World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade General

Is it time we created a limited Burst format?

Jul. 09, 2018  5:18 PM
 
(Jul. 09, 2018  5:16 PM)Rebel Blader Wrote: I would personally say this should be the parts for a limited format
All dual layers and single layer but the only god layers allowed should be nL, bR, gV and strike gV, kS, gK,bJ,kD
As for disks 5,0,10,7 should be banned and for drivers atomic and destroy should be banned

Agreed. Though I think nL shouldn't be allowed. It's still overpowered for all things you listed which should remain usable
Jul. 09, 2018  6:43 PM
 
(Jul. 09, 2018  5:18 PM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: Agreed. Though I think nL shouldn't be allowed. It's still overpowered for all things you listed which should remain usable

Yea i thought it was too but i think it wont be op as the only viable options for it would be hold and xtreme.  On xtreme it would struggle to burst stuff due to all stamina/defense stuff being right spin and on hold it might strugle against Bearing and yell revolve combos.  But i guess testing of nL should be done against the limited stamina/Defense stuff before entering it in.
Edit how about lS instead of nL
Jul. 09, 2018  7:49 PM
 
Shelter Regalus should also be legal (It's absolute Garbage)

and Blaze Ragnaruk should be banned, because up to mG, it was God top tier.

I would ban D2 and L2. They were top tier and hard to counter in Dual Layer days.

I would actually ban All numbers except for 11, Heavy, and Gravity. In dual layer days, anything other than H and G were outclassed due to weight.

At, Be, and Ds should be banned. Seriously. This is the first time ever I think a highly developed metagame has a plastic contact-point attack tip.
Jul. 09, 2018  8:05 PM
 
I stand by what I said before, that Hasbro-only should be instead the "Hasbro Limited Format" and allow TT beys that line up with Hasbro's release schedule. Right now, Hasbro-only is a waste as it's never used, but we still have Hasbro players who feel left out and behind because they opted for the less popular WBO pick.

A Hasbro Limited Format would allow for beys that have fallen behind the latest to still be relevant. And it brings more Beyblade fans together.

For creating an additional format (or more) beyond that....we can talk about what we want as much as we want. Talking doesn't get things done by itself. What needs to actually be done to make it happen?
Kei said this before, and so a good enough proposal needs to be put together for anything to happen.

(Apr. 10, 2018  4:11 AM)Kei Wrote: In any case, I'd still love to see discussion about it theoretically speaking. Wouldn't hurt. And if a good proposal is made, perhaps we can reconsider our timing for its potential implementation.
Jul. 24, 2018  3:05 PM
 
I would like to push this topic up again.
In my opinion we've come to a point where a majority of the Beyblade Burst releases (single layer, dual layer, a few god layers) are not viable for competitive play anymore. And that feels bad for me having quite a big collection. I simply don't like the idea of my old beys collection dust because they are not competitive anymore.
A limited format would allow us to use the first two generations of Burst again with the inclusion of some god layer beys.
Jul. 24, 2018  9:35 PM
 
Good thoughts, I just don't know how much turnout you could expect.
Jul. 25, 2018  2:30 AM
 
In addition to an overall Limited Format, I think we should make limited formats for each of the Systems. Maybe even allow certain discs and Drivers from other Systems, and mainly limit them to the layers. For example, the 6, 13, and 11 discs could be allowed in the Dual Layer System despite being from God/Super Z, while almost all parts from previous Systems would be allowed.
Off topic, but does anyone know where I can find an existing thread about different Stadiums?
Jul. 25, 2018  3:21 AM
 
We need to start making lists of what falls under which category, if we were to do a God Limited Format, a Dual Layer Format, a Dual/God Layer Format, etc.

