense against Upper Attack while Survivor Ring is better for LAD in opposite spin.

Be careful with Driger V2 though- even opposite spin isn't a guaranter that you will beat it. It has serious upper attack and a bit of smash attack too iirc, is decently heavy (good defense) and it doesn't do bad with survival too with it's metal tip. Defensive Zombies (left spin, WB2 shaft+Cross Survivor/Defense Ring/Survivor Ring+ CGB)will be able to smack it no problem, but most stamina-focused zombies (Wolborg 1 shaft/BK Shaft) will bite the dust.

Didn't you say that you own no Plastics in my thread?
Aug. 04, 2016  3:06 AM
 
Quote:Didn't you say that you own no Plastics in my thread?

I've asked myself this question for a couple of times now tbh.
Aug. 04, 2016  6:34 AM
 
I didn't but I have some knowledge from asking questions and browsing threads. But I understand if you guys don't really like it; I'll stand down now.

My bad Unhappy
Aug. 04, 2016  9:16 AM
 
It's great that you want to help out with quick replies to some questions if the answer can be learned by heart. And it is helpful that you collect and share some information for general questions.
But for some topics actual experience is necessary to contribute to an argumentation. If we rely solely on given aspects, we could just upload a text file including the current status quo and all discussion thread would be irrelevant. But even though Plastics are pretty damn old, we're still an active community with members sharing first-hand experiences. And I'm nowhere near saying that everything I say is correct and everything you find out is false, but I hope you see the point.
Aug. 11, 2016  1:49 PM
 
Is that is true that Plastic had Metal Bit-Chips? Idk where i heard but I'm sure i heard about it somewhere and seen it on YJA too

also is Cyber Dragoon's AR is any good
Aug. 11, 2016  2:39 PM
 
There IS a metal bitchip, but they're basically impossible to find, and command a ridiculous price According to th!nk there were a grand total of two in the history of this website the last he checked. If that is still relevant today, that means 2 out of nearly 100000 people in this website today owned one. Told you- impossible to find.

Cybernetic Dragon (Cyber Dragoon AR) is for Hyper Aggresive Smash Attack in right but there is a better option: Corona Saber (Apollon's AR). Besides, Cybernetic Dragon isn't very good at it- not enough power for it's recoil level and I believe both th!nk and Neo broke theirs so I'd personally go somewhere else.
Aug. 11, 2016  3:32 PM
 
cool thanks for answer! btw which is best Hyper Aggresive Smash Attack AR? it's probably my fav type in plastic.
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