World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade Customizations Metal Fight Limited Customizations

MF(-H) Scythe Pegasis II CH120RF

Jan. 06, 2014  3:49 PM
 
::MF(-H) Scythe Pegasis II CH120RF::


Note: This thread refers to Hasbro's Metal Fury Scythe, as opposed to the 4D one which is banned in Limited Format, which this thread is for. I figure this is common sense but some people apparently haven't quite caught on yet so I'll just put this here for them.

So I got my Metal Fury Scythe today and this was one of the first things I tried, I had reasonably high expectations for it, but figured Libra would probably edge it out overall as I hadn't heard much about Scythe having any serious Attack ability. My initial trials more than exceeded my expectations, throwing defense around and then outspinning what is arguably the format's top Defense combo, MF-H Bakushin Leone 90RSF (also making it scrape itself out once).
Played around some more, played with part variations and got to testing. Have you guys ever tested something you thought was broken only to watch on in horror as it tore through things you actually thought would still beat it? Well after this, I sure do.

What I'm saying is this thing is ridiculously broken. It's not *quite* at Basalt's level but it's definitely stronger than anything I've tried with Hell IMO (if only because scythe's attack and defense are more balanced vs Hell which isn't quite so good defensively). Scythe isn't as heavy as either of them however at 33.7g, it's still one of the Heaviest wheels in Limited, and unlike Libra it has the distribution to use it to ridiculous effect.

As for what to classify it as, personally I'd just say "ridiculously broken", while its setup resembles Anti-Attack (and indeed this is probably the closest classification) it trades off some of the performance against attack for a significant amount of stamina. Could put it under balance, I guess, but yeah.

At least, that's what my tests show. I'd really appreciate everyone who can do so testing this, as I'd like to find out if I'm just getting particularly lucky or whatever, seeing as Ingulit seemed highly skeptical when I was raving at him about it.


Part Choice: (Click to View)
Launch/CH120 Height Guide: (Click to View)
Likely/Possible Counters: (Click to View)

TESTING


Note: The L/R String Launcher I'm using for launching Scythe has lost string length due to fraying over time, and as such is only slightly more powerful than an LL2. Worth keeping that in mind as you look through these, I think.

Scythe is slightly worn, only used it today but it does wear fast though I don't see this having that big an effect on it, its main contact points are slopes and it's hard to do much to those (the side on contact points might wear a bit but they're not super important).

vs MF-H Earth Aquario GB145RSF
120 Height, Sliding Shot. RSF Worn, as it's capable of OSing while being harder to KO (Fresher RSF are easier to KO)
Standard Testing Conditions – Any bad launches etc redone, so if you include them it'll probs get a bit lower, but it's still hardly a challenge.
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Earth: 5/20 = 25% (1KO, 4OS)
Scythe: 15/20 = 75% (All KO)

The RSF was a bit more aggro here than it was later and this is slightly higher than I thought Scythe would be able to get, so I might give it another shot tomorrow just to be sure, though really that's probably me being paranoid.

vs MF-H Bakushin Leone 90RSF
Standard Testing Conditions. RSF Near Mint/Slightly Used, 120 height, sliding shot, gonna try to KO it but as we'll see that's not actually necessary
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Bakushin: 0/10 = 0%
Scythe: 10/10 = 100% (2KO, 8OS)

Stopped after 10 rounds because this was absolutely no contest. Bakushin's only hope is to get a chance KO and Scythe is heavier and larger, thus a little more likely to find the wall.
Either way, it was this matchup that set alarm bells off for me. Scythe has a bevelled lower edge so it can kinda force smash Bakushin to make it scrape or generally wear away at its stamina, or just straight up KO it.

vs MF-H Gravity Perseus (ATK, Counter) R145R2F (Left Spin)
R2F worn but moves fast in left - used because I like the direction tips in the opposite direction, find it works well. Launches alternated, Gravity launched first R1.
Both beys Straight shot, tends to be the best option in RF vs RF stuff. 120 Height.
Standard Testing Conditions, however worth noting that Gravity's launcher has a longer string and thus launches a little more powerfully. This was unavoidable.
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Gravity: 9/20 = 45% (All KO)
Scythe: 11/20 = 55% (9KO, 2OS)

An MF-H should improve scythe's results slightly, in a tournament situation I'd generally prefer to be using Scythe, but RF vs RF is like this anyhow and 55% is a lot better than most things manage against this Gravity combo (pretty sure it's the best attack combo in limited).


