We are aware, and it will inevitably occur next time it's updated.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

How about scythe in the defence section?

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GFX SHOP

How about some reasoning?

It is round, (like basalt)
It is heavier than earth

oh w8, no.
it's more of a stamina defence hybrid, as the others have said.

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This post was made in relevance to plastics, but I read it yesterday and, I dunno, it kinda spoke to me. Basically, classifying beys as Offensive (aiming to defeat the opposing bey by knocking it out) and Defensive (aiming to out-spin).

http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Defense-...8#pid16218

Just something to think about :3

Anyways, more relevant:
Scythe saw a lot of use on BD145CS IIRC, and doing decently, so it's likely a decent defense wheel at least.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

It also did decently as an LTDC, MF-H Scythe Kronos 90CS.

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"In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations. The new needs friends. Last night, I experienced something new: an extraordinary meal from a singularly unexpected source. To say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking is a gross understatement. They have rocked me to my core. In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau's famous motto, "Anyone can cook." But I realize, only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist; but a great artist can come from anywhere."

-Anton Ego/Peter O'Toole (1932-2013)

Well Scythe does alright for defense but against Beat or anything better it gets 0%

That said, Variares does similar to Basalt in some testing, and scythe does quite decently tourney-wise.

That said, I don't have Scythe, so I don't have any first-hand experience as to how it compares.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

In a tournament it is good considering it has defense and stamina IMO Libra is better at it in defense but in a tournament I would choose scythe so you could get through the tougher stamina battles.

I think Phantom for Defense and attack tier 1 since it excels in both of those categories.

We may have to look at bumping the attack tiers down, most of current tier 1's to tier 2, seeing as Variares and Blitz basically kill them. That said, I'll not push that much further until my Variares arrives...

Does phantom compare to Variares/Blitz for attack? Or is it more Lightning level?

... Yeah, I'm waiting on Variares and Phantom to get here

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Oop, here they are!

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Well it is like a more reliable beat I guess it is better then lightning and if you are up against something like MF-H Basalt BD145RS you can just stall for a close finish usually phantom getting the win.

I do agree with you about tier 1 attack I think drop everything besides Blitz , VariAres , Beat ? , Phantom and LDD?

Okay, so, Variares is definitely a class ahead of lightning, and seeing as it doesn't need BD145's weight, it doesn't suffer the disgusting side-effects.

I'll try phantom later but I gotta go out. If you look at competitive combo's, Beat isn't considered consistent enough to be top-tier, a sentiment with which I fully agree.

Also, LDD would be tier 2. Variares basically does everything better. They even use similar combo's. Variares can also use right spin and isn't messed up by weak launch.

As for phantom, man, it's got great stamina even on RF. I'm still undecided about the power, but I need more time.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Well it gets some nice KO's against MF-H Basalt TH170CS and can OS the RS variant it doesn't have as much smash as VariAres or Blitz though. Yeah the ? marks were there because I was unsure but I agree with your statements

Personally, I think Lightning is still slightly better than Phantom for attack, which is still saying a lot about Phantom's attack capability.

But then again, maybe it's just me.

EDIT: Most would say that Phantom is better than Lightning, because most of the opposing beys are right spin, which is total impact. But Phantom is much easier to use for attack than Lightning, so it's another plus.

For me lightning is too light , but i think Phantom is slightly better then lightning IDK might do some comparative tests later or something.

Yep, Lightning's lack of weight is a huge issue, as it's main form of attack is upward smash. This means that against heavier wheels, it will struggle (hence needing BD145 to handle taller/same height basalt combinations).

I prefer phantom currently because I was using MF Phantom Orion CH120RF (Relatively fresh RF, Attack mode, Sliding shot) against MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS (Fresh, 'semi-aggro' CS, normal launch), and the 3 battles I did (small sample size, do not take as a fact) resulted in Phantom smashing it around and then OSing it. Three times in a row. I was impressed. Will try more in a minute, but I gotta go to work.

