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[LTD] Scythe (Metal Fury) Discussion

Jan. 01, 2014  2:22 AM
 
Well, I don't have 100 rounds of Scythe testing (against the same combo, that is), but for what it's worth, I saw Scythe 145SD take down Duo AD145WD at a tournament last weekend. Only saw it happen once, though.

EDIT: Oh my gosh, I forgot to tell everyone happy New Year!

Happy New year everybody!!! Grin
Jan. 01, 2014  9:53 PM
 
(Dec. 29, 2013  10:30 PM)Galaxy Blade Wrote: Is anyone out there up to testing Scythe VS Duo? If only we had one more person to do tests we could see what's more better.


I want i will dow skythe bull 230D vs Duo bull 230D
Jan. 06, 2014  8:22 AM
 
MF-H Scythe Cancer CH120RF is broken as anything. It can KO Earth GB145RSF and any attack type it faces, OS MF-H Bakushin Leone 90RSF and Stamina, well, what do you expect? LTSC actually seem like the hardest thing to handle (I'd still happily face them down with it but yeah), so maybe LTDC with CS would work but that's pretty niche.

Will get testing up tonight or tomorrow, as a point of priority.

EDIT: MF-H Earth 85RSF can OS it as long as it has at least as good a CW for stamina (eg Earth Aquario gets outspun by Scythe Cancer but Earth Cancer doesn't) or something like that, so that's something. LTAC are the other main counter. Neither are particularly useful tho, Earth 85RSF struggles against CH120 attack and LTAC are destroyed by 230 generally. Plus what I've seen from Scythe on defense (as in it does what RS would do - completely kills right spin attack aside from maybe a couple really powerful ones).
Jan. 06, 2014  11:09 PM
 
Really?

I may try to get some testing up tomorrow. If this thing is as broken as you make it sound we should definitely discuss banning it at some point. :\ That is, if testing is consistent... something could always come up.

But Dang... it doesn't sound like it would be that good. XD
Jan. 07, 2014  5:59 PM
 
It's a matter of having the right amount of weight distributed just the right way and a really good shape to boot. A lot of its power comes from a very impressive flywheel effect. On RF, it reminds me a lot of MF-F Phantom Cancer AD145RF back before Duo, except it also doesn't suck against attack and isn't quite so choosy with parts.
Nov. 02, 2014  8:09 PM
 
Now that the original set of tests which initiated the AA2/AA4 Scythe "molds" superiority myth have been invalidated, I think it's time we all accepted that there are no legitimate mold variation in Metal Fury Scythe Metal Wheels.
Nov. 02, 2014  8:13 PM
 
It makes sense why some Scythe's reported to either over or underperform; as some were so worked up to be "bad" or "good" molds.

It's something that might want to be relooked at some point, but since Ryuzaki/Crescent did lie with most of those tests, everything he's done or helped with is invalid.
Nov. 22, 2014  4:23 AM
 
I just got my BB-10, and was curious about using Scythe as an attack wheel. There is so little testing on it, that I decided to do it myself! Though I was testing the capabilities of the wheel more than the results of the battle.

Scythe Cancer 90 RSF
Spoiler (Click to View)

Scythe Cancer D145 RSF
Spoiler (Click to View)

Scythe Cancer D145 MF
Spoiler (Click to View)

I alternated Scythe and Omega with launching, and launched Earth and Libra first. I used the Libra because I though it was a good standard Defense bey, the Earth for stamina, and Omega for Attack, so I could understand the concept of the wheel. I was not testing for results, but rather to understand the wheel. I am not taking too much from the results, but posted them here for your benefit and to help explain what I have learned.

Now let me try to explain these results based on my knowledge of the wheel.

Scythe is a very round wheel, and was originally made and used for stamina purposes, though many have thought it would make a good attack wheel. Based on what I have found, it seems to actually be a destabilizer with quite some attack potential.