Might be a good idea to just start throwing parts into tiers, starting with Tier 1 for the current Standard Format, and then work the way down. Best competitive parts for Standard that can hold their own against each other are Tier 1. Remove Tier 1 parts, then what's the next batch? That's Tier 2. Then keep working until you have a handful of tiers. (This would probably work best for the layers, I think more leeway may be given to other parts.)
Jul. 25, 2018  3:27 AM
 
I think that most, if not all, of the Super Z layers would fall into Tier 1. Maybe there should be in-between Tiers like in the Smogon system for Pokémon. Then, the tournament organizer could choose whether or not they want the few parts in that Tier to be in their tournament.
Small Example:
Hell Salamander would be Tier 1 material.
Bloody Longinus, Crash Ragnaruk, Sieg Xcalibur, etc. would be in Tier 1.5
Beys with at least one of the following would be in Tier 1.5 until someone feels the need to move them:
Randomly Varying Molds that drastically change effectiveness or too little testing to know how it fits in (Hazard Kerbeus fits into both categories)
Also, Tier 0 for Banned Layers
Jul. 25, 2018  3:52 AM
 
The issue with Smogon's tiers is that it's not defined by power per se as much as actual usage. They do calculations and shift Pokémon based on how used they are. Granted, what's legal in Standard does seem to depend on usage...I think it's more complex than that.

It's one thing to make a wishy-washy list and want more testing, but it's another to throw it on the organizers to figure out and go on their own with. Kei said it himself, we need an actual proposal. In that, we need to work out an actual structure. Something people can agree upon.

I have no experience at all with pre-God parts, having none at all, but if I knew what would be considered competitive for an intended format, I could buy start buying them later in the year.

Still think a Hasbro Limited Format should exist. Hasbro-only is such a waste, but allowing TT would be a benefit for both sides, I think. We'd have a 6-months-back format for older TT parts and Hasbro folks could play more evenly in a format that has a higher potential of happening.
Jul. 25, 2018  4:16 AM
 
I think, at the beginning, we should just go by what we put on the wiki. At least for God Layer and Super Z. We'd need previous drafts for Dual Layer and before
Jul. 25, 2018  11:38 AM
 
I read someone came in second to a player who used a stock beyblade. I think even with "collection purpose" parts in a combo, people can still stand a good chance in winning. Maybe? I dunno . Lol
Jul. 25, 2018  4:45 PM
 
(Jul. 25, 2018  11:38 AM)bronxand Wrote: I read someone came in second to a player who used a stock beyblade. I think even with "collection purpose" parts in a combo, people can still stand a good chance in winning. Maybe? I dunno . Lol
Was it Arc Bahamut? It's actually really good with its stock combo...
Jul. 25, 2018  5:08 PM
 
Good thoughts in here, but consider how much more complexity you’re inviting into these events. Organizers sometimes have challenges now in dealing with bladers and parents when stock beys they bought at Walmart can’t be used in their local tournaments. If we introduce a limited format with so many nuances, it quickly becomes nightmarish to legislate and police it...
Jul. 25, 2018  5:25 PM
 
(Jul. 25, 2018  5:08 PM)Beymax Wrote: Good thoughts in here, but consider how much more complexity you’re inviting into these events. Organizers sometimes have challenges now in dealing with bladers and parents when stock beys they bought at Walmart can’t be used in their local tournaments. If we introduce a limited format with so many nuances, it quickly becomes nightmarish to legislate and police it...
Introducing different Tiers to the Limited Format may be difficult for people, I agree, but it's almost time that it's a necessity. That same scenario of disappointment also happened back in Metal Fight. For minir tournaments, the organizer would just choose the Tier 1, or current format. For big tournaments, like the BeyTuber Brawl, there would be several formats ranging from Tier 1 to Tier 3 (Dual Layer Format)
For now, it's just best to make a list of what Beys are in what Tiers and see if the public likes the format Recycling.
Jul. 25, 2018  8:18 PM
 
Makes sense. Would probably help to amend registration to have players register the beys they are entering with at the outset, kind of like the all-deck format that has been proposed elsewhere on here. If there was software that could automatically flag exceptions instead of relying on volunteer organizers that already have enough to worry about on tournament days, that would help a lot.
Jul. 25, 2018  8:29 PM
 
I am an idea. Allow the number disks 13, 11, and 2 for there relative lightness and decent lack of stamina. No frames should be allowed as they have the potential to dominate the format.
Jul. 25, 2018  9:06 PM
 
(Jul. 25, 2018  4:16 AM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: I think, at the beginning, we should just go by what we put on the wiki. At least for God Layer and Super Z. We'd need previous drafts for Dual Layer and before

You're saying look at what it says is collectibles and what's not? Yeah, that's a way to start.