vs Earth Aquario 85D
120 Height, more banking than usual, launch HARD because this isn't an easy matchup.
Standard Testing Conditions
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Earth: 3/10 = 30% (all OS)
Scythe: 7/10 = 70% (All KO)
Stopped here after giving 145 height another shot and finding it much easier to use (much more forgiving if you don't nail the launch).

vs Earth Aquario 85D @145
145 Height, more banking than usual, launch HARD because this sill isn't an easy matchup despite what you might think.
Standard Testing Conditions
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Earth: 4/20 = 20% (All OS)
Scythe: 16/20 = 80% (All KO)

Was tempted to stop the carnage after 10 rounds but Ingulit raised this as a potential counter and I initially had some trouble with it (I've had caffeine now haha).

vs MF-H Beat Lynx 90LRF
Standard Testing Conditions, 145 Height (seems to put you out of Beat's ideal range. I don't really like Beat much). Scythe is tornado stalled, aim is to get there before beat does as you move at a similar speed or slightly faster depending on the state of its tip and whether it uses RF or a faster Directional Rubber Flat, and then try to slip round from behind and KO it, or at least go fast enough avoid it doing the same to you. Both launched with generally straight shots.
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Beat: 3/10 = 30% (All KO)
Scythe: 7/10 = 70% (2KO, 5OS)

I actually expected Beat to win this as it does wreck Scythe if Scythe uses 120, but it seems to struggle to hit 145 hard (I'm not a big fan of Beat tbh, it's mostly round walls which hurts consistency).
I only realise now I didn't go back to this to do the full 20 rounds because I was worried about my RF getting too worn, so I moved onto more defensive opponents. I'll do another 10 tomorrow.

vs MF-H Earth Aquario 230RSF
Worn RSF, 145 Height.
Standard Testing Conditions
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Earth: 1/20 = 5% (1 OS)
Scythe: 19/20 = 95% (16KO, 3OS)
This was better than I expected but I didn't use Pegasis II much in pre-testing against it I guess and when I did Scythe did really well. This RSF was able to OS Scythe in pre-testing, maybe I was using Cancer instead of Aquario on Earth then, but a fresher one would likely only get you KO'd more often and it's not a huge difference anyway, not worth me re-testing any time soon.

vs MF-H Libra CH120RF
Standard Testing Conditions, Alternating launches with libra launching first R1. RF's are about the same state really.
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Libra: 1/10 = 10% (1 OS)
Scythe: 9/10 = 90% (3KO, 6OS)
Libra managed an OS somehow but there was seriously no point in continuing after 10 rounds, it couldn't KO scythe and Scythe outspins it very reliably. Maybe if it had a faster RF than Scythe did or its user had a stronger launch it might but yeah, at least in testing Scythe has a clear advantage.

Libra 85RF might be able to OS it if you have a stronger launch, you might get a KO but scythe might KO you back sooooo.

I was playing around with MF-H Earth 85CS/RSF when my launcher disassembled internally. Got a new string today and I find that particular older enclosure doesn't fray strings much but as its string has lost length over time (I think it came from another launcher and it definitely frayed previously), I'm going to take the opportunity to transplant the new, longer string and lube up the inside to prevent future fraying and hopefully make a launcher that I won't break in a couple of hours of heavy use, so I'm done for the night. More tomorrow.

Other Members' Tests
None yet!

TO DO LIST:
Last 10 rounds against MF-H Beat Lynx 90LRF
VS MF-H Earth Aquario 85RSF and CS
VS Libra 85D/MF-H+CS
Vs Libra R145RSF (Libra GB145 is less of a threat than earth because of its underside, maybe R145 will help???)
VS MF-H Libra 230CS
VS Gravity Perseus (Stamina) B:D and maybe MLD 100EWD
VS Lightning 90/CH120RF (Maybe Gravity too)
Tidy up the formatting etc as this looks awful but I'm tired and hungry right now so later/tomorrow.
Also may not test all this stuff, if something looks hopeless in pre-testing I'll probably skip it unless it's something I feel is worth demonstrating as a warning to the format/Ingulit's ideas for counters/notions that this isn't hilariously broken.