Phantom obviously reminds me of Burn on steroids. I used to quite like Burn as an attack wheel in similar setups, too. This does way better than that ever did, obviously, but yeah, I loved that it had decent stamina.

But yeah, Variares is definitely a tier ahead of lightning, considering what I'm watching it do to basalt bd145cs.

EDIT: Make that 5 straight OS's to phantom, and some very hard hits too. I won't do full testing right now because I want to fiddle around with stuff, but yeah.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Test against Gravity Perseus (Stamina) (both spins) BD145 (other than CS, maybe RS) to be completely fair..


EDIT:
@th!nk: no doubt Phantom would OS after series of attacks in comparison to Lightning. But I thought we're measuring smash power?

MF LLD BD145LRF doesn't KO it often either, and hits far less hard, yet it was considered top-tier attack.

That said, I'm undecided on tiering, remember, my memory is foggy and I've only just got it, and only done 5 rounds with one defense combo.

Honestly though, I want to review the testing properly before I actually make up my mind, seeing as I'm just playing, not testing.

EDIT: Hm, well, I played with it (MF Phantom Orion CH145RF) against MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH220CS, and it didn't quite cut it, not to the extent of Variares. Think it's generally more lightning-range than variares range.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

@th!nk CH120 is not the track to use with phantomRF, try AD145, it does much better, also DF145, UW145(def. mode)

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The First thing every blader should buy is MF and MF2... Metal Faces are necessary people!! Know them, Live them, LOVE them, find them on eBay if you have to, just get them!!!

Thanks, totally blanked, ahah

I honestly just used ch120 because I had it there. I'll see how I feel when I see how that and variares+r145 goes.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

It's worth noting I'm not getting 100% against MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS with anything, despite the reputation of Variares. That said, I'm also struggling to find a 20-round set where it does. That said, it's quite possible I could be rusty.

Did play around with phantom before my L/R handle broke off (I have a sonokong handle around somewhere, and stuff. Eh).
Both AD145 and UW145, the two tracks I tried, were stronger offensively than CH120, versus Basalt BD145CS, but that said I still didn't get consistent KO's (could be my launch or whatever). Also, unlike CH120, AD145 was basically unable to OS it. UW145 OS'd sometimes but not consistently. I will do some formal tests once I fix my launcher (and work on my launch).

I'm undecided on whether it should be Tier 1 or 2. It's very close.

What I do think we need is more testing (and I guess opinions) from people who have tried it.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Has anyone realized no one tested tornado for attack? I'm pretty sure tornado wasn't on the list.

Has anyone realized no one tested tornado for attack? I'm pretty sure tornado wasn't on the list.

Tornado has been tested, and it's garbage. It has a unique function in Tornado Attack stadia, but those are not legal for MFB tournament use, so it's irrelevant.

Please know what you're talking about before saying things.

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Some manner of Octopus.

Yes. Tornado metal wheel is not good in any stadiums, not even in Tornado stadium. Although, a successful combination for Tornado stadium weighs heavily on the bottom's choice as much as the metal wheel, more so than in a regular attack stadium.

It's worth noting I'm not getting 100% against MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS with anything, despite the reputation of Variares. That said, I'm also struggling to find a 20-round set where it does. That said, it's quite possible I could be rusty.

Did play around with phantom before my L/R handle broke off (I have a sonokong handle around somewhere, and stuff. Eh).
Both AD145 and UW145, the two tracks I tried, were stronger offensively than CH120, versus Basalt BD145CS, but that said I still didn't get consistent KO's (could be my launch or whatever). Also, unlike CH120, AD145 was basically unable to OS it. UW145 OS'd sometimes but not consistently. I will do some formal tests once I fix my launcher (and work on my launch).

I'm undecided on whether it should be Tier 1 or 2. It's very close.

What I do think we need is more testing (and I guess opinions) from people who have tried it.

Well VariAres is defiantly the best choice for attack and for me blitz gets about 80% and phantom gets 70% I think bottom of tier 1 as it doesn't have as much pure smash but it has a lot of consistency where all its attacks have the same amount of impact as the next , and you can also just OS some combos with it.