Uh the point of Beywiki is to understand all of a bey's uses so that's a pretty silly question. If we didn't test out things that don't seem to have any use then we'd never have known about that Galzzly and Gaia Dragoon V's parts go together to create a very good attack AR.
Manta Diver Draft - Done\Need the approval -
(Jun. 29, 2012 6:13 PM)Ultra Wrote: Uh the point of Beywiki is to understand all of a bey's uses so that's a pretty silly question. If we didn't test out things that don't seem to have any use then we'd never have known about that Galzzly and Gaia Dragoon V's parts go together to create a very good attack AR.
Yeah, but there should be a common sense that all of us should use to understand the functionality of components. Have you ever used a Sharp Base for Attack Customizations? This is what I was trying to say
The Square Edge has a shape that is useless for Defense, and even if it sees some use in this kind of combo, it will be an outclassed component for its bad shape.
Anyway, I'll do some tests during the next week.
It should be mentioned that Square Edge has minor use for defense, but is heavily outclassed. Not much else to add here
Whether it is outclassed or not it's use in the type still needs to be determined.
(Jun. 29, 2012 6:42 PM)Galaxy Wrote:(Jun. 29, 2012 6:13 PM)Ultra Wrote: Uh the point of Beywiki is to understand all of a bey's uses so that's a pretty silly question. If we didn't test out things that don't seem to have any use then we'd never have known about that Galzzly and Gaia Dragoon V's parts go together to create a very good attack AR.
Yeah, but there should be a common sense that all of us should use to understand the functionality of components. Have you ever used a Sharp Base for Attack Customizations? This is what I was trying to say
The Square Edge has a shape that is useless for Defense, and even if it sees some use in this kind of combo, it will be an outclassed component for its bad shape.
Anyway, I'll do some tests during the next week.
I know it's a bit of a stretch, however it was mentioned on Damashii and another place I read, so it needs to be checked out.
Anyway, to cut through the argument, the main reason for its use is it's attack ability combined with its weight. This is hard to test without a second person and some practice aiming to hit them before they touch the stadium, but a suitably powerful launch should emulate it somewhat.
Looking back, I'm starting to have large doubts about it working, especially now I have done a lot of work with Weight Based Defense, including using Mirage Goddess, which should do the aggression thing better in right spin. But, this whole thing is aimed at finding "some darned use for this thing", even if it's outclassed.
I'd appreciate if you could do some tests perhaps against an SG Semi Flat compact, as while it wouldn't test the defense that much, I usually find it's a good way to discern whether the AR will have enough survival and any notable attack ability.
![[Image: UwZsp7A.png]](https://i.imgur.com/UwZsp7A.png)
(Jun. 30, 2012 10:51 AM)th!nk Wrote: I'd appreciate if you could do some tests perhaps against an SG Semi Flat compact, as while it wouldn't test the defense that much, I usually find it's a good way to discern whether the AR will have enough survival and any notable attack ability.
Ah, if the main reason of this kind of test is to find out any use in Gattyaki.. yes, it makes more sense!
However, as you said, it will be very difficult playing alone. Mainly, because playing with a SG Metal Ball I won't have aggressive movements, and I could miss the OHKO.
From the tests I did, this combo gave me the best results for OHKO, or something like it.
Quote:Use in Smash Attack Customization
AR: Square Edge
WD: Wide Defence
SG: HMC (Metal Driger)
BB: Storm Base (Dragoon S)
This is a heavy Customization, and the fast movement created by Storm Base with the Sliding Shoot technique will increase your chance to win in the first moments of a Match, which is where most of this Combo's KO's are.
The shape is really similar to Flash GB RF, but less aggressive of course, haha.
I'm thinking to test the weight based defense combinations during the next "Plastic & HMS Remembrance Day" where we'll be more players for sure
Anyway, I'm strongly convinced that even if it works, it's an outcalssed combo. The Square Edge has an outclassed shape, there are a lot of others excellent ARs that can be used for Gattyaki in weight based defense combinations.
About this:
(Jun. 30, 2012 10:51 AM)th!nk Wrote: I'd appreciate if you could do some tests perhaps against an SG Semi Flat compact, as while it wouldn't test the defense that much, I usually find it's a good way to discern whether the AR will have enough survival and any notable attack ability.
Sure, I can. Anyway, I'm assuming that you're not interested in Gattyaki during this test, right?
SG metal ball is more aggressive than storm grip to be honest, storm grip is really bad as a smash base. Try to launch it aggressively.
