Is LLD considered the worst of all the Tier 1 Attack Wheels? Or is it better than Fang?
(this might belong in ask a Q, get an A, but I'm not sure...)
(this might belong in ask a Q, get an A, but I'm not sure...)
MFB Tiers list Last Updated 27/12/11
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That's what I'm also beginning to wonder. With all the 4D Beys emerging, I'm beginning to think that Lightning LDrago is becoming outclassed. I can't vouch for Gravity because I only have LLD at the moment, but I'd also like to know where Gravity and Lightning LDrago stand in Tier 1 now.
Vari > Blitz > Beat > LDD > Gravity = Phantom > LLD > Horse > David Spade > Fang.
![[Image: hazelsignature2.jpg]](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/OrochiStorm/hazelsignature2.jpg)
Hold your horses: Gravity is not better than Lightning LDrago. If what you say is true, though, I am disappointed in Phantom, and those results of it beating Basalt BD145CS must be fictitious because Gravity can't do that..
I think you've contradicted yourself with LDD's standing there, because in other threads you've said Lightning trumped LDrago Destroy in power..
VariAres >/= Blitz > Beat >/= Phantom (unless, you know the tests were a lie
) > Lightning > Gravity > whatever else
I think you've contradicted yourself with LDD's standing there, because in other threads you've said Lightning trumped LDrago Destroy in power..
VariAres >/= Blitz > Beat >/= Phantom (unless, you know the tests were a lie
) > Lightning > Gravity > whatever else
![[Image: uKF94LK.gif]](https://i.imgur.com/uKF94LK.gif)
(Nov. 19, 2011 3:17 AM)Dan Wrote: Hold your horses: Gravity is not better than Lightning LDrago. If what you say is true, though, I am disappointed in Phantom, and those results of it beating Basalt BD145CS must be fictitious because Gravity can't do that..
I think you've contradicted yourself with LDD's standing there, because in other threads you've said Lightning trumped LDrago Destroy in power..
VariAres >/= Blitz > Beat >/= Phantom (unless, you know the tests were a lie
LDD has utility outside of straight up attack, thus its higher placement.
Gravity is better than LLD, again, because of utility. Oh, and Gravity combos CAN KO MF-H Basalt BD145CS - with about the same frequency I've seen people mention Phantom doing it. Honestly, Phantom's placement is awkward to begin with because I've not seen any consistency in any tests regarding it, but the most common opinion seems to be that it's a novelty Attacker, not a Heavyweight Champion.
Think with your whole metagame, not just your KO.
Utility outside of straight up attack? Which is..? Claimed upper the Italians say when it battles 230? 
JSHOCK:
Meh, I'll give up the Gravity point just 'cause of weak-launching.
JSHOCK:Meh, I'll give up the Gravity point just 'cause of weak-launching.
I'm not Italians and I don't care what goes on in their metagame. LDD can basically serve a dual-role as Quasi-Attack + Spin-Equalization. Gravity can also do that, effectively enough to win against current top tier threats. LLD DOES have some less-sheer-KO-oriented applications, but they're inferior in nature and do not stand up in the real world any more.
Really, my list was basically a "chance of winning in today's metagame list in any given application of the attack variety" list, not a sheer KO power list. Sheer KO would go...
Vari > Blitz > Beat > Phantom(assuming the better tests are more accurate) > Lightning = LDD(just about evenly matched in different categories of attacking) > Gravity > David Spade Riding Horse > Horse > David Spade > Little Richard > Fang.
Really, my list was basically a "chance of winning in today's metagame list in any given application of the attack variety" list, not a sheer KO power list. Sheer KO would go...
Vari > Blitz > Beat > Phantom(assuming the better tests are more accurate) > Lightning = LDD(just about evenly matched in different categories of attacking) > Gravity > David Spade Riding Horse > Horse > David Spade > Little Richard > Fang.
(Nov. 19, 2011 3:17 AM)Dan Wrote: ..... I am disappointed in Phantom, and those results of it beating Basalt BD145CS must be fictitious.......
VariAres >/= Blitz > Beat >/= Phantom (unless, you know the tests were a lie
*ka ching* Exactly. Although I wouldnt go as far as claiming them fictious. They're probably just extremely good with Phantom attack or really bad with Basalt BD145 CS, which is still hilghly doubtful for both cases.
For me, it would be:
VariAres > Blitz > Beat >/= LDD > Phantom >/= LLD > Gravity
At least the top three are agreed upon!