The characterising features of the Scythe wheel is stamina and lack of recoil. This bey (again, from my understanding) seems to have almost no recoil. What this means, is that when it strikes a bey after running about wildy as attack beys do, how far the other bey flies depends entirely on the other beys (not Scythe's) recoil. What this means, is that a bey with no recoil (such as Earth Capricorn B: D) will not be phased after being hit by Scythe.

Now, back the the destabilizer part. Scythe with an attack customization (I prefer MF, because it has the most stamina out of the attack tips while still retaining attack power), will repeatedly hit beys in a way that get it off balance. It starts out like a regular attack bey, doing the flower pattern if banked, and hits hard (If the other bey has recoil). After a bit though, it suddenly stops this and will start repeatedly making small hits in a rhythm that unbalances the other bey.

What does this mean? This means this bey is very versatile, and can be deadly against both defense and attack customisations. However, against stamina customs, it will not be very effective, because of the almost nonexistant recoil, the other bey is almost not effected, and because it's an "attack" type, does not have the stamina to keep up with it. However, with my tests, Scythe only lost by a little each time it was out spun. Only once or twice did Earth win with a large advantage.

I believe with an RF or R2F (I have neither) Scythe could best Stamina types, though whether it would keep the advantage over defense and attack is a mystery to me. I would appreciate it if someone could test this.

TL;DR
Scythe is a versatile wheel, that with my custom is considered a destabilizer due to it's weakness to stamina. It can be launched aggressively to be more attack like, or less aggressively to be more like a stamina/defense hybrid. It works well against Defense or Attack customs, and more testing should be done for attack Scythe customs.


Again, I would like to note this is all from what I believe to be true about the wheel. If You have any questions, concerns, or comments, please let me know! Also, tips are welcome since I am new to this!
Nov. 27, 2014  6:24 AM
 
Just realised I didn't exactly do the testing recording correctly, but it doesn't really change much.

Can't help to think that i did something wrong considering no one is interested in my post considering how much hype there was about using Scythe as an attack wheel.

Is there something I'm missing? Maybe some pool of Scythe attack testing I missed?
Nov. 27, 2014  2:14 PM
 
I myself didn't see these up until now, actually, FlyingWaffle.

For the testings, I'd say most are pretty accurate, but, the ones against Omega variants for Scythe Cancer 90RSF and Scythe Cancer DF145RSF did surprise me quite a lot. Generally, Scythe Defense variants are supposed to kill Attack, so it is kinda interesting. I do think however, mold variations have nothing to do with this, given all the testings done were fabricated. I do remember doing tests, where as AA2 did much better in comparison to AA1, which confused me.

FlyingWaffle Wrote:Scythe with an attack customization (I prefer MF, because it has the most stamina out of the attack tips while still retaining attack power), will repeatedly hit beys in a way that get it off balance. It starts out like a regular attack bey, doing the flower pattern if banked, and hits hard (If the other bey has recoil).

Scythe, in my opinion, shouldn't be considered full on out Attack. I'm not too sure if you are already aware that we have Scythe CH120RF, quite a competitive setup, but lies more on Anti Attack or Balance-based.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

And no, you didn't do anything wrong with the testings, either. Getting all these done does show what kind of member you can be, though. Thank you, I really appreciate them, dude.
Nov. 29, 2014  1:56 AM
 
Just got a couple of Scythe Defense tests done, comparing them to Libra and Earth ones.

Shido Wrote:------------------------------

Equipment Used (Click to View)

Battle Notes (Click to View)

Scythe Cancer 100RSF (Click to View)

Libra 100RSF (Click to View)

Earth Cancer 100RSF (Click to View)

Just by my tests done, Earth seemed to do the best, getting an 80 percent overall win rate. The results weren't all that different from one another, though; they were all just about the same. That being said, just judging by these alone, I wouldn't say that one is better than other, given that, again, not only were the results similar, but I feel like the bigger amount of losses for one Beyblade was just coincidental.
Nov. 29, 2014  5:52 AM
 
Hey, I just wanted to do some follow up testing following what Shido was doing. I would like to note that I think omitting Self-KOs is stupid, because a Self-KO would be considered a loss in an actual match, and I believe it screws with the actual results.

