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[LTD.] 4D Bottom Discussion

Aug. 09, 2014  8:29 PM
 
Figured I'd make this topic. As you know, most Limited combinations do not use 4D bottoms. However, we did see Gravity XGrin before it was banned and hopefully, with TheSupremeOne's topic, we can finally start getting some use in 4D bottoms.

We finally need to get "official" tests for Libra BGrin, something that's been talked about a lot, but I've never seen tests for.

I think the following things should be looked into:

- FGrin for Destabilization, possibly Anti-Attack(?)- Libra FGrin(?)
-FConfused for Destabilization
-XGrin for Spin Equalization, possibly Stalling
- BGrin for Stamina and Spin Steal (Obviously, haha)
- DGrin for _______(?)

This topic is basically for posting test results, linking combination test topics/results, suggesting combinations or ideas with 4D Drives in a Limited environment.

Here are the following combination topics with 4D bottoms:
TheSupremeOne- Lightning L-Drago FGrin- http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Lightning-L-Drago-F-D
Leone19 (me)- Meteo L-Drago XGrin- http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Meteo-L-Drago-X-D
Tri- Gravity BGrin- http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-LTD-MF-L...erseus-B-D (Now Banned)

So this topic isn't to say that 4D bottoms are all Tier worthy, but definitely something to look into.
Aug. 09, 2014  8:44 PM
 
You should probably disable those smilies, kinda confusing, hah.

I'd like for people to test BGrin, it's a great part.
Aug. 09, 2014  8:47 PM
 
(Aug. 09, 2014  8:44 PM)Echizen Wrote: You should probably disable those smilies, kinda confusing, hah.

I'd like for people to test BGrin, it's a great part.

I like Libra BGrin, I think Burn and possibly Earth BGrin should be looked into.

As for smilies, that might be a good idea, haha.
Aug. 09, 2014  10:48 PM
 
I don't think F:D is great for destabilization, truthfully. I looked into Meteo F:D & Libra F:D before posting the Lightning L Drago F:D thread and both of them are decent, but not top tier stamina because of F:D's rubber base. With that specific performance tip, I think focusing on mostly attack would be best. I can test X:D when I get it sometime soon.
Aug. 09, 2014  11:55 PM
 
(Aug. 09, 2014  10:48 PM)The Supreme One Wrote: I don't think FGrin is great for destabilization, truthfully. I looked into Meteo FGrin & Libra FGrin before posting the Lightning L Drago FGrin thread and both of them are decent, but not top tier stamina because of FGrin's rubber base. With that specific performance tip, I think focusing on mostly attack would be best. I can test XGrin when I get it sometime soon.

I did some Libra FGrin tests today, it did alright, but not as well as I hoped. Your L-Drago topic definitely shows it has Attack potential, though.
Aug. 10, 2014  12:15 AM
 
I noticed that on the combo ______ Bahamdia FGrin the SF tip stay in longer and there seems to be a tip locking function. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Aug. 10, 2014  12:18 AM
 
I think DGrinis for Balance.
Aug. 10, 2014  1:13 AM
 
(Aug. 10, 2014  12:15 AM)Ocean Wrote: I noticed that on the combo ______ Bahamdia FGrin the SF tip stay in longer and there seems to be a tip locking function. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I've noticed on certain customs (say, Libra FGrin, haven't tried it on Stone Faces so I wouldn't know) with TT faces/pre-Metal Masters faces without the stoppers on them, if they're screwed in fully-too tight that FGrin will lock up in whatever mode it was in when put together. That definitely may be an issue with FGrin when used on certain parts/faces.
(Aug. 10, 2014  12:18 AM)Shido-kun Wrote: I think DGrinis for Balance.

Definitely could be, but nothing for DGrin has been tested in Limited, yet. Perhaps something like Libra DGrin or something.
Aug. 10, 2014  11:21 AM
 
The problem with D:D is that it contains all mediocre tips. While it's great that people are looking for potential uses for it, I'm not sure if any will turn up.

Does anyone know the height of the 4D bottoms? Are they the same as 145+a tip?
Aug. 10, 2014  11:24 AM
 
(Aug. 10, 2014  11:21 AM)Dual Wrote: The problem with DGrin is that it contains all mediocre tips. While it's great that people are looking for potential uses for it, I'm not sure if any will turn up.

Does anyone know the height of the 4D bottoms? Are they the same as 145+a tip?


When I get back on the site next week, I'll do some height comparison pictures.
Aug. 10, 2014  3:24 PM
 
Are all 4D fusion wheels banned? Is there a tournament where you can use any parts?
Aug. 10, 2014  3:27 PM
 
PegasusBlader32 You can use any parts in both Standard and Zero G. 4D fusion wheels are only banned in Limited.

