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[LTD] MF-H Flame Cancer TH170RB

Feb. 01, 2015  2:33 AM
 
MF-H Flame Cancer TH170RB
Because Hell 230CS is banned in Limited.


Concept: A Defense/Stamina hybrid that uses Flame's elevated shape and a tall Track to avoid metal-on-metal contact. RB's defensive power and surprising Stamina for a rubber tip and MF-H give the otherwise flimsy Flame the grip and weight it needs to withstand hits.

Parts Choice:
Spoiler (Click to View)

Equipment
Spoiler (Click to View)

Testing

vs. Attack (Click to View)

vs. Defense (Click to View)

vs. Stamina (Click to View)

Overall:While I don't think it's top-tier worthy, it's an interesting combo and can hold its own fairly well against some things. You have to predict right to win with it though.
Feb. 01, 2015  2:48 AM
 
Stamina is the only thing that mostly beats it. Other than that, I really love this combo.
Feb. 01, 2015  3:04 AM
 
Interesting- very interesting. Nice to see use of a Flame wheel.

Seeing how this goes and posting a similar one too soon would look like me copying this (even though we've established "copying" isn't a thing, but, yeah), I kind of want to try this setup on something else- if I gave you some credit for the inspiration, would that be cool with you?
Feb. 01, 2015  3:30 AM
 
(Feb. 01, 2015  3:04 AM)Leone19 Wrote: Interesting- very interesting. Nice to see use of a Flame wheel.

Seeing how this goes and posting a similar one too soon would look like me copying this (even though we've established "copying" isn't a thing, but, yeah), I kind of want to try this setup on something else- if I gave you some credit for the inspiration, would that be cool with you?

It's totally fine. I'm sure that almost everyone has taken inspiration from someone else's testing thread, so it's really not a big deal. That's part of what makes the WBO a community, how we build off each other.
Mar. 05, 2015  3:36 AM
 
This is quite interesting it definitely can give use to flame. I am going to try it out in a tournament and see how it holds up especially against destabilizers and other th170 combos.
Ethan h
Mar. 05, 2015  3:43 AM
 
Interesting combo; never really thought I'd see a use for Flame in Limited aside from destabilization purposes.

Though I don't own an RB myself, I already have an idea on how this preforms. Even so, I'd really appreciate if someone can get some video done against attack, especially against Ronin and Lightning attack. Were they not capable of even some destabilization being left-spin?

Awesome thread, Wombat. Smile
Mar. 05, 2015  8:51 AM
 
The closest I could get to this combo would be flame Sagittario II 230 WB/CS/SD
Mar. 06, 2015  4:06 AM
 
(Mar. 05, 2015  3:43 AM)Honey Wrote: Interesting combo; never really thought I'd see a use for Flame in Limited aside from destabilization purposes.

Though I don't own an RB myself, I already have an idea on how this preforms. Even so, I'd really appreciate if someone can get some video done against attack, especially against Ronin and Lightning attack. Were they not capable of even some destabilization being left-spin?

Awesome thread, Wombat. Smile

If you use 220 Ronin (I'm assuming LTAC) should be too short to get any destabilization but might have some minor spin equalization. Unless your opponent is using H145/TR145/R145 220 should also avoid Lightning for the most part. If I have time this weekend I'll post some videos.

(Mar. 05, 2015  8:51 AM)Ultimate Libra Wrote: The closest I could get to this combo would be flame Sagittario II 230 WB/CS/SD

230CS could work for a similar hybrid combo, SD would make it more of a Stamina type and you probably shouldn't be using WB. I considered using 230RB but changed to TH170 to have an advantage over HTSCs.
Mar. 07, 2015  2:31 AM
 
Nice combo. I will try it out soon.
Mar. 07, 2015  2:36 PM
 
great combo! I'm working on Flame wheel for different set-up and this one is just great hah! nice job and keep going!
Mar. 08, 2015  10:34 PM
 
I did some more tests today, and have videos as well, though they're only one round.

MF-H Flame Cancer TH220RB vs. MSF-H Dark Knight Zirago 85RF
Cancer: 7 wins (6 OS, 1 KO)
Zirago: 3 wins (all KO)
Cancer win rate: 70%
video


MF-H Flame Cancer TH220RB vs. MF-H Lightning L-Drago (Upper) TR145RF
Cancer: 6 wins (all OS)
L-Drago: 4 wins (all KO)
Cancer win rate: 60%
video 1
video 2

EDIT: I just realized I have yet to test against a HTSC so I'll do that in the near future.

EDIT2: I also just realized how awful vertical iphone looks on vidme, I'll make sure to do it horizontally next time.
Mar. 09, 2015  3:01 PM
 
Do you own Divine ? I would like to see some testings, I heard that it is quite aggressive against tall tracks. It also definetly need to be tested against Libra and maybe MF-H Pegasis CH120/R145RF/R2F.
Mar. 18, 2015  4:34 PM
 
Just saw the videos, and it actually looked most of those matches could have easily gone the other way around. KOs from Dark Knight and Lightning looked like they were very possible, no offence. Like Flame was knocked around a lot.

