Libra Re-instatement Discussion
In the recent tourney at Jusco, someone was using a Libra wheel...
However it wasn't an official TT tournament.
Confirming with The LVJ, it seems there were no competitive conbos...
However it wasn't an official TT tournament.
Confirming with The LVJ, it seems there were no competitive conbos...
![[Image: siggy3small.jpg]](https://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9283/siggy3small.jpg)
(Aug. 16, 2010 2:28 AM)Bey Brad Wrote: The fact that Libra's existence necessitates "Libra-killers" is the exact reason it was banned in the first place.
Focusing on the term 'Libra killer' really is just semantics though. Someone may have been quoting it colloquially or someone really may have meant it. I used it in the sense that Pegasis can dominate it, but that's not to say something else won't beat it.
I hope I worded that right :\
![[Image: pakistandonationcopy.jpg]](https://a.imageshack.us/img841/8365/pakistandonationcopy.jpg)
But didnt MF peg 145RF have a lower win rate agaisnt earth based deffence combos?
wouldnt that show the the combo is made basicly to counter libra more so?
wouldnt that show the the combo is made basicly to counter libra more so?
![[Image: Raykon-Flash-Signature.gif]](https://dmsss.webs.com/Raykon-Flash-Signature.gif)
No, it just shows how strong Pegasis is and how Earth and Libra can be used for different purposes. The term 'Libra killer' only has meaning if you interpret it to have meaning.
Haha, no way did I mean it was purely designed to counter Libra. It just happens to have an excellent win rate because of Libra's shape.
Libra has way more recoil than rock.
Really, what I have to say is what's wrong with the current metagame honestly? I think you guys are missing the fact that the current metagame is balanced as it is. Stamina does not dominate, attack doesn't dominate and defense doesn't either. Mc Frown says that the defense metagame is lacking yet he has never been to a tournament where defense is actually one of your safest bets. Valentin got 3rd with only a defense combo and Kool-Kid got second with mostly a defense combo same with his third at HPT2 and Stamina is easily beaten by attack which kool-kid showed in BoG. If there's nothing wrong with the current metagame why change it?
Because it's lame to have a part banned for no reason when it's not broken and could actually help the metagame.
Libra's no better than Earth, really, and as such it doesn't need to be banned.
Might as well ban Storm : /
Libra's no better than Earth, really, and as such it doesn't need to be banned.
Might as well ban Storm : /
(Aug. 16, 2010 5:27 AM)Mc Frown Wrote:(Aug. 16, 2010 5:26 AM)The LVJ Wrote: The Japanese scene is nothing like ours. Theirs is full of random combos and matches conducted in stadiums we deem illegal.
Agree.
Age limit furthers it's illegitimacy.
Have you been to a lot of japanese tournaments? I mean. I'm sure that there are communities in Canada or the US that have tournaments, but aren't really good at beyblade. There has to be a competitive scene somewhere in Japan. Before the WBO, there was a website run by a japanese man that taught a lot of people about competitive play.
Also, from what I recall, in Japan, parents are really active in their kids hobbies. They often used to build the kid's combos and even help them with complicated things like tuning bearings. So while I do see that an age limit is a detriment, I don't think it makes the whole japanese scene illegitimate.
(Aug. 17, 2010 12:54 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: Because it's lame to have a part banned for no reason when it's not broken and could actually help the metagame.
I agree with this. I think that the only reason to ban a part is because it breaks the game. If a restricted Libra wouldn't break the game then I don't think it should be banned.
![[Image: IkkiSignature.jpg]](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/Gigamew/IkkiSignature.jpg)
(Aug. 17, 2010 5:23 AM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: Have you been to a lot of japanese tournaments? I mean. I'm sure that there are communities in Canada or the US that have tournaments, but aren't really good at beyblade. There has to be a competitive scene somewhere in Japan. Before the WBO, there was a website run by a japanese man that taught a lot of people about competitive play.I have seen many videos of Japanese tournaments and scans of winning combos on Kai-V's site. Honestly, as far as I'm aware, they barely have a metagame. It's primarily a bunch of kids playing together, having fun, and winning prizes.