Stuff I can't test that needs testing:
Vs MF-H Scythe ___ GB145RSF (go for 120 and aim to KO it)
Vs Gravity F230CF/GCF
Jan. 06, 2014  3:57 PM
 
Fake tests (Click to View)
WBO Committee: It was recently brought to our attention that all tests by Crescent in this topic are fabricated. We urge you to forget their results and that someone trustworthy conduct the actual tests for the sake of this metagame.
Jan. 06, 2014  4:03 PM
 
Fake tests (Click to View)
Libra and Basalt's main counters were Libra and Basalt respectively so this isn't too surprising. 35% is a little more than I expected but still pretty safe for the defender. Thanks for the tests (and also for being so nice about the testing equivalent of both grabbing the last of something at a shop at the same time), I'll hold off adding them to the OP til you've posted some more, but yeah.

As for Anti-Attack rising, I'm generally glad to see it happen, it's a lot I guess more intimidating to use than regular defense, so if anti-attack works well, that generally means that we're rewarding the risk people take in using it. That said, personally this combo feels like way too big a reward.
Jan. 06, 2014  5:22 PM
 
Fake tests (Click to View)
WBO Committee: It was recently brought to our attention that all tests by Crescent in this topic are fabricated. We urge you to forget their results and that someone trustworthy conduct the actual tests for the sake of this metagame.
Jan. 06, 2014  5:28 PM
 
You might want to re-check the earth combos you've written there as they're both identical. Tongue_out
Scythe CH120 should be able to OS bakushin with ease, it has a natural advantage against it from its shape or something. I had some trouble against earth 85RSF but didn't get to do formal tests before my launcher broke, and the launch I did that on resulted in a lategame KO by Scythe (I don't think I tried it with just a regular MF on before that). Thanks for testing Smile
Jan. 06, 2014  5:33 PM
 
Haha, sorry about that. The bottom one's meant to be CS. I'll edit that. I thought that to, but I guess not. I use a Earth Hasbro Mold 2 IIRC. Also, my RSF was a little worn and the CS was a little aggro. I'm getting a new mint RSF soon. So I'll redo them. Might get better results, haha.
Jan. 06, 2014  5:37 PM
 
If Earth was scraping out then the RSF could be to blame, otherwise if anything it would've helped.

I don't know if anyone who is active these days still has an intact mold 1 they'd test with, so I generally assume mold 2 anyway, all mine are mold 2 so yeah (though the reinforcement doesn't help *my* earth breakage issues anyway haha).
Jan. 06, 2014  5:53 PM
 
Oh, I do have a Mold 1, but I wanted to keep it NIB. I was collecting it. If you really need, I'll use it. I don't mind.
Jan. 06, 2014  5:55 PM
 
Oh, no, certainly not haha. I really don't think the difference would be particularly significant, and definitely not worth the breakage risk.
Jan. 06, 2014  6:06 PM
 
Fake tests (Click to View)
WBO Committee: It was recently brought to our attention that all tests by Crescent in this topic are fabricated. We urge you to forget their results and that someone trustworthy conduct the actual tests for the sake of this metagame.
Jan. 06, 2014  10:10 PM
 
Try to weak launch Meteo, see how it does.
Jan. 08, 2014  7:52 AM
 
I assume he did that in his tests, I made a note in the OP to do so if tested so I assume so but eh, I honestly doubt meteo is gonna stay in against this.

FWIW, MF-H Libra 85RF does seem to do well against this, able to OS or KO it, though if the Scythe user has a stronger launch or their RF has better stamina Libra could run into trouble from how close it is.

Will do more testing this evening, fixing/frankensteining and lubricating LR launchers took me the whole day yesterday (mostly due to having to disassemble and reassemble each launcher like 3 times because I used too much oil or wasn't happy with the smoothness or there was skipping etc).
Jan. 08, 2014  1:15 PM
 
Fake tests (Click to View)
WBO Committee: It was recently brought to our attention that all tests by Crescent in this topic are fabricated. We urge you to forget their results and that someone trustworthy conduct the actual tests for the sake of this metagame.
Jan. 09, 2014  7:43 PM
 
Thanks for that. If you could repeat the rest of my tests I'd really appreciate it, by the way.
Jan. 09, 2014  8:05 PM
 
Fake tests (Click to View)
WBO Committee: It was recently brought to our attention that all tests by Crescent in this topic are fabricated. We urge you to forget their results and that someone trustworthy conduct the actual tests for the sake of this metagame.
Jan. 11, 2014  2:30 AM
 
I'd just like to say something here...

I did some serious testing with this combo over the last couple days, and I honestly don't see anything ban-worthy about it at all. Seriously, and I am very, very confident that my results are accurate from re-doing them so many times.

