Agh, guys just stop. Arguments are annoying to everyone. Rules clarifications to PMs, and classification of the combo here. It is definitely anti-attack from the results, but even from what I tested with my combo anti-attack can do decently against stamina.

If you have problems, don't keep it here. I would like an answer for my question, preferably from the thread starter since he is posting this combo. Is it lack of options, or...?

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I can do testing! Any requests? I also believe that using BD145, H145 or R145 is more effective for Anti-Attack than WA130 on this combo.

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Currently #15 in the World! :E

i used Wa130 while i was testing and found that this was pretty good

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Zer0 try using s130 for more weight and more balance.

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Tournament stuff-

-1st-Big Apple Bey Brawl (didn't count)
-1st-Haunted City Bey Clash (didn't count)
-2nd-The Climactic DJ Battle! Deikailo vs. Arupaeo!
-2nd- GBT2: New York Qualifier
-3rd-Battle of the Boroughs 2
-3rd-STAGE FRIGHT
-3rd-The City's Divine Bloody Battles

The 130 height itself is a great track height, but why WA130 over S130? I was under the impression that WA130 had no competative use?

I can do testing! Any requests? I also believe that using BD145, H145 or R145 is more effective for Anti-Attack than WA130 on this combo.

Im no expert, but first, BD145 is used on lightning. And second, can you test Zer0's Diablo vs Basalt Horogium R145RF? I would love to hear about results for anti-attack vs anti-attack!

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My Youtube Channel :unsmith:

It is used on a Lightning combo, yes, but BD145 is not limited to Lighting L-Drago. I see that as the only thing your sentence could possibly be implying, since you do not continue it. Anti-Attack combos are actually greatly helped by BD145 in particular.
And your test request would really prove nothing for the combo, just entertainment reasons, and that's not what this thread is for. Comparative tests would be good I guess, but we already know that Diablo is a better Anti-Attack wheel, so it would sort of be a waste, yet I'd still like comparative tests...I'm a nooblet like that.

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'joseph317'
Zer0 try using s130 for more weight and more balance

Okay i will do some tests for that

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ok good see if it turns out a little better.

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Tournament stuff-

-1st-Big Apple Bey Brawl (didn't count)
-1st-Haunted City Bey Clash (didn't count)
-2nd-The Climactic DJ Battle! Deikailo vs. Arupaeo!
-2nd- GBT2: New York Qualifier
-3rd-Battle of the Boroughs 2
-3rd-STAGE FRIGHT
-3rd-The City's Divine Bloody Battles

I'm... not sure I understand the point of this combo. It seems as though S130 and MF-H/MF would work better in all situations... this just seems like sticking weird parts on a known success.

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Some manner of Octopus.

Eh, it seems more like he didn't have S130, there's no big performance difference between it and WA130 anyway. That said, I'd like to see more independent tests.

Also, Duo TH170CS isn't a defense combination, it's a balance combination. Why? Because it is easily beaten by attack.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Well the combination MF-F Diablo nemesis WA130 RF seems to be good. But can anyone tell me what an anti-attack type is? The combo seems to be an attack type.

An anti-attack type is a counter to normal attack types like MF/MF-H Variares R145 RF. Anti-attack types normally have a MW that is heavy and is normally used in defense customs, like Diablo or something (Correct me, if i'm wrong). Although sometimes they can be used against normal defense types.

EDIT: Sorry, Dan. Edited appropriately.

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Currently #15 in the World! :E

Anti-Attack should really be with low-recoil wheels..

I mean this idea of recoil/counter attack is something I find amazingly ineffective and actually new. Wheels like Earth were used for "anti-meta" (Th!nk has efficiently converted you all) and back then, it was my understanding that you would use Wheels out of their 'natural' habitat. (Earth for Attack which counters attack, Attack for Stamina which could counter Stamina, Stamina for Defense which probably just blows LOL)

>Go for anti-attack custom
>>"No, wait, lets also try and make it good against Defense which inherently takes away its proficiency against attack (original point of combo is to kill attack, remember?)
>>>You end up just getting a regular attack blade which wins because it is heavier, usually.

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

The aim is to make it good against attack by capitalising on Diablo's unique properties, which allow it to use opponents recoil to KO them, as well as being a decent attack type itself, though the latter is used to counter stamina types, not defense types, which provides a significantly broader range of beatable opponents.