Also, if it's weaker than triple wing, it's just a bad smash AR, OHKO has to at least match that power level to be at all worthwhile.
Also, if it's weaker than triple wing, it's just a bad smash AR, OHKO has to at least match that power level to be at all worthwhile.
(Jul. 01, 2012 3:53 PM)th!nk Wrote: SG metal ball is more aggressive than storm grip to be honest, storm grip is really bad as a smash base. Try to launch it aggressively.
Also, if it's weaker than triple wing, it's just a bad smash AR, OHKO has to at least match that power level to be at all worthwhile.
Really? I've always launched it with the "classic" defensive shoot!
I'll try it for sure.
Its Smash Attack is really weaker than Triple Wing! That's the reason of my doubts of its effectiveness in Gattyaki or OHKO combos
Anyway, I'll test it.
Even then I get some aggro out of all of mine, not super aggro, but then Storm Grip isn't particularly quick (look at it's tiny little tip).
Well, you don't need a great attack AR for gatyakki but I personally don't use gatyakki, I aim to hit them before either bey hits the stadium, not quite the same thing, and for that you really don't need much attack in your AR, just weight and some range, personally I use Smash Turtle (Master Draciel), which also works great once it's inthe stadium.
As for OHKO, yeah, we need to be more careful with the term, it should be used for AR's that CAN actually KO in one hit reliably (i.e. have loads of smash) but need to get that early hit because their recoil means they lose a lot of force after that. Dragoon V2's AR is a really good example of that kind of thing. I know there are other things on the wiki like Whale Crusher (Seaborg 2), but if you check that article it says it "can" be used for OHKO, not that it's any good - which it isn't, like Cyber Dragoon's AR it has relatively little power because it doesn't focus its hits. We kinda need to do a cleanup of those sorts of things but it's not something we can hope to be able to do until someone who actually gives a damn about plastics and articles for them has the ability to approve articles and edits.
Well, you don't need a great attack AR for gatyakki but I personally don't use gatyakki, I aim to hit them before either bey hits the stadium, not quite the same thing, and for that you really don't need much attack in your AR, just weight and some range, personally I use Smash Turtle (Master Draciel), which also works great once it's inthe stadium.
As for OHKO, yeah, we need to be more careful with the term, it should be used for AR's that CAN actually KO in one hit reliably (i.e. have loads of smash) but need to get that early hit because their recoil means they lose a lot of force after that. Dragoon V2's AR is a really good example of that kind of thing. I know there are other things on the wiki like Whale Crusher (Seaborg 2), but if you check that article it says it "can" be used for OHKO, not that it's any good - which it isn't, like Cyber Dragoon's AR it has relatively little power because it doesn't focus its hits. We kinda need to do a cleanup of those sorts of things but it's not something we can hope to be able to do until someone who actually gives a damn about plastics and articles for them has the ability to approve articles and edits.
Has anyone done the testing with this in weight based defense to see how it works? If not, could someone get some videos of launching a weight based defender with it into a basic compact (Metal ball base or SG Semi Flat+HMC, for minimal movement)? Basically, a video of it gattyakki-ing a few times?
That way, at the very least I can do the same with my mirage goddess and look at the power of its hits in that situation to compare them a bit, though if you have mirage goddess and are willing to use it, a general comparison would be great, video or not.
I just really want to get this up, haha.
Don't make me track down a manta diver just for this, please. I already sacrificed the last unbroken part of my original Ariel 2 for beywiki today, and I'd rather get beyblades I actually care for for my birthday
That way, at the very least I can do the same with my mirage goddess and look at the power of its hits in that situation to compare them a bit, though if you have mirage goddess and are willing to use it, a general comparison would be great, video or not.
I just really want to get this up, haha.
Don't make me track down a manta diver just for this, please. I already sacrificed the last unbroken part of my original Ariel 2 for beywiki today, and I'd rather get beyblades I actually care for for my birthday
Unfortunately, we didn't have enough time because we had to take the last train of the day to come back home
Anyway, tomorrow I've organized the Plastic event at my home, haha. But, sorry no... I won't sacrifice my Mirage Goddes to compare results
For the video: I really don't know why my PC doesn't accept video from my camera, I'll try to see if darkwocher can record something with its ca,era or mobile phone to have something to see on this thread, haha!
Anyway, tomorrow I've organized the Plastic event at my home, haha. But, sorry no... I won't sacrifice my Mirage Goddes to compare results
For the video: I really don't know why my PC doesn't accept video from my camera, I'll try to see if darkwocher can record something with its ca,era or mobile phone to have something to see on this thread, haha!