I tested this extensively particularly against LTDC/LTSC, and it utterly failed.

Before I began testing, I wanted to make sure my launch was in shape, because the KO rates you guys are getting sounded so completely absurd to me that I wanted to make doubly sure that my launching style didn't skew the results.

I conducted testing with MF-H (actually got my MF-H to screw in!) Flash Orion GB145R2F against MSF-H Revizer Revizer BD145RDF, and I hit 60% easily. I then proceeded to try Gravity Perseus
R145R2F against MF-H Earth Cancer 85RSF, and hit 60% again. My launch seemed like it was in exceptional condition, so I proceeded to test.

I first tried against Stamina. Earth Cancer 85EWD. I got a couple KOs, but I had to launch extremely hard and they came with quite a few self-KOs, and Earth had no trouble OSing. Scythe's smash was very unimpressive.

After that, I went onto MF-H Earth Cancer GB145RSF. I got 1 KO. After that, Earth just won, and won again, and again and again and again...

So, I proceeded to test against LTDC. MF-H Earth Cancer 85RSF (I did several rounds with Scythe using the Metal Face, and several with Earth using it). It totally destroyed Scythe. Scythe couldn't budge it, and Earth OSed by a very comfortable margin every time.

After that, I decided it must've been the parts I was using. So, I took my worst Earth, my worst RSF, and slapped Ares in the thing, which was just about the most horribly distributed CW I could think of to use on Earth. It destroyed its balance and cut its Stamina by a ton. I tried it out. It won against Scythe consistently. I thought that was odd, so I went and tried my other RSF. Still no good. Then I switched the Metal Face. Earth won by even more! Finally, after filtering through as many different levels of ware for each part I could get done, I came up with MF-H Earth Ares 85RSF (with all the worst possible molds of each part that I had), vs. a tornado stalled Scythe Pegasis II CH120RF, using an illegally worn RF with ridiculous Stamina for a rubber Attack bottom. I launched Earth first even, and launched Scythe harder intentionally, and Earth still won it by OS! I tried again... it looked like Earth was gonna win... oh... wait... no!.. It's a tie!

Basically, the best I could possibly get out of the thing was 1 tie against a sorry excuse for a Defense type, with an intentionally screwed-up CW and all the worst parts I had, using an illegal Attack bottom to pack as much Stamina in as possible. It was honestly quite shocking after all the crazy stuff I've hear about it, and it certainly didn't fit with the results here.

I'd also like to point something out. "L"'s test results do not actually confirm th!nks results. If you look closely, it was not actually able to OS LTDC. It was (apparently, though I'm extremely skeptical after watching my best efforts fail before my eyes) able to KO Defense, rather than out-spin.

No offense to "L", but I honestly think that such a high KO rate had to be the product of some sort of subconscious bias, because the best I could do was a 20% KO rate on Earth 85EWD.

I'm not calling anybody a liar or anything, but from my personal experience the results just don't line up. If th!nk has some sort of "super Scythe" that trashes LTDC, LTSC and MTDC, then IMO it stands to reason that it shouldn't be banned on the results of one member (no matter how extremely credible he is). There could've been some crazy variable that we know nothing about, but as it stands now "L", myself, and Ingulit have found this combo incapable of OSing Defense, and Ingulit and I, incapable of KOing it or LTSC consistently.

I just can't wrap my head around this thing being broken, after seeing how terribly it failed against Defense/LTSC. I mean, granted it's definitely a nice combo, but it would take a miracle for me to suggest that it was broken.
Jan. 11, 2014  8:00 AM
 
I've already addressed the fact there seems to be a dichotomy in Scythes where some rock and others don't, we've seen it in stamina and now defense/this monster. If you're going to have the gall to attack " L "s test results and ability to conduct fair, balanced testing, at the least go the full way when taking on mine as well, because otherwise you've still done nothing about the fact that some Scythe wheels are clearly capable of wrecking the entire format.

If you want to call my testing into question, you're welcome to look through my testing history, and my recent testing history, and find where I significantly differ from other people's tests in a way that could affect this. I'm very exacting with my testing procedure, I take great pride in that. If you want a freebie, my stadium isn't in the best state, and has some tape (I forget the exact type, but it holds well, doesn't get scraped off and doesn't absorb any impacts) on one inside wall to cover a crack in one wall and scrunched up newspaper behind it (the newspaper at least is apparently legal, I found it helped return the wall to the same firmness as before the crack). As evidence it is not affecting results, again just look at my other testing - my tests still show results that fit with those of others - you said yourself my tests with chrome wheels the last two days have mirrored your own results closely, and those are a similar skillset to this custom, albeit more demanding against many opponents.