From what I can tell, using my stone age method of measuring (lining them up and balancing a card on top), B:D and F:D (the only two 4D bottoms I have at the moment) are about a 210 measurement. They're just slightly taller than SR200 & definitely shorter than 230.
Oct. 12, 2014  7:34 PM
 
If anyone is willing to help conduct tests on a developmental combo featuring the use of FGrin, please PM me. Tongue_out
Oct. 17, 2014  7:42 AM
 
Something I was looking into at one point was samurai balro f:s, it was putting up some interesting results if anyone has the time to look into it.
Jan. 03, 2015  3:09 PM
 
(Aug. 09, 2014  10:48 PM)The Supreme One Wrote: I don't think FGrin is great for destabilization, truthfully. I looked into Meteo FGrin & Libra FGrin before posting the Lightning L Drago FGrin thread and both of them are decent, but not top tier stamina because of FGrin's rubber base. With that specific performance tip, I think focusing on mostly attack would be best. I can test XGrin when I get it sometime soon.

FGrin would be closest to a balance tip but a bit more on attack.
Jan. 03, 2015  4:54 PM
 
if you're gonna try libra, try emerald libra B:D
Jan. 03, 2015  11:34 PM
 
Little bit of testing with F: D.

Scythe Pegasus II F: D vs Earth Saggitario B: D
Scythe: 13 (13 KO, 0 OS)
Earth: 7 (7 OS)
Scythe Win Rate: 65 Win Rate
Spoiler (Click to View)

Benchmark with results from another thread
Scythe Scorpio 85 RF vs Earth Bull B;D
Scythe: 16 (16 KO, 0 OS)
Earth: 4 (4 OS, 0 KO)
Scythe Win Percentage: 80%
Spoiler (Click to View)
F: D didn't work to great for me, not any better than the 85 RF Set up. If anyone else wants to try this combo that would be cool.

Edit: Sorry when typing this post I was in a bit of a rush as I had to do something else, but wanted to get the Scythe Test Up. During the F: D tests the majority of Scythe's KO's were early game, although a few came late game when Final Drive Activated. I don't really think this is Top Tier Worthy, but it was interesting to try out. My main problem was F: D's inconsistency late game as sometimes it could get an easy KO, while most other times it was a weak attacker.
Jan. 04, 2015  1:57 AM
 
Here are a couple of my F:S testings for attack.

Lightning L-Drago F:S versus Earth Cancer W145WD
Both Bottoms in their Prime • Earth Cancer Launched First all Matches
Lightning L-Drago: 12/20 (ALL KO) 60% Win Rate
Earth Cancer: 8/20 (2 OS, 6 KO) 40% Win Rate

Omega Horuseus F:S versus Earth Cancer W145WD
Both Bottoms in their Prime • Earth Cancer Launched First all Matches
Omega Horuseus: 13/20 (ALL KO) 65% Win Rate
Earth Cancer: 7/20 (5 OS, 2 KO) 35% Win Rate

Ronin Bahamdia F:S versus Earth Cancer W145WD
Both Bottoms in their Prime • Earth Cancer Launched First all Matches • Crystal Mode Up
Ronin Bahamdia: 13/20 (ALL KO) 65% Win Rate
Earth Cancer: 7/20 (2 OS, 5 KO) 35% Win Rate

Interesting results; I thought F:S wouldn't do all that fancy. I was pretty happy with the outcome, although Lightning and Ronin Bahamdia F:S did seem to have some recoil issues; that's why they lost a lot of their matches.

Therefore, F:S probably isn't tier-list worthy, but something that should definitely be looked into furthermore.
Jan. 04, 2015  7:09 PM
 
can you try with meteo Ldrago on F: S
Jan. 04, 2015  9:01 PM
 
Meteo L-Drago F:S vs Earth Bull W145 WD
Meteo L-Drago F:S wins: 0/10 (0% win rate, 1 self-KO)
Earth Bull W145 WD wins: 10/10 (all OS; 100% win rate)

Not surprising. I wouldn't really focus on this bottom. It may pull decent numbers, but there are so many better options and the imbalance is a major issue.

Burn Cancer X:D vs Earth Bull W145 WD
Burn Cancer X:D wins: 2/10 (20% win rate)
Earth Bull W145 WD wins: 8/10 (80% win rate)

X:D may be a little better in this regard, but they both preform significantly worse than any of the more popular flat tips. Let's give this another shot:

Burn Cancer D:D (F mode) vs Earth Bull W145 WD
Burn Cancer D:D wins:1/10 (1 OS; 10% win rate)
Earth Bull W145 WD wins: 9/10 (90% win rate)
Ties: 1

Well that's disappointing. For MF benchmarks, check my old Burn Aquario 90 MF thread.