Yeah, that top tier list discussion sure is going great, it's RIGHT up to date


ATTACK
Metal Face Lightning L-Drago 90/100/CH120/BD145 RF/LRF/R2F
Metal Face Vulcan Horuseus 85/90/100/CH120 RF/R2F


BRB, using vulcan at a tournament cos it's totally top tier, how can I fail?

Also, Vulcan > Beat, Gravity, MLD, LDD, Fang, Variares, etc etc etc.


Seriously, half the members of the forum aren't even active, or weren't active for extremely long periods. It's ridiculous. There are week long breaks between posts in the forum, and nothing actually gets done. Heck, when it was introduced and there was discussion about unbanning libra, I actually had to make a thread and do hundreds of rounds of testing off my own initiative to actually get anything done, because it was going NOWHERE!

Currently, the discussion of re-adding gravity, and actually updating anything on there. NOTHING IS HAPPENING, and it's bloody obvious. :\ Come on, how is that an effective, functioning system?!?

It's a great idea, yes, but the execution is terrible.

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EDIT: Updated the post. Just to make my argument/objections clearer.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

It'd be great if some members could step it up, take the initiative, and qualify to be an Advanced Member. There are many potential people here for that, yet they can't seem to realize it. If there were more Advanced Members I think that some things as th!nk mentioned would get done around here. What are they? I can't really specify, but I can tell for sure that there are some things that need to be done.

yay for suggestions :\

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How do I still have 17th most posts here...?

Yeah, that top tier list discussion sure is going great, it's RIGHT up to date


ATTACK
Metal Face Lightning L-Drago 90/100/CH120/BD145 RF/LRF/R2F
Metal Face Vulcan Horuseus 85/90/100/CH120 RF/R2F


BRB, using vulcan at a tournament cos it's totally top tier, how can I fail?

Also, Vulcan > Beat, Gravity, MLD, LDD, Fang, Variares, etc etc etc.

can you honestly say though, that it would be any different if there was no advanced forums, or if it was easy to get into? This is IMO an invalid point; it's far less productive when there's constantly members correcting each other, with pages between each thoughtful post. Honestly though, how many other people would be capable of holding a serious conversation that has many contradictions and several paths? You, hero, and deikailo are the only people I can think of off the top of my head that can actually do it. So would it really turn into a fast changing and always updated list with 3 extra people? No.
There's so many people that have general knowledge of beyblade, but is general enough to you?

Also, the tier list has always been slow, and always will be slow. That's not necessarily a bad thing or necessarily a good thing

I'm not trying to toot my own horn because I'm now an advanced member, but if you had asked me 2 months ago if I thought I was capable of it, I would've said no. But even with my first posts in the basalt topic, it's actually really different posting in there than anywhere else

Seriously, half the members of the forum aren't even active, or weren't active for extremely long periods. It's ridiculous. There are week long breaks between posts in the forum, and nothing actually gets done.

that's nobody's fault. And that's not because of too high standards either.

Currently, the discussion of re-adding gravity, and actually updating anything on there. NOTHING IS HAPPENING, and it's bloody obvious. :\ Come on, how is that an effective, functioning system?!?

That's a patience issue. Most people who need it anyways ask in Build Me a Combo. The other people actually care to learn and read around the forums. So it doesn't necessarily always have to be up to date. Yeah it'd be best if it was all perfectly up to each release, but parts take several months to get on the list, so it's just natural that the tier list is a little bit behind what's been happening at tournaments. When has the tier list been perfectly up to date?

It's a great idea, yes, but the execution is terrible.

I think thats naive.


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I'm not trying to bloat, or say that I know it all, but I just disagree with this.

Can you honestly say though, that it would be any different if there was no advanced forums, or if it was easy to get into? This is IMO an invalid point; it's far less productive when there's constantly members correcting each other, with pages between each thoughtful post. Honestly though, how many other people would be capable of holding a serious conversation that has many contradictions and several paths? You, hero, and deikailo are the only people I can think of off the top of my head that can actually do it. So would it really turn into a fast changing and always updated list with 3 extra people? No.
There's so many people that have general knowledge of beyblade, but is general enough to you?

Also, the tier list has always been slow, and always will be slow. That's not necessarily a bad thing or necessarily a good thing

Yes, it would be different. I can say that. I've forced discussions before,being bold is not as hard as people seem to think.

Problem is, the people who actually know what is/isn't top tier, or help tell others what is/isn't top tier, aren't actually able to discuss the issue because they aren't "good enough".