Also, from what I recall, in Japan, parents are really active in their kids hobbies. They often used to build the kid's combos and even help them with complicated things like tuning bearings. So while I do see that an age limit is a detriment, I don't think it makes the whole japanese scene illegitimate.
The stadiums and conditions used at those tournaments make the playing field extremely inconsistent and entirely luck based.
(Aug. 13, 2010 2:38 PM)megablader2 Wrote: Fyuuor you should do testing for Storm 100RF and Ray 100RF. Also testing all the attack combos against Earth (mold 2) C145/R145/GB145 WB would be good so then we can compare the results.Alright just did some battles, the win rates with storm and ray are very, very average. To be honest I never really liked using storm as an attack wheel, I don’t mind using ray though I’ve always preferred to use lightning for attack based combos.
Ray Unicorno 100RF VS Earth Giraffe GB145WB
10 - 10: Ray’s win rate 50%
Ray Unicorno 100RF VS Earth Giraffe C145WB
13 - 7: Ray’s win rate 65%
Storm Pegasus 100RF VS Earth Giraffe GB145WB
11 - 9: Storm’s win rate 55%
Storm Pegasus 100RF VS Earth Giraffe C145WB
11 - 9: Storm’s win rate 55%
Lightning L Drago (Upper Mode) 100RF VS Earth Giraffe GB145
13 - 7: Lightning’s win rate 65%
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![[Image: goldy.jpg]](https://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2128/goldy.jpg)
Do we have any results for the same attack combos vs libra for the wheel? Not just you, anyone so we can compare them to those ones you just did. Also thanks for the results.
Quote:I have seen many videos of Japanese tournaments and scans of winning combos on Kai-V's site. Honestly, as far as I'm aware, they barely have a metagame. It's primarily a bunch of kids playing together, having fun, and winning prizes.
The stadiums and conditions used at those tournaments make the playing field extremely inconsistent and entirely luck based.
So.. It's pretty much a bunch of kids playing beyblade, doing what beyblade was designed to do?
I was a proper member back in the day before Metal Fusion or whatever came out. I had well over 50 plastics, and a tonne of HMS to go along with it. Hell, I've known Kai-V and Brad much longer than they realise, as neither will have a single clue who I am.
It's attitudes like the ones I've seen on this board that totally ruins games and fads of today. Beyblade back then, while competitive, was much MUCH more fun. People would battle with random combos, people would battle 'illegally' in makeshift stadiums. People were in the mindset that yes, there are some combos better than others, yes, there are certain ways to help launch a beyblade, each part had a name and a function, but people also seemed to realise that most of the game was based purely on luck. One time, I entered the UK championships with a trygle for crying out loud! And I still did no worse than most of the other kids there.
People, kids, teenagers, whoever plays it nowadays, are taking to it like it's the most serious thing in the world. Banning a part because it's "game breaking", and yet in the old days, Bearing Tuning was encouraged, and seen as elite, when it was fully 'illegal'. It's a GAME, you're kids, go out and have fun. Play with beyblades, have fun with them. Stop acting like they're not a kids game, and that there is some secret way to win or something. And if those kids in the Japanese tournaments are like that, good on them, they've truely accepted the spirit of playing a game.
I'm sure people realise the difference between playing for S&Gs, but there is also a competitive aspect for those who want to play in tournaments. Libra was originally banned because it was dominating at the time, and the aim of the game was to beat Libra and nothing else. Hence, banning Libra opened up the metagame so it'd be more fun.
Football's a game :\
Football's a game :\
Football is just as ridiculous, but unfortunately there's very, VERY little way to change football..
With the old game, with Bearing Tuning, everyone was making Zombies etc, the aim of the game there quickly became "beat the zombie", and if I recall, not too long after zombies became illegal to use, the game died out of fashion.. It was actaully fun seeing who could come up with the strongest/heaviest/bulkiest combo, who could beat zombies and all that.
Of course those that USED zombies were generally frowned upon, but even if they weren't used, people still actually had FUN playing the game, yes playing to win, but still enjoying it, and not seeing it as a technical wonder of plastic and metal. It was much simpler before, and now it just seems to be a game where someone is told off for trying to create a random combo. "That part is useless, those parts don't go together, i don't imagine that working well, why'd you do that" etc. Before it was "That's different, but fun." There was no 'extensive testing' done on beyblades, because to be totally frank, it's a bit sad..