People who participated in tournaments during previous systems can probably provide valuable input.
(Jul. 25, 2018  5:08 PM)Beymax Wrote: Good thoughts in here, but consider how much more complexity you’re inviting into these events. Organizers sometimes have challenges now in dealing with bladers and parents when stock beys they bought at Walmart can’t be used in their local tournaments. If we introduce a limited format with so many nuances, it quickly becomes nightmarish to legislate and police it...

(Jul. 25, 2018  8:18 PM)Beymax Wrote: Makes sense. Would probably help to amend registration to have players register the beys they are entering with at the outset, kind of like the all-deck format that has been proposed elsewhere on here.  If there was software that could automatically flag exceptions instead of relying on volunteer organizers that already have enough to worry about on tournament days, that would help a lot.

I'm going to disagree with you that creating a limited format makes things too complex. The standard format will remain the most popular, and people who have trouble with limited can just not attend or borrow parts as needed. Limited MFB works, and I think the same can go for older systems in Burst. It's just a matter of how wanted it is, is all.

I think making a parts registration system is actually over-complicating things (register your parts, judge must check that you are using the exact parts, etc.) and puts a limitation in events where there is now flexibilty. I think just having judges available for asking questions at sign-up would suffice. Having available print-outs of what's allowed and what's not would also be good.

If you don't want to run or attend a limited format, then you don't.
Jul. 25, 2018  9:12 PM
 
I hear you, and respect your opinion. I make no claims to having anything about this figured out, just throwing out some ideas
Aug. 10, 2018  1:27 AM
 
I know it's still to early to talk about stuff like this, but do you think the Burst Limited Format would be separated into two categories? Single/Dual Layer and God Layer.

For Metal Fight, Fusion and Masters were pretty much identical, they were more continuations of each other than different systems, which is something we see in the Single and Dual Layers. However, God is very similar to Metal Fury/4D with massive increases in weight that left the previous two systems completely outclassed.

If we were to ban all/most of Chou-Z and some of the later God Layers, we'd be back to where we were when Legend Spriggan first came out (not that that would be a bad thing), with no Single or Dual Layers to be seen (aside from the occasional Dark Deathscyther.

If we were to ban all Chou-Z and most mid to late God Layers (as well as problematic Single Layers like Deathsycther and Neptune) we'd have a meta with Layers like Victory Valkyrie being top-tier and common with even more Disk and Driver choices. To me, both sound good.
Aug. 11, 2018  6:26 AM
 
(Aug. 10, 2018  1:27 AM)MonoDragon Wrote: I know it's still to early to talk about stuff like this, but do you think the Burst Limited Format would be separated into two categories? Single/Dual Layer and God Layer.

For Metal Fight, Fusion and Masters were pretty much identical, they were more continuations of each other than different systems, which is something we see in the Single and Dual Layers. However, God is very similar to Metal Fury/4D with massive increases in weight that left the previous two systems completely outclassed.

If we were to ban all/most of Chou-Z and some of the later God Layers, we'd be back to where we were when Legend Spriggan first came out (not that that would be a bad thing), with no Single or Dual Layers to be seen (aside from the occasional Dark Deathscyther.