If you think I tested this thing, saw it beating everything, and didn't check to make sure I wasn't going to call for a ban on my best stamina wheel based on an error on my behalf, you underestimate the extent of how cautious I am with my testing - I do not like to make mistakes, especially not in a situation like this.

You're also completely ignoring the fact we've already seen a noticeable difference between the performance of individual Scythe wheels in terms of how they perform against Metal Fury Duo, so this is hardly something unprecedented to the point it is exclusive to me.

OSing LTDC applies only to Bakushin (the wheel that is far and away the best LTDC MW in the format), where the shapes of the wheels come into play - the beveled underside of Scythe has nasty effects on bakushin's turtleshell shape and results in easy OS's for scythe. I didn't test against Earth 85RSF a) because my launcher broke first and b) because while it's not bad, it gets completely wrecked by CH120 Attack Types so it's not exactly a hugely viable custom anyway tbh. Also, from informal testing the stamina matchup is so close that if the scythe user has a stronger launch, I'd wager they'd win reliably. I can spend some time testing that today, but again as it isn't a hugely viable combination compared to bakushin I really do not see the relevance.

So basically, I think your post comes down to not reading two important things: 1. That I'm not claiming every scythe is like this. I do not doubt you and Ingulit are incapable of getting these results from your Scythes. I have, however, seen a lot of testing with Scythe that conflicts with other testing with Scythe, so my guess is that some simply aren't as good as others for some reason - with the weight distribution it has and the effects metal faces have on it, combined with the fact Ingulit's scythe is a little heavier than mine and the fact the matchups you two aren't seeing are ones where my results are coming from Scythe's flywheel effect, I suspect it has something to do with perhaps extra weight near the centre or something (in your case with LTSC it could be because you used an MF-H, try without one, CH120 at 145 height and sliding shoot and see if that changes things maybe?). Of course, seeing as no one has actually provided pictures of their scythes when I requested it to look into this, at least as far as I know, it's only a theory at this point, but based on what I've seen and read it seems like the most obvious answer to me.
The second thing is the misunderstanding that I claimed it outspins all LTDC: It just outspins what is by far the best LTDC defensively, Earth and Libra LTDC don't do poorly against mine at least (you can KO them and the stamina matchup is close enough that I imagine a scythe user with a stronger launch would probably win, but nonetheless they are good options against it), however Earth has issues with 120-height attackers and Libra's topside isn't great defensively, though I haven't used it as an LTDC wheel that much, at least not recently anyway.

EDIT: Not up to testing today, kinda run down and stuff, but I gave it a quick shot. If Earth moves around too much scythe can push it out of the stadium with ease, and the stamina matchup is extremely dicey either way (makes CW choice on earth important, for example cancer seems harder to OS than Aquario). I wouldn't like to face it down with this at a tournament but if I had to I'd definitely not be giving up. I still don't think it's particularly important though, because it's still a pretty niche combo. None of this changes the fact it beats the major combos for every type, (perhaps Gravity F230CF/GCF might be able to dodge it, I don't have an F230 yet, but Gravity looks like it'll be banned come February anyway), the fact the meta will have to shift so dramatically to oppose it is a testament to how broken it is. :\

EDIT2: I do have pictures of my Scythe if anyone who has one and isn't getting these results wants to look at it and see if they can spot differences, but choosing, resizing and uploading them all is annoying so I won't bother if no one is interested.
Jan. 11, 2014  1:33 PM
 
Fake tests (Click to View)
WBO Committee: It was recently brought to our attention that all tests by Crescent in this topic are fabricated. We urge you to forget their results and that someone trustworthy conduct the actual tests for the sake of this metagame.
Jan. 11, 2014  2:27 PM
 
I just found this thread... I've got all the parts for this combo and I will certainly try it out the next chance I'm free. Anyways, busy, so bye now! (Test results will be on this post tomorrow).
Jan. 11, 2014  3:07 PM
 
@th!nk: Chill, it's cool, I wasn't saying your results were messed up. XD

My point was, we have 4 different people here. Two are getting the same results as each other, and the other two are getting the same results as each other. Both you and Ingulit are incredibly reliable sources for testing, so we're at a dead end here. There's something causing the problem besides procedure most likely (like different mold of Scythe, like you said earlier. Uploading pics of it right now). However, we still aren't sure what the problem is yet. It could be the RSF's we're using, it could be the RF's, or it could be both! It could even be the Earth MW's for all we know.