That's really all that matters in pure KO terms, since the top three are the only straight-KO MWs worth using whatsoever in tournaments.
That's really all that matters in pure KO terms, since the top three are the only straight-KO MWs worth using whatsoever in tournaments.
I find Phantom to get the same results as beat although it is more reliable , I don't think LDD deserves a place it cant KO anything on the same height/ lower then it.
btw he ad their not in order
![[Image: PXkfN.jpg]](https://gfxf.net/images/PXkfN.jpg)
RustyXD: Word, I really am not a fan of beat at all anymore, Phantom is so much more consistent, for me at least.
For Phantom, it doesn't matter what height the opponent is at, as related to its own height, to the same extent that it does with beat, which can make or break the match for Beat, everything hinges on the proper height of beat compared to the opponent. If you are in the 'magic ratio' of heights for Beat, you nearly cannot lose, if you know how to use Beat correctly that is, but if you are outside of that ratio, you nearly cannot win...
Blitz and Vari are definite no brainers for the list, it really doesn't matter if you are at 85/90/100/120/130/145 they can KO anything, though I would place Blitz ahead, only slightly, of VariAres only because it is easier to pick up and use, where with Vari, it takes a tiny bit getting used to... I get PM's frequently from members about VariAres, and 'they just got it and can't get consistent wins, or it seems too slow whatever etc'... So only because of the learning curve, I would place blitz ahead of VariAres, on this list anyway. Performance wise they are pretty much equals I would have to say, though the KO power of Blitz is nigh untouchable...
I truly feel the dual spin of VariAres to be irrelevant in the current meta, as it will KO with extreme prejudice regardless of spin direction, though this may very well change with future releases, and the dual spin will be tech... Honestly, there isn't anything I have found troubling to KO in right spin, to the extent that I forget it is dual spin half the time because, unlike gravity, you really do not need opposite spin in any situation, as of yet anyway.
Though Like I said previously, with the power creep happens in customizable games (which people act like this is some new phenomenon unique to BeyBlade, its been happening since the very beginning with Magic in 1993, and every game since), wheels consistently released at 43g+ and 45g with the new Wing Peg. and LDG... there very well may be a new super defense wheel coming that you will need that dual spin of VariAres that will make it a clear front runner, but until then I do not believe anyone can honestly put one ahead of the other, you may have a favorite, or you may do better with one over the other, as they do handle a bit differently, but if you practice and/or are comfortable with both, there is no real frontrunner against the field, and it comes down to personal preference... kinda like Bull vs Cancer IMO
For Phantom, it doesn't matter what height the opponent is at, as related to its own height, to the same extent that it does with beat, which can make or break the match for Beat, everything hinges on the proper height of beat compared to the opponent. If you are in the 'magic ratio' of heights for Beat, you nearly cannot lose, if you know how to use Beat correctly that is, but if you are outside of that ratio, you nearly cannot win...
Blitz and Vari are definite no brainers for the list, it really doesn't matter if you are at 85/90/100/120/130/145 they can KO anything, though I would place Blitz ahead, only slightly, of VariAres only because it is easier to pick up and use, where with Vari, it takes a tiny bit getting used to... I get PM's frequently from members about VariAres, and 'they just got it and can't get consistent wins, or it seems too slow whatever etc'... So only because of the learning curve, I would place blitz ahead of VariAres, on this list anyway. Performance wise they are pretty much equals I would have to say, though the KO power of Blitz is nigh untouchable...
I truly feel the dual spin of VariAres to be irrelevant in the current meta, as it will KO with extreme prejudice regardless of spin direction, though this may very well change with future releases, and the dual spin will be tech... Honestly, there isn't anything I have found troubling to KO in right spin, to the extent that I forget it is dual spin half the time because, unlike gravity, you really do not need opposite spin in any situation, as of yet anyway.
Though Like I said previously, with the power creep happens in customizable games (which people act like this is some new phenomenon unique to BeyBlade, its been happening since the very beginning with Magic in 1993, and every game since), wheels consistently released at 43g+ and 45g with the new Wing Peg. and LDG... there very well may be a new super defense wheel coming that you will need that dual spin of VariAres that will make it a clear front runner, but until then I do not believe anyone can honestly put one ahead of the other, you may have a favorite, or you may do better with one over the other, as they do handle a bit differently, but if you practice and/or are comfortable with both, there is no real frontrunner against the field, and it comes down to personal preference... kinda like Bull vs Cancer IMO
![[Image: WBO_sig.jpg]](https://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac271/Gibsonmac/WBO_sig.jpg)
I think VariAres is overall better then blitz when I first got it i could get consistent KO's easily. Blitz is still great but VariAres better. I think Beat is still a great part but it can't do anything VariAres , Blitz and Phantom can do easier same goes for LDD.