If we were to ban all Chou-Z and most mid to late God Layers (as well as problematic Single Layers like Deathsycther and Neptune) we'd have a meta with Layers like Victory Valkyrie being top-tier and common with even more Disk and Driver choices. To me, both sound good.
I totally agree with u we should make like three formats one for single layers+dual layers+ some early and some trash switchstrike layers(lS,bR,nL,bJ,shelter regulus,  blast jinius, bK(maybe) etc.  And the second format would ban later releases And oP cho-Z stuff(aH,Hs etc)  to allow god layers And some chcho z to coexist lastly we would have a standard format which is what we r using rn in tournaments. Due to the fact that most hasbro godlayers and dual layers stuff has been released, hasbro beys would also benefit from the two formats i have suggested.
Aug. 15, 2018  5:36 PM
 
(Aug. 11, 2018  6:26 AM)Rebel Blader Wrote:
(Aug. 10, 2018  1:27 AM)MonoDragon Wrote: I know it's still to early to talk about stuff like this, but do you think the Burst Limited Format would be separated into two categories? Single/Dual Layer and God Layer.

For Metal Fight, Fusion and Masters were pretty much identical, they were more continuations of each other than different systems, which is something we see in the Single and Dual Layers. However, God is very similar to Metal Fury/4D with massive increases in weight that left the previous two systems completely outclassed.

If we were to ban all/most of Chou-Z and some of the later God Layers, we'd be back to where we were when Legend Spriggan first came out (not that that would be a bad thing), with no Single or Dual Layers to be seen (aside from the occasional Dark Deathscyther.

If we were to ban all Chou-Z and most mid to late God Layers (as well as problematic Single Layers like Deathsycther and Neptune) we'd have a meta with Layers like Victory Valkyrie being top-tier and common with even more Disk and Driver choices. To me, both sound good.
I totally agree with u we should make like three formats one for single layers+dual layers+ some early and some trash switchstrike layers(lS,bR,nL,bJ,shelter regulus,  blast jinius, bK(maybe) etc.  And the second format would ban later releases And oP cho-Z stuff(aH,Hs etc)  to allow god layers And some chcho z to coexist lastly we would have a standard format which is what we r using rn in tournaments. Due to the fact that most hasbro godlayers and dual layers stuff has been released, hasbro beys would also benefit from the two formats i have suggested.

Agree. Personal opinion, so don't take it seriously:
Layers under 13-14 grams allowed;
Discs under 20 grams allowed;
Drivers: all allowed.

Of course we'd need enough tournaments to define too-dominant parts and ban 'em. It would also take a fair balance between TTs and Hasbros.
Aug. 15, 2018  5:43 PM
 
(Aug. 15, 2018  5:36 PM)bblader/90 Wrote: Layers under 13-14 grams allowed;
Discs under 20 grams allowed;
Drivers: all allowed.

This would result in death of attack types sadly.
Aug. 15, 2018  5:48 PM
 
(Aug. 15, 2018  5:43 PM)Rebel Blader Wrote:
(Aug. 15, 2018  5:36 PM)bblader/90 Wrote: Layers under 13-14 grams allowed;
Discs under 20 grams allowed;
Drivers: all allowed.

This would result in death of attack types sadly.

Why? I think combos like lS3/k/x could face and win against a wide variety of opponents. Maybe i've been too bad with the layers? The weight limit's too low/high? The main problem is the pretty big difference between single/dual layers and god/evolution ones (weight & performance-wise). It's gonna be hard to handle this.
Aug. 15, 2018  11:57 PM
 
If anything, I would ban any drivers with a free-spinning component around the tip. This nullifies every top tier and second tier. It *does* get rid of drivers nobody would use, but eh, it isn't like anyone would use them anyways.

The more relevant bans would be: 
Orbit
Atomic
Bearing
Destroy 
Revolve
Eternal
Yard.
Hold 

Drivers nobody would really use but still are removed under this rule:
Planet 
Volcanic
Cycle 
Gyro
Liner

Sure, it may seem extreme, but it makes regulating everything significantly simpler.

We also have the majority of drivers that don't go under this hood and can be used for all four types:
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