I'm not trying to toot my own horn because I'm now an advanced member, but if you had asked me 2 months ago if I thought I was capable of it, I would've said no. But even with my first posts in the basalt topic, it's actually really different posting in there than anywhere else

I know it's different. But a lot of advanced members aren't even active, and when they are, still no one actually pushes the discussion enough.

Seriously, half the members of the forum aren't even active, or weren't active for extremely long periods. It's ridiculous. There are week long breaks between posts in the forum, and nothing actually gets done.

that's nobody's fault. And that's not because of too high standards either.

Currently, the discussion of re-adding gravity, and actually updating anything on there. NOTHING IS HAPPENING, and it's bloody obvious. :\ Come on, how is that an effective, functioning system?!?

That's a patience issue. Most people who need it anyways ask in Build Me a Combo. The other people actually care to learn and read around the forums. So it doesn't necessarily always have to be up to date. Yeah it'd be best if it was all perfectly up to each release, but parts take several months to get on the list, so it's just natural that the tier list is a little bit behind what's been happening at tournaments. When has the tier list been perfectly up to date?

It's common knowledge what is/isn't top tier, or at least within one months accuracy (as people keep combo's secret). Whereas the top tier list is usually 3 months+ out of date, which is dumb. As said before, the people who help out in these threads aren't able to discuss it because they're "not good enough".

It's a great idea, yes, but the execution is terrible.

I think thats naive.

Rest of my post answers this.

I'm not trying to bloat, or say that I know it all, but I just disagree with this.

Ditto for me about your post.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Can you honestly say though, that it would be any different if there was no advanced forums, or if it was easy to get into? This is IMO an invalid point; it's far less productive when there's constantly members correcting each other, with pages between each thoughtful post. Honestly though, how many other people would be capable of holding a serious conversation that has many contradictions and several paths? You, hero, and deikailo are the only people I can think of off the top of my head that can actually do it. So would it really turn into a fast changing and always updated list with 3 extra people? No.
There's so many people that have general knowledge of beyblade, but is general enough to you?

Also, the tier list has always been slow, and always will be slow. That's not necessarily a bad thing or necessarily a good thing

Yes, it would be different. I can say that. I've forced discussions before,being bold is not as hard as people seem to think.

Problem is, the people who actually know what is/isn't top tier, or help tell others what is/isn't top tier, aren't actually able to discuss the issue because they aren't "good enough".

well then people should do that. Just because someone isn't in the advanced forum doesn't mean they can't do something to prove something is worthy of top tier.
Forgive me if I missed the point for the first mini paragraph, but I don't see how it answers the question. People can be bold whether they're an advanced member or not. Just because they aren't Veteran members doesn't mean their point is invalid and pointless. If they can portray their point accurately, then that really wouldn't be different inside or outside of the advanced forum.

Seriously, half the members of the forum aren't even active, or weren't active for extremely long periods. It's ridiculous. There are week long breaks between posts in the forum, and nothing actually gets done.

that's nobody's fault. And that's not because of too high standards either.

Currently, the discussion of re-adding gravity, and actually updating anything on there. NOTHING IS HAPPENING, and it's bloody obvious. :\ Come on, how is that an effective, functioning system?!?

That's a patience issue. Most people who need it anyways ask in Build Me a Combo. The other people actually care to learn and read around the forums. So it doesn't necessarily always have to be up to date. Yeah it'd be best if it was all perfectly up to each release, but parts take several months to get on the list, so it's just natural that the tier list is a little bit behind what's been happening at tournaments. When has the tier list been perfectly up to date?

It's common knowledge what is/isn't top tier, or at least within one months accuracy (as people keep combo's secret). Whereas the top tier list is usually 3 months+ out of date, which is dumb. As said before, the people who help out in these threads aren't able to discuss it because they're "not good enough".

I would like to give an example. Lightning l drago BD145 RF/LRF. Was that found out right when BD145 was released?
Were the combos right now that use maximum series parts the same combos as the first month of maximum series being released? Was the strengths that basalt has now found within the first few months?

It's pointless being even 1 month up to date if it has to be changed in weeks because of "a super new killer awesome combo of destruction...oh this is the end of the metagame!" ...

Can you honestly say though, that it would be any different if there was no advanced forums, or if it was easy to get into? This is IMO an invalid point; it's far less productive when there's constantly members correcting each other, with pages between each thoughtful post. Honestly though, how many other people would be capable of holding a serious conversation that has many contradictions and several paths? You, hero, and deikailo are the only people I can think of off the top of my head that can actually do it. So would it really turn into a fast changing and always updated list with 3 extra people? No.
There's so many people that have general knowledge of beyblade, but is general enough to you?