EDIT: Yes I'm sure people realise the difference between S&Gs and playing competitively, but the line between the two used to be blurred.People could play for S&Gs and could still play competitively. Now it's all testing this and illegality that etc. Built a top, pull the ripcord, watch it spin..
With the old game, with Bearing Tuning, everyone was making Zombies etc, the aim of the game there quickly became "beat the zombie", and if I recall, not too long after zombies became illegal to use, the game died out of fashion.. It was actaully fun seeing who could come up with the strongest/heaviest/bulkiest combo, who could beat zombies and all that.
Of course those that USED zombies were generally frowned upon, but even if they weren't used, people still actually had FUN playing the game, yes playing to win, but still enjoying it, and not seeing it as a technical wonder of plastic and metal. It was much simpler before, and now it just seems to be a game where someone is told off for trying to create a random combo. "That part is useless, those parts don't go together, i don't imagine that working well, why'd you do that" etc. Before it was "That's different, but fun." There was no 'extensive testing' done on beyblades, because to be totally frank, it's a bit sad..
EDIT: Yes I'm sure people realise the difference between S&Gs and playing competitively, but the line between the two used to be blurred.People could play for S&Gs and could still play competitively. Now it's all testing this and illegality that etc. Built a top, pull the ripcord, watch it spin..
People still have fun playing now. I also wouldn't say it was much simpler before, since there were zombies and spin stealers being used, as well as competitive customs which did have testing done on them. People still say something equivalent to 'that's different, but fun', like with M145 or Q or any other parts with gimmicks.
Anywho, I think you'd be better off making a separate topic if you want to get more/better responses, though I do see where you're coming from.
Anywho, I think you'd be better off making a separate topic if you want to get more/better responses, though I do see where you're coming from.
Nah I just came on to look at posts for nostalgic reasons, and when I saw the fact that kids were playing it for fun and laughs and prizes was being "looked down" upon, then I had to comment.
Anyway, back to your testing people, have fun.
Anyway, back to your testing people, have fun.
We're a competitive community; get over it.
I get that one a lot.
And like LVJ said, we weren't looking down on them, it's no way to guage Libra's current effectivness.
And like LVJ said, we weren't looking down on them, it's no way to guage Libra's current effectivness.
So who cares if Libra is that good? Your point? TT didn't make a mistake. It was clearly on purpose seeing as how there was a first AND second mold of Libra. Not only that, it was made as a booster, a prize, and a beyblade in a 3-pack. Complaining over a part that was meant to be played with is ridiculous. I dont even use Libra like that anymore because there are so many ways to beat it. What happens if they release Libra again as a legend series beyblade? Or a Hybrid wheel beyblade that essentially has the same shape of Libra and the weight is the same when the clear wheel is added? Will that be banned too? I think this was simply banned because people kept crying about losing to Libras when the game is about having fun. Keeping this banned will make the game boring. As you can see on the Competitive Combo list, there isn't even 10 combos yet there are combos that are great but arent "reliable or consistent" enough to win. NOTHING there has a 100% win rate. Why? Because people are stuck on the same ones that arent even that great anymore. Flame Bull 100SF can beat EVERY stamina combo on that list and the Defenders. With a metal face, it can probably outlast and defeat all the attackers on that list. It's a balance combo. Will Flame get banned now too? Banning Libra is just foolish. I agree with everything Jaysus said. People are forgetting the fun in beyblade and trying to make it something else that it wasn't intended to be.
(Aug. 18, 2010 1:16 AM)Daegor42 Wrote:(Aug. 18, 2010 1:13 AM)Ozzy Wrote: Flame Bull 100SF can beat EVERY stamina combo on that list and the Defenders. With a metal face, it can probably outlast and defeat all the attackers on that list.
Eywot?
I don't remember seeing this...
lol that's what I thought when I read it. It probably stems from the Flame 90CS thread...
My bad, I thought Ozzy meant Flame 100FS not 100SF... ignore ^