But hey, you may well be right, this is all theoretical. Perhaps you could provide some tests to back up your low-recoil anti-attack idea? Even if your flash isn't quite performing as well as it was, do comparatives against a well known defense combo, and who knows, we could be adding RF to the defense list soon!

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Wait.. i'm confused. So what is normally used in anti-attack, high recoil wheels or low recoil wheels?

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Currently #15 in the World! :E

Th!nk: so then Anti-Attack wouldn't be right, then? :V Why not just Heavy Attack..

I'll get some tests but damn I thought you already knew that low recoil Wheels were used.

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

Uh the only other combos similar have used Basalt though so i'm not too sure where you're getting low recoil from. Also considering Diablo has attack use this is just a normal attack combo but it would depend on what you're facing since if you're facing it against defence then it's not anti attack and if you're facing it against attack then it is.

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Low recoil works better?

We've had stuff in the past: Libra CH120RF (meh, but still), Virgo CH120RF, Earth CH120RF.. A lot CH120.
That is pretty much just regular attack.. If you're going to have pure anti-attack you wouldn't use it against Defense.

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

I don't think it does do better. I know that but with Diablo it's not really anti attack it's just attack like I was saying.

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If you're saying it 'transforms into anti attack when playing against an attacker' simply because it can win consistently over others (by weight, sheer smash or whatever) then something like Flash would be "Anti-Attack" too.

Well, it is Anti-Attack when it is Anti-Attack. When it isn't Anti-Attack it is just Attack unless you're playing against Attack where it then becomes Anti-Attack again. :V

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

Okay but there's no difference between combos when they're attack or anti attack. I realize it's quite stupid but w/e.

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Well, from my knowledge, Anti-Attack combos were supposed to be moving 'tanks', comprising of heavy wheels (usually used for the purpose of Defense) for the purpose of countering attackers more efficiently by combining the properties of weight, and momentum.
IMO, having Earth anti-attack combos earlier was merely a coincidence, as it was the heaviest available wheel back then (Libra was banned). Recoil probably has nothing to do with this stuff I guess. The momentum of the bey, and also the heavy weight would easily handle all the recoil suffered, making recoil an almost negligible issue, IMO.
Yes, if we may prove that Defense wheels of almost equal weight, and of almost equal caliber but differing amounts of recoil suffered tend to provide differing results for anti-attack, then I have nothing to say.
Probably Death and Basalt would fulfill the requirement, no?
Getting to using a high recoil Diablo for Defense purposes is only due to its weight. We do use pure Defense combos with Diablo, but from what I have seen, Diablo anti-attack has been the most effective of all the Diablo combos we have as of today (correct me if I am wrong, and if I am wrong, read no further. ).

Read if you found the remaining part of my post sensible enough...

Spoiler (Click to View)

There are three main reasons for this from how I see it-
1. Diablo's exceptional weight.
2. The speed offered to Diablo by the Attack bottom used on it, severely increasing its Momentum.
3. Diablo's ferocious Attack power.

Here, I do not see Recoil playing a major role, as long as the Attacker being used against it is not low on recoil, and is also quite heavy. While VariAres would easily fall to Diablo(thanks to an almost 10g weight difference, and the relatively high recoil), Flash won't (the weight difference is smaller in comparison, and also Flash is low on recoil).
We were looking to use a Duo anti-attack combo against the currently dominating Flash Attack. This is probably where recoil counts. Two low recoil wheels, both on Attack bottoms, and probably the pure Attacker being slightly heavier than the anti-attack combo. Here, the anti-attack combo needs to be low on recoil, so that it can avoid KOs.

And now for the main point- Diablo anti-attack certainly is an Attack combo in disguise. The only reason which earns it the anti-attack title, is because it is highly effective against Attackers. Not to mention that it fulfills almost every requirement for an anti-attack combo. So, I actually think what Ultra said is true... Diablo Attack is Anti-Attack only against Attackers.
I do not mean to oppose or object anyone here, as I am probably the most inexperienced of the lot.
I am just sharing my point of view.

Sooo, yeah. This is the vague idea I have about anti-attack, which I tried to share, and I know that it might not have made any sense to most of you.

Coming back to this combo now- As many said, it seems to be a combo created by combining Random Parts, due to lack of availability of considerably better parts.
Sooo, I really didn't like this combo much.

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Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

am I the only one who doesn't see this 'ferocious attack power'? Diablo is a piece of carp with me.

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

Uh, I don't know... I haven't even owned one yet, and I am only saying what I have read in the Forum discussions, haha!

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Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!