Ok, tests have been done today.
The combo I used was:
AR: Square Edge
WD: 10 Heavy
SG: Right SG + HMC
BB: SG Metal Ball with 4 MBs
I tried it against:
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: 10 Heavy
SG: Right SG + HMC
BB: Metal Change Base
15 matches have been done, and it won 6 times against the "Driger S". I've tried as many Gattyaki as possible, but it is quite difficult, haha!
I was able to do 8 Gattyaki, but due to the walls a couple of times and because of the strong of Driger S, it was not easy to obtain that kind of victory.
Then, I tried it against: Driger V2+Wide Defense+HMC.
The "Driger V2" won 14 times on 15, it is a really heavy tank.
Then, I tried it against:
AR: War Lion
S-AR: War Lion
WD: 6 Heavy
SG: Right SG + HMC
BB: Semi-Flat
and the "Galeon Attacker" won 8 times on 15. Here, I won with the "Square Edge combo" thanks to "Gattyaki" for 5 times. Then it won for KOs.
The combo I used was:
AR: Square Edge
WD: 10 Heavy
SG: Right SG + HMC
BB: SG Metal Ball with 4 MBs
I tried it against:
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: 10 Heavy
SG: Right SG + HMC
BB: Metal Change Base
15 matches have been done, and it won 6 times against the "Driger S". I've tried as many Gattyaki as possible, but it is quite difficult, haha!
I was able to do 8 Gattyaki, but due to the walls a couple of times and because of the strong of Driger S, it was not easy to obtain that kind of victory.
Then, I tried it against: Driger V2+Wide Defense+HMC.
The "Driger V2" won 14 times on 15, it is a really heavy tank.
Then, I tried it against:
AR: War Lion
S-AR: War Lion
WD: 6 Heavy
SG: Right SG + HMC
BB: Semi-Flat
and the "Galeon Attacker" won 8 times on 15. Here, I won with the "Square Edge combo" thanks to "Gattyaki" for 5 times. Then it won for KOs.
Hm. Okay, I'll mess around with Mirage Goddess today and see what I can do. Did you get a chance to make a video?
Thanks very much
Thanks very much
(Jul. 27, 2012 11:07 PM)th!nk Wrote: Hm. Okay, I'll mess around with Mirage Goddess today and see what I can do. Did you get a chance to make a video?
Thanks very much
Nothing to do, sorry
Anyway, if you're thinking to other combos that I could use against the Square Edge or that I could do with it, please let me know, because I'll have another testing session with my team on Wednesday
Try it out for straight up attack like you said and do a comparison to uh.... Triple Wing or Cross Griffon, with actual results. It's not neccessary but it would be absolutely perfect.
(Jul. 29, 2012 2:28 PM)th!nk Wrote: Try it out for straight up attack like you said and do a comparison to uh.... Triple Wing or Cross Griffon, with actual results. It's not neccessary but it would be absolutely perfect.
Sure!
But, do you mean Square Edge vs Triple Wing\Cross Griffon or Triple Wing\Cross Griffon against the combos I used to test the square edge and then compare results?
The second one
Sorry for the delay,
some more tests have been done, and the results are:
_____________________________
The combo I used was:
AR: Triple Wing
WD: 10 Heavy
SG: Right SG + HMC
BB: SG Metal Ball with 4 MBs
I tried it against the same combos that I used the last time, that were:
1)
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: 10 Heavy
SG: Right SG + HMC
BB: Metal Change Base
2) Driger V2+Wide Defense+HMC.
3)
AR: War Lion
S-AR: War Lion
WD: 6 Heavy
SG: Right SG + HMC
BB: Semi-Flat
I've done 15 matches for all of them.
Results
Triple Wing 9 - 1) 6
Triple Wing 3 - 2) 12
Triple Wing 12 - 3) 3
Hope it helps
some more tests have been done, and the results are:
_____________________________
The combo I used was:
AR: Triple Wing
WD: 10 Heavy
SG: Right SG + HMC
BB: SG Metal Ball with 4 MBs
I tried it against the same combos that I used the last time, that were:
1)
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: 10 Heavy
SG: Right SG + HMC
BB: Metal Change Base
2) Driger V2+Wide Defense+HMC.
3)
AR: War Lion
S-AR: War Lion
WD: 6 Heavy
SG: Right SG + HMC
BB: Semi-Flat
I've done 15 matches for all of them.
Results
Triple Wing 9 - 1) 6
Triple Wing 3 - 2) 12
Triple Wing 12 - 3) 3
Hope it helps