For this test, ties and Self-KOs were recorded and redone. However, I will also show the win rate as if the Self-KOs were redone, but still count as a match, to show the difference in win rate it produces. I used a BB-10 stadium, and normal rip-cord launchers.

All tests were done against Lightning L-Drago GB145 MF, the clear wheel used (except for Libra, since it doesn't use one) Cancer was used for all purposes.

230 CS
Spoiler (Click to View)

D125 CS
Spoiler (Click to View)

85 CS
Spoiler (Click to View)

So, yeah. I prefer testing with Self KO not being redone, since that's not how it happens at tournaments. The strange numbers are because the percentage is derived from a different number of total matches to accommodate the Self KO recordings.

Anyways, I think Scythe could be a defense wheel, if not a top tier, but it's viable. I honestly don't understand my results, but I think Scythe is too wide to be a defense wheel, and it doesn't have the extra weight, so it's weight is distributed more thinly than most beys, which I think hurts its defense capabilities.
Nov. 29, 2014  1:24 PM
 
FlyingWaffle Wrote:I would like to note that I think omitting Self-KOs is stupid, because a Self-KO would be considered a loss in an actual match, and I believe it screws with the actual results.

It's definitely not stupid, nor is it a bad idea. In fact, you'd also be getting more accurate results, too.

While yes, it would be considering a battle loss in an actual tournament loss, still, take this scenario, for say: If a Beyblade that does well against the one its being tested against continues to get Self-KOs without making any other contact to the other Beyblade, also having the testings being recorded down, as well, others would get the wrong idea and impression of the setup and its use against something which is proven to beat the opposing setup.
Nov. 29, 2014  6:36 PM
 
(Nov. 29, 2014  1:24 PM)Shido Wrote:
FlyingWaffle Wrote:I would like to note that I think omitting Self-KOs is stupid, because a Self-KO would be considered a loss in an actual match, and I believe it screws with the actual results.

It's definitely not stupid, nor is it a bad idea. In fact, you'd also be getting more accurate results, too.

While yes, it would be considering a battle loss in an actual tournament loss, still, take this scenario, for say: If a Beyblade that does well against the one its being tested against continues to get Self-KOs without making any other contact to the other Beyblade, also having the testings being recorded down, as well, others would get the wrong idea and impression of the setup and its use against something which is proven to beat the opposing setup.

Okay, so you are saying that Self-KO is where there is no contact. The beywiki defines it where the bey is knocked out due to hitting a bey while having a lot of recoil, making it leave the stadium due to it's own attack.
Nov. 29, 2014  6:59 PM
 
FlyingWaffle Wrote:Okay, so you are saying that Self-KO is where there is no contact.

That is what I meant by Self-KO, yes. I used the wrong term, my apologies.

That in mind, if those were to happen, I wouldn't redo them.
Nov. 30, 2014  2:04 AM
 
How much testing/knowledge is there on Scythe as an anti-attacker or destabilizer?
Nov. 30, 2014  2:17 AM
 
For Anti-Attack and or Balance, MF-H Scythe CH120RF is pretty good.

Not too sure about its use a destabilizer, though.
Nov. 30, 2014  5:23 AM
 
I was pretty impressed with Scythe Escolpio 85/90RF when I tested it back in the summer (lost the results, though Unhappy). I noticed Escolpio seems to line up really well with those metal slopes on Scythe, making for Driger-V2-esque upward launching of relatively taller Beys.
Nov. 30, 2014  5:37 AM
 
(Nov. 30, 2014  5:23 AM)Aɴɢʀʏ Fᴀᴄᴇ Wrote: I was pretty impressed with Scythe Escolpio 85/90RF when I tested it back in the summer (lost the results, though Unhappy). I noticed Escolpio seems to line up really well with those metal slopes on Scythe, making for Driger-V2-esque upward launching of relatively taller Beys.