Yeah, well I still suck with variares against Basalt BD145CS/MB. I should have bought blitz, I guess. I've tried bloody everything and can't use Variares effectively against it on R145 or CH120, despite breaking two launcher handles in the process. Fine against anything else, but I/it hit/hits a basalt wall there.
Blitz: Don't have one, if it's more consistent than variares with similar power then it's undeniably top tier.
Phantom is good. Probably tier one, honestly.
Using Beat = Russian Roulette with 5 bullets.
LDD = Straight outclassed. Weak launch vulnerability does little to help it.
Blitz: Don't have one, if it's more consistent than variares with similar power then it's undeniably top tier.
Phantom is good. Probably tier one, honestly.
Using Beat = Russian Roulette with 5 bullets.
LDD = Straight outclassed. Weak launch vulnerability does little to help it.
![[Image: UwZsp7A.png]](https://i.imgur.com/UwZsp7A.png)
I can vouch for Blitz being easier to use and Rusty didn't you just recently get VariAres? Both Have (undeniably) the best smash attack in the metagame. Many consider VariAres to be more versatile because of its dual spin...I personally prefer Blitz and I swear If I had a dollar for each time I've explained this I would have.... $3 lol...
but yeah We can't compare them ATM because there are so many disagreements...
but yeah We can't compare them ATM because there are so many disagreements...
![[Image: H8Rs-Sig-1.gif]](https://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j323/StewieBlitz/H8Rs-Sig-1.gif)
blitz has more smash attack than vari ares, but vari ares can spin left and right, I think phantom is top tier 1 in attack or top tier 1.5, beat, fang and lld schould go in top tier 2, gravity perseus is top tier 1.5 too only because he can spin right and left but it looses against vari ares, I think we schould make a top tier 1.5 list in this system because often people can´t choose the right top tier or not? here a little list for attack from me in rang how good are the wheels:
Top tier 1: blitz and vari ares (both are the highest)
Phantom
L´drago destroy
Top tier 1.5 : (here I don´t know how to ranking the wheels but I think this is right)
Hell
beat
fang
gravity perseus
(have I forgotten one?)
top tier 2 :
big bang
vulcan
lld
mld
screw
.
.
.
Top tier 1: blitz and vari ares (both are the highest)
Phantom
L´drago destroy
Top tier 1.5 : (here I don´t know how to ranking the wheels but I think this is right)
Hell
beat
fang
gravity perseus
(have I forgotten one?)
top tier 2 :
big bang
vulcan
lld
mld
screw
.
.
.
...
"Top Tier 1.5"?
Seriously?
"Top Tier 1.5"?
Seriously?
think how often here are quarrel about question is it top tier 1 or top tier 2
All you've done is rename Tier 2 "Tier 1.5".
are you sure or have I made a list where you can which is really the best?
(Nov. 19, 2011 11:02 AM)Glowfire1 Wrote: are you sure or have I made a list where you can which is really the best?
I have no idea what that even means.
The list you made has a hilarious number of errors that show little understanding of each wheel's performance, but that was not my point. The point was that your "Tier 1.5" is a second tier. Tiers are not scores, you cannot have a tier that is not a positive, whole number. One tier will always be first, and the next following will be second, no matter what number you attach to it.
(Nov. 19, 2011 9:23 AM)H8R Wrote: I can vouch for Blitz being easier to use and Rusty didn't you just recently get VariAres? Both Have (undeniably) the best smash attack in the metagame. Many consider VariAres to be more versatile because of its dual spin...I personally prefer Blitz and I swear If I had a dollar for each time I've explained this I would have.... $3 lol...
but yeah We can't compare them ATM because there are so many disagreements...
Yeah I did just get both actually
I find VariAres to be slightly better although both are extremely good but in a tournament situation VariAres would be better to use (Not because of duel spin I just find that it is easier to KO with) although it could come down to the fact that I don't have CH120 (And need to do comparative testing but haven't had time). But they are both without question the best MW's in the game.@Th!nk I agree with everything you just said.
According to my Belief in what Th!nk just said VariAres and Blitz are in a league of their own. I mean seriously what other metal wheels can KO Basalt combos as easily as they can I don't have Phantom yet so IDK but I will have one soon and will test soon.