Also, in testing against Duo, Scythe did have varying win rates, but not nearly this drastic, and Stamina matches like that are usually different for every person just because of the wear of their Bottoms, the differing performance of their Clear Wheels, and the luck factor as well.

Plus, as for testing against Duo, Duo could very well be the problem if we're talking about issues with different Metal Wheels. If you look closely in the Scythe discussion thread, Ingulit, "L" and I all posted results against Earth that were almost exactly identical. Scythe's weird numbers came up while testing against Duo, not against other wheels. Plus, what that tells us, is that, in terms of Stamina, my Scythe, Ingulit's Scythe, and "L"'s Scythe all perform equally. That means that "L"'s Scythe shouldn't have been able to do any better than ours, but it did. However, it didn't OS, it KO'ed which is a much different story, since it involves skill, level of wear, and tons of other different variables.

I tried removing the Metal face, and trying it at both heights, and it still didn't work. I just think it's completely crazy for this thing to be able to hit a 65% KO rate on RSF LTDC. I mean, come on, it's Scythe! I'm sure Bakushin loses to it for you guys, but, though Bakushin does probably have the best defensive qualities in the format, it won't necessarily be the most used. It is quite an uncommon part. Most people are just going to be using Earth.

I just think we should look into it for a little longer. I know how it is to conduct extremely careful testing, and then have it completely shut down by the rest of the community. It ain't fun, but it happens. I didn't want to slam anyone. XD Just wanted to post about my experience.

Got Scythe pictures here:
Hope that helps clear things up a bit.

BTW, what's the mold number on the inside of your Scythe? Mine says "AA3." Perhaps you and "L" have something different? I wonder what Ingulit has... having 3 different performing molds would be a pain. Confused
Jan. 11, 2014  3:15 PM
 
Ahh, I might of made a problem here. I have 3: "AA1" "AA2" and "AA3". Now, I'm lucky I got three molds. I just grabed any Scythe for testing without knowing they was mold differents.
Jan. 11, 2014  3:29 PM
 
*Facepalm*
Jan. 11, 2014  5:19 PM
 
Those mold numbers generally don't mean anything at all (well, sometimes they're useful for differentiating what brand a part is with position or whatever but yeah), mine is AA2, but yeah I can't see any differences (then again, differences can be slight, eg my SonoKong Rock Giraffe Rock, like all of the MFB: Explosion wheels I have from them, is slimmed down from the takara version (I haven't weighed them yet, but there's a difference in edge thickness)).

L, if you have three, would you be able to test each against one LTSC perhaps (Earth ___ 85D/WD/EWD)? (I will say in advance if one of them sucks AA# won't be the way to tell but yeah).

As for tip condition, I included it in each match, and the RF I used on Scythe was a little past prime but still fast. Scythe already had a bit of slope wear before the Earth GB145RSF tests, just retested with the same parts (RF is now slower/less aggressive and a new RSF a little less worn than the last one, and scythes slopes pretty heavily worn) and it still KOs it pretty easy. RF condition could play a part and keep in mind again I'm using a Metal Face instead of an MF-H because it does seem to have a noticeable effect - if you have time, give it a shot without a metal face on Scythe at all and see how it does, seeing as the power comes mostly from its flywheel effect so at least against lighter/less aggressive opponents (haven't tried it vs Libra Defense without a metal face) the metal face isn't doing much good (probably, anyway, that's just what I observed in informal testing). Thanks for finally making my obsessive noting down or memorization of tiny details about my testing useful for once Grin
Jan. 11, 2014  5:27 PM
 
I've tried it without a Metal Face. I've tried it in just about every way I could possibly imagine, and it still ain't working. Unhappy

Well, I think my overall opinion has been stated. If your results are consistent with other people's in the future, and this is something that's truly broken without results being skewed by variables, then I could support its ban. As for now, thought, I personally oppose it based on my experienced.

So yah. I'm gonna vote "No" and leave it at that. Smile
Jan. 11, 2014  6:17 PM
 
Fake tests (Click to View)
WBO Committee: It was recently brought to our attention that all tests by Crescent in this topic are fabricated. We urge you to forget their results and that someone trustworthy conduct the actual tests for the sake of this metagame.
Page 1
Next