Also, the tier list has always been slow, and always will be slow. That's not necessarily a bad thing or necessarily a good thing

Yes, it would be different. I can say that. I've forced discussions before,being bold is not as hard as people seem to think.

Problem is, the people who actually know what is/isn't top tier, or help tell others what is/isn't top tier, aren't actually able to discuss the issue because they aren't "good enough".

well then people should do that. Just because someone isn't in the advanced forum doesn't mean they can't do something to prove something is worthy of top tier.
Forgive me if I missed the point for the first mini paragraph, but I don't see how it answers the question. People can be bold whether they're an advanced member or not. Just because they aren't Veteran members doesn't mean their point is invalid and pointless. If they can portray their point accurately, then that really wouldn't be different inside or outside of the advanced forum.

These people SHOULD be able to discuss it with you guys. Sometimes it's more than testing that's needed.
Loads of us complain about the tier list, it's a recurring joke outside of the advanced forum, and NOTHING BLOODY HAPPENS. It actually makes me angry.
And anyway, aren't you guys the people who are SUPPOSED to be doing this?!? THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE AN ITALICISED NAME.

Seriously, half the members of the forum aren't even active, or weren't active for extremely long periods. It's ridiculous. There are week long breaks between posts in the forum, and nothing actually gets done.

that's nobody's fault. And that's not because of too high standards either.

Currently, the discussion of re-adding gravity, and actually updating anything on there. NOTHING IS HAPPENING, and it's bloody obvious. :\ Come on, how is that an effective, functioning system?!?

That's a patience issue. Most people who need it anyways ask in Build Me a Combo. The other people actually care to learn and read around the forums. So it doesn't necessarily always have to be up to date. Yeah it'd be best if it was all perfectly up to each release, but parts take several months to get on the list, so it's just natural that the tier list is a little bit behind what's been happening at tournaments. When has the tier list been perfectly up to date?

It's common knowledge what is/isn't top tier, or at least within one months accuracy (as people keep combo's secret). Whereas the top tier list is usually 3 months+ out of date, which is dumb. As said before, the people who help out in these threads aren't able to discuss it because they're "not good enough".

I would like to give an example. Lightning l drago BD145 RF/LRF. Was that found out right when BD145 was released?
Were the combos right now that use maximum series parts the same combos as the first month of maximum series being released? Was the strengths that basalt has now found within the first few months?

It's pointless being even 1 month up to date if it has to be changed in weeks because of "a super new killer awesome combo of destruction...oh this is the end of the metagame!" ...

What. The. Carp.

It's supposed to give a depiction of what is known to work at the time!!!!!!!!!! New combo's will always be coming out, by your logic the whole idea of having the list at all is pointless. I think that covers it, I mean, you're quite simply WRONG.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

th!nk, who are "those people" who apparently prove combinations to be perfectly top-tier and who should be discussing it in the Advanced Forum. List usernames. Do it in private message if you need, but seriously, I am not thinking of many.

I'mma miss a few as my memory is carp. Basically, look at the relevant threads and look at the people giving good answers. Here's a list, however, of people a few of us have thought of that should be advanced but aren't, with some justification. Not exactly what you're asking for, but it's worth posting:

Deikailo: Seriously, c’mon, she’s done more for the community than most of you have. How many blading communities has she started up? She’d post more if she wasn’t busy actually blading.

ControL_: Easily one of the smartest members on the site. He knows his physics, and everything about competitive blading, better than just about anyone. He has helped me out on numerous occasions, and I owe him plenty.

LeeDraciel: He is a BAWSE. I’ve barely spoken to him, and he could post more, but he still posts more than a lot of advanced members.

Arupaeo: He’s smart. He could post more, but every post he makes is brilliant. He basically broke the whole “HASBRO IS HEAVIER” myth, he notices stuff that most of us miss, and again, he knows his shiz.

th!nk: Not to be presumptuous, but I get a PM a week asking why I’m not advanced yet, so I figure I'm worth listing. While I’m not completely interested in MFB right now, I still have basically every part from before Scythe Kronos, and I can get up to speed real fast. Yeah, haven’t been super active lately, I’ve been busy/tired. A lot of advanced members haven’t been active either.

If they’re active any more:
RustyXD: Tested his carp off, to the point of fatigue, and he backs up what he says.

Hero: He’s smart, he doesn’t make bad posts, he tests like crazy. He’s not here right now, but he never, ever got the recognition he deserved. He’s also an awesome guy.

No offence anyone I missed, this was just off the top of my head, I know I’ve forgotten people, and I apologise.