And yes, while I know that this is supposed to be a Defense/Stamina hybrid, I'd still appreciate it if someone can do benchmarks with Libra TH170/220 RB. I think left-spin attack like the ones you tested, Wombat, would have a harder time getting the KO because of the weight difference.

Still, awesome thread, haha. Sorry if I came off sounding a bit rude though.

EDIT: Noticed that in the first Lightning vs Flame video that Lightning really didn't have like any stamina once you flipped the camera to stadium once again. Confused
Mar. 19, 2015  1:37 AM
 
(Mar. 09, 2015  3:01 PM)MissingNo. Wrote: Do you own Divine ? I would like to see some testings, I heard that it is quite aggressive against tall tracks. It also definetly need to be tested against Libra and maybe MF-H Pegasis CH120/R145RF/R2F.

Sorry I didn't see this until now, but no, I don't own Divine. Just by looking at pictures I can't really see how it would be aggressive against tall tracks; isn't it just like a 9-sided Clay? To me it seems like the Clear Wheel would be doing most of the work.

(Mar. 18, 2015  4:34 PM)Honey Wrote: Just saw the videos, and it actually looked most of those matches could have easily gone the other way around. KOs from Dark Knight and Lightning looked like they were very possible, no offence. Like Flame was knocked around a lot.

And yes, while I know that this is supposed to be a Defense/Stamina hybrid, I'd still appreciate it if someone can do benchmarks with Libra TH170/220 RB. I think left-spin attack like the ones you tested, Wombat, would have a harder time getting the KO because of the weight difference.

Still, awesome thread, haha. Sorry if I came off sounding a bit rude though.

EDIT: Noticed that in the first Lightning vs Flame video that Lightning really didn't have like any stamina once you flipped the camera to stadium once again. Confused

Yeah, no offense taken. Flame definitely got lucky in the second vs. LLD video, and since I don't have a tripod that works with my iPhone we missed the first few seconds where Lightning may have hit a wall or something and lost a bunch of Stamina. I don't remember, sorry. I'll do benchmarks with Libra at some point (kinda busy this weekend). Theoretically, Libra's overhang and recoily underside should overcompensate for the weight, which is kind of what Flame is supposed to avoid, but I'll see which one's better when I test them.
Mar. 19, 2015  4:58 PM
 
(Mar. 19, 2015  1:37 AM)Wombat Wrote: Sorry I didn't see this until now, but no, I don't own Divine. Just by looking at pictures I can't really see how it would be aggressive against tall tracks; isn't it just like a 9-sided Clay? To me it seems like the Clear Wheel would be doing most of the work.

IDK, it was used by Sniper in a Limited tournament and he managed to win with it so...

(Jan. 13, 2015  3:12 AM)Time Wrote:
(Jan. 10, 2015  3:52 PM)Sniper Wrote: Like I said left spin attackers and I forgot what was the combo Time used but it sent it flying

It was either scythe cancer 230tb or libra th170tb can't remember which
And no joke flying. That thing sent my combo into the wall once from like 5 feet away and over the wall the other two times.
Mar. 21, 2015  7:44 PM
 
(Jan. 13, 2015  3:12 AM)Time Wrote:
(Jan. 10, 2015  3:52 PM)Sniper Wrote: Like I said left spin attackers and I forgot what was the combo Time used but it sent it flying

It was either scythe cancer 230tb or libra th170tb can't remember which
And no joke flying. That thing sent my combo into the wall once from like 5 feet away and over the wall the other two times.
Well first of all that says TB not RB so that might explain a few things. It's ok, I misread things all the time.

MF-H Flame Cancer TH170RB vs. Earth Cancer 230D
Flame: 5 wins (1 KO, 5 OS)
Earth: 15 wins (all OS)
Flame win rate: 25%
So despite what I thought about 170 being able to get under HTSC and destabilize was wrong. RB just doesn't have the Stamina to do that.

Flame Cancer vs Libra (Click to View)

I only did 10 rounds with Omega because I was afraid it would take a piece out of my TH170, sorry. So they seem about equal to me, here's why I think why:

You all remember that CS picture I made during the Defense reformation?
So basically I've worn down my RB enough to where it will do the same thing. Since Flame is lighter than Libra, if it can survive the first hit, it is much better at pulling off this counterattack than Libra, which is harder to move, but usually can't move fast enough to counterattack. When an attacker KOd Libra, it was usually through a combo while Libra was already near the edge of the Stadium. However, Libra was still able to net more KOs than Flame because it was able to Force Smash its opponents (Especially LLD) into a recoil KO. Flame has a much smoother underside, so while it is generally unable to get a KO after countering, it could still shut down most of the attacker's momentum.