I personally like Orion on Scythe. I can try out Scythe Orion 90 RF when I get the parts, not sure if I'll ever get an Escolpio though. Like I said before, I think Scythe can be really good as an attack bey, but I don't (currently) have enough parts to test it fully.
Dec. 01, 2014  9:47 PM
 
Scythe Orion 100 R2F V.S. Earth Cancer BD
Scythe: 15 (15 KO)
Earth: 5 (5 OS)
Scythe Win Rate: 75%

Scythe Orion 100 R2F V.S. Earth Cancer 85 WD
Scythe: 10 (10 KO)
Earth: 10 (1 KO, 9 OS)
Scythe Win Rate: 50%

I personally would never use Scythe as an attack wheel from what I saw here. It's like a worse version of Pegasis. It has 2-3 shots at KOing the other beyblade, and if it doesn't kO it in those few shots then it's already almost out of spin. Pegasis has a few more shots, and it's shot are more powerful.

Scythe also has a tendency to start tornado stalling much more than other attack wheels. After 1 shot sometimes it will just start circling around. I think it is because of it's much larger diametre.
Dec. 05, 2014  1:38 AM
 
Decided to try out Scythe Scorpio 85 RF since Angry posted about it a few posts up and it seemed interesting.
Scythe Scorpio 85 RF vs Earth Bull B;D
Scythe: 16 (16 KO, 0 OS)
Earth: 4 (4 OS, 0 KO)
Scythe Win Percentage: 80%
Spoiler (Click to View)

Scythe Scorpio 85 RF vs Earth Bull 100 WD
Scythe: 14 (14 KO, 0 OS)
Earth: 6 (6 OS, 0 KO)
Scythe Win Percentage: 70%
Spoiler (Click to View)
Scythe Actually didn't do to bad with late game KO's and it obviously it got early game KO's. Maybe Scorpio is better than Orion on this combo since FlyingWaffle stated that if it does not KO within 2-3 hits it will lose because Scorpio was getting KO's when it looked like it was about to be out spun.

Scythe Scorpio 85 RF vs MF-H Libra 85 RB
Scorpio:5 (5 KO, 0 OS)
Libra: 15 (14 OS, 1 KO)
Scorpio Win Percentage: 25%
Spoiler (Click to View)
Libra just shredded it. I was banking and KO's were hard to come by. A few times Scythe was in Rotations of OSing, but it couldn't pull it off. I'll try to get some benchmarks against a top tier attacker vs Libra 85 RB soon.
Dec. 05, 2014  4:08 AM
 
(Dec. 05, 2014  1:38 AM)Thunder Dome Wrote: Decided to try out Scythe Scorpio 85 RF since Angry posted about it a few posts up and it seemed interesting.
Scythe Scorpio 85 RF vs Earth Bull B;D
Scythe: 16 (16 KO, 0 OS)
Earth: 4 (4 OS, 0 KO)
Scythe Win Percentage: 80%
Spoiler (Click to View)

Scythe Scorpio 85 RF vs Earth Bull 100 WD
Scythe: 14 (14 KO, 0 OS)
Earth: 6 (6 OS, 0 KO)
Scythe Win Percentage: 70%
Spoiler (Click to View)
Scythe Actually didn't do to bad with late game KO's and it obviously it got early game KO's. Maybe Scorpio is better than Orion on this combo since FlyingWaffle stated that if it does not KO within 2-3 hits it will lose because Scorpio was getting KO's when it looked like it was about to be out spun.

Scythe Scorpio 85 RF vs MF-H Libra 85 RB
Scorpio:5 (5 KO, 0 OS)
Libra: 15 (14 OS, 1 KO)
Scorpio Win Percentage: 25%
Spoiler (Click to View)
Libra just shredded it. I was banking and KO's were hard to come by. A few times Scythe was in Rotations of OSing, but it couldn't pull it off. I'll try to get some benchmarks against a top tier attacker vs Libra 85 RB soon.

This is really interesting. I do not own a Scorpio. Maybe I'll do some more testing after I finish this Omega Defense mess I made (twice as much testing because of the modes T_T)
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