There are a few people who fit the criteria you've mentioned that couldn't be advanced for various reasons, but yeah, for those various reasons I haven't listed them. As I've said, that's why I think a second grouping should be introduced for people who know what they're talking about. Raigeko13, Nano, Janstarblast, etc etc, people who answer the questions and get it right.
Those of them that lack a BB-10 (Rai, Jan) or only have one beyblade (Jan), do more work than many of us as they have to work out from others postings what does and doesn't work, they can't check for themselves, so they have to be careful not to mislead people.

There are plenty more, but I don't keep an eye on many of the threads they post in, because as I've said, I've been busy, and I've given up on a couple of those threads for the time being.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Well, in my opinoin. With Kei, I think he rather waits for the outcome of an tournament. And the Winning Combinations thread. Maybe one of the reasons it takes a while? Usually Kei would post winning combos in the Adv forums, talk it out with other members until that particular combo/parts is actually competitive? Also, I think it was a bit selfish/stubborn to include yourself too. I mean its all up to Kai-V and other commitee members. Not going against you or anything. Just saying my thoughts.

---

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Strive for greatness.

Then I just want to let you know, th!nk, that we know about those people. That is all I will write.

There are less deserving people who are advanced members, to be blunt, and being a little more open with the members I mentioned would be a good idea. Also, when you're discussing something as big as banning basalt right now, I think more people should be able to discuss it.

@®: When was the last time Vulcan placed? Seriously, the top tiers list doesn't represent the winning combo's thread at all.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

What. The. Carp.

It's supposed to give a depiction of what is known to work at the time!!!!!!!!!! New combo's will always be coming out, by your logic the whole idea of having the list at all is pointless. I think that covers it, I mean, you're quite simply WRONG.

This is going to be my last post on this, I see this possibly turning into an argument and I'd rather avoid that.

About a week ago, in beyblade random thoughts, I posted on how I didn't like the format of the Top tier list. Kei responded with this:

But the ambiguity of it is what makes it good. In being ambiguous, we challenge Bladers to experiment themselves and read around the forums; the way the list is now makes it easy enough to build a great custom, but if we were to just come out and say which customs are the "best" no one would learn anything (and besides, opinions vary on which variations/customs are the "best").

And this:

Shabalabadoo, I see what you're saying, but to me the Competitive Metal Fight Beyblade Combos thread is more of a "starting point" than anything else. It isn't supposed to provide all of the answers. And we can't control what people do or don't do after they read it.

I think that same idea goes here

Eh, I will never be able to redeem myself in the eyes of the committee anyway. Not worth trying. It's a shame, really.

What. The. Carp.

It's supposed to give a depiction of what is known to work at the time!!!!!!!!!! New combo's will always be coming out, by your logic the whole idea of having the list at all is pointless. I think that covers it, I mean, you're quite simply WRONG.

This is going to be my last post on this, I see this possibly turning into an argument and I'd rather avoid that.

About a week ago, in beyblade random thoughts, I posted on how I didn't like the format of the Top tier list. Kei responded with this:

But the ambiguity of it is what makes it good. In being ambiguous, we challenge Bladers to experiment themselves and read around the forums; the way the list is now makes it easy enough to build a great custom, but if we were to just come out and say which customs are the "best" no one would learn anything (and besides, opinions vary on which variations/customs are the "best").

And this:

Shabalabadoo, I see what you're saying, but to me the Competitive Metal Fight Beyblade Combos thread is more of a "starting point" than anything else. It isn't supposed to provide all of the answers. And we can't control what people do or don't do after they read it.

I think that same idea goes here

Ambiguity is one thing, being incorrect is another. I agree the format is wrong, but wtf can I do?

Also, as for what Kei has said, the main job of the list is to tell newbies what is actually good, so I don't really agree at all. :\

I'd rather you did reply, I'm not trying to turn this into an argument, I'm trying, as usual, to actually make a difference. As futile as my efforts may be, it's something I live by, so meh :\

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

^Well, good point but guess what? In my metagame Vulcan is still being used. If I recall, at the Spring Cherry blossom. aphonicfool I think[?] used MF Vulcan85RF but got beat my basalt combos.And at the blademore tourney one kid used VulcanHorusues145XF, he had a good streak until he got beat by basalt combos. If basalt never existed, it would be used a bit more. Probably why Vulcan is still up. As a matter of fact, Vulcan would be dominating for right spin attack if Basalt wasnt here. See, you're mainly focusing on parts that beats a basalt combo.

Another thing it doesnt have to represents the winning combos at all. If you were more wise, over 75-90% have the same parts in the Winning combos and Adv thread. Just look closely. That is all. To me Kei is doing the right thing.

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Click here for the most classic thread on WBO of all time. Enjoy!

Strive for greatness.

What. The. Carp.

It's supposed to give a depiction of what is known to work at the time!!!!!!!!!! New combo's will always be coming out, by your logic the whole idea of having the list at all is pointless. I think that covers it, I mean, you're quite simply WRONG.

This is going to be my last post on this, I see this possibly turning into an argument and I'd rather avoid that.

About a week ago, in beyblade random thoughts, I posted on how I didn't like the format of the Top tier list. Kei responded with this:

But the ambiguity of it is what makes it good. In being ambiguous, we challenge Bladers to experiment themselves and read around the forums; the way the list is now makes it easy enough to build a great custom, but if we were to just come out and say which customs are the "best" no one would learn anything (and besides, opinions vary on which variations/customs are the "best").

And this:

Shabalabadoo, I see what you're saying, but to me the Competitive Metal Fight Beyblade Combos thread is more of a "starting point" than anything else. It isn't supposed to provide all of the answers. And we can't control what people do or don't do after they read it.

I think that same idea goes here

Ambiguity is one thing, being incorrect is another. I agree the format is wrong, but wtf can I do?

Also, as for what Kei has said, the main job of the list is to tell newbies what is actually good, so I don't really agree at all. :\

I'd rather you did reply, I'm not trying to turn this into an argument, I'm trying, as usual, to actually make a difference. As futile as my efforts may be, it's something I live by, so meh :\

Sorry, I should've edited the ambiguity part out. The point in that one was about the reading around.

Then that's something you should talk about with Kei. Still; I stand by those points.

I am quite sure nobody used Vulcan in any tournament, yet it was definitely good, if it is not still quite good now as well.

@® Yeah, because it's WAY better than those wheels I listed, it'd totally be dominating. Libra messes it up too, btw. And currently, basalt ISN'T banned. As for being used, as you've said, it ISN'T WINNING.
You SAID it was supposed to represent that thread or something along those lines. Seriously, what goes on in your head?

Kai-V, Vulcan is okay, but it's not up to the standard of the other wheels I've listed, and that was a long list. Considering none of them are top tier, it shouldn't be.

Have we all forgotten RS/RSF so soon?

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Also, as for what Kei has said, the main job of the list is to tell newbies what is actually good, so I don't really agree at all. :\

I see what you mean on the starting point but wouldnt it be more exciting to have competitive beginners? The metagame would be much hotter eh? Its still fierce now heh. For instance, Dark Mousy, perfect example. He won his first tourney facing up one of the toughest opponents in our community Deikailo and The Problem[? amiright? lol]


How does Libra messes up? You're underestimating its wadload of uses still being used today. But meh, we'll sort it out tomorrow, Im kind of tired. heh

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Okay, if I'm not an advanced blader, then you shouldn't be worried about my placing at SSS tournaments, right, Virginie?

Also, as for what Kei has said, the main job of the list is to tell newbies what is actually good, so I don't really agree at all. :\

I see what you mean on the starting point but wouldnt it be more exciting to have competitive beginners? The metagame would be much hotter eh? Its still fierce now heh. For instance, Dark Mousy, perfect example. He won his first tourney facing up one of the toughest opponents in our community Deikailo and The Problem[? amiright? lol]

I don't see your point. It's supposed to help them BE competitive... Right now, a lot of the combo's on it will do poorly.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

All of you PLEASE just DROP THE DAMNED SUBJECT.
It is apparent to every single one of you that each of you are frustrated about something, if you have something to say, say it dammit. Don't say it is an overly long worded paragraph TH!NK, say it in a small post explaining why you're mad. That goes for all of you.
If you feel like I need to be warned for this post, please do so, I'm only trying to stop what's apparently about to happen.

@th!nk
Is this really about tiers?
Really?
REALLY?
People have the brains to figure out what is good and what is not. It is YOUR responsibly as a blader to figure that out. For people who can't figure that out, that's why Build Me A Combo is there.

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How do I still have 17th most posts here...?

He's saying that there are "undiscovered" members who have advanced skill, but if they don't post in the forums regarding their skill, then why bother making them advanced?

Then I just want to let you know, th!nk, that we know about those people. That is all I will write.

^ I think this was an simple answer to th!nk's question.

---

Click here for the most classic thread on WBO of all time. Enjoy!

Strive for greatness.

dei: That's a fair point then, but obviously they needn't be advanced if they don't actually post, tbh, that'd be pointless. I don't really get the relevance tbh.

@Raigeko: I am trying to say everything that needs to be said, as I've said, I'm not trying to be divisive or whatever, I'm just trying to fix something I think is broken.

@®: If you bothered to read, you'd see I don't think it is sufficient at all. Maybe you should read the discussion properly before replying again?

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List