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Hell Aquario H145R2F: Hell strikes back?

Nov. 06, 2011  3:12 AM
 
As Soon as I pulled a hell from my newly arrived rbv7, I went thought various tests because I never owned a hell in the past. To my surprise I obtained a hell 3 min mold.

Looking at hell I realized the design was perfect for something i had planned a while back with the release of inferno. The point, on inferno, where the track connects to the metal wheel is lower the the outside the metal wheel: however, if you take a look at basalt, the outside of the metal wheel is lower than the point where to track connects to it.

Because the track is attached lower than the point of contact on the metal wheel, the track is fully exposed. Using a track like h145 on a beyblade like this will cause full h145 contact and therefore more smash. The problem with inferno, is that it is too light. It would often "self-upper" itself and get ko'd.

Here is where hell comes in. Hell has the same track expose as inferno, only it has better weight and more smash. This is good because you taking a wheel that has decent attack, adding the attack of a fully exposed h145 and your good.

The only problem is the recoil. I added an aquario for more weight; however, no metal face. To utilize this combo to the fullest, it must hit basalt at high speeds, unlike vari or beat that can simply last minute ko.

To get high speeds you must add and r2f, and launch %100 with it. You must also be able to have full control of the combo at high speeds it goes.

Here are my tests.

Equipment:
TT Attack stadium
Beylauncher and Grip used for both customs.
%100 sliding shoot for Hell
Weak launch for Basalt

Hell Aquario H145R2F v.s. MF Basalt Bull BD145MB
Hell Aquario: 14/20 (All KO)
Basalt Bull: 6/20 ( 5 KO, 1 OS)

Hell Aquario win rate: %70


Hell H145R2F v.s. MF Basalt Bull BD145MB (%100 Launch)
Hell: 15/20 ( All KO)
Basalt: 5/20 ( 1 KO, 4 OS)

Hell win rate: %75

Other Members Testing

gibsonmac's testing
Spoiler (Click to View)


Nov. 06, 2011  3:18 AM
 
So this is one of those effective but extremely risky combos? Nice stuff.
Nov. 06, 2011  3:19 AM
 
Impressive, though it is quite odd seeing even in various situations a "naked" Hell is very bad. By that term, they mean without the aid of BD145.

I can test this tomorrow.
Nov. 06, 2011  4:38 AM
 
Hell is quite bad with it naked,but I didn't thought of tHis before.Can I use it with Kerbecs?I don't have an Aquario.
Nov. 06, 2011  4:42 AM
 
Can you also do a test with a strong launch for Basalt?
Nov. 06, 2011  1:45 PM
 
Hell has never been too bad for attack, tbh, there are simply always better options. Hell BD145R2F can KO Basalt BD145CS, even (though MB is a different matter, the height seems to prevent any contact other than BD145 on BD145).

To be honest, I'd think R145 would be more useful here, going by Dei's theory of concentrating the weight at certain points, and it's somewhat similar shape to Hell (if you squint and twist yer head just right).

But yeah, hell's biggest problem will always be the existence of far better wheels :\


Oh, and as usual when I see basalt bd145MB tests, could you test against Basalt bd145CS instead/as well, please. I think it'd do slightly better, ahah.

As for weak launch, I'm a bit fuzzy on the details because I kind of missed that, but with MB it seems like it could result in some balance issues and such. If/When you can test on CS, do at least try 100% and see if it improves things. Heck, even try full on launching on MB.
Nov. 06, 2011  2:45 PM
 
Weak launching the Basalt combo here is a big mistake. MB can give aggressive movement launched at 100% which would improve it's performance and allow it to score more KOs. By weak launching you are making it a sitting duck and artificially reducing it's performance.
Nov. 06, 2011  3:39 PM
 
Whatzzer yeah u can use Kerbecs instead n it looks like Hell nakedly is an extremley risky combo. Pinching_eyes
Nov. 06, 2011  3:45 PM
 
You only weak launch against opposite spin beys, what the hell?
Nov. 06, 2011  5:02 PM
 
(Nov. 06, 2011  3:45 PM)Dan Wrote: You only weak launch against opposite spin beys, what the hell?

That's what I thought, good to hear I'm not going senile just yet.
Nov. 06, 2011  6:56 PM
 
I'll try to get tests up with a full launch today. I just got back from the stores so I can swap out my r2f to a mint one. I've tested it with a full launch before and it was not much of a difference.
Nov. 06, 2011  7:54 PM
 
I'm going to look into this as well, and when I get a basalt/twisted, I'll post some tests. I'm hoping we have an actual viable counter to basalt this time!
Nov. 06, 2011  8:34 PM
 
(Nov. 06, 2011  7:54 PM)geminikid13 Wrote: I'm going to look into this as well, and when I get a basalt/twisted, I'll post some tests. I'm hoping we have an actual viable counter to basalt this time!

There are counters to Basalt, what are you talking about?
Nov. 06, 2011  10:18 PM
 
(Nov. 06, 2011  3:45 PM)Dan Wrote: You only weak launch against opposite spin beys, what the hell?

If you're trying to get more pure defense out of a rubber bottom where rubber is always making contact (ie aggressive CS, RF variants, RSF, RS, etc.), launching weaker does help against the same spin as well. Better grip is the only reason; think of it like doing a burnout.
Nov. 06, 2011  10:25 PM
 
Other than CS, you'd then just get outspun by, well, everything, basically.
Nov. 06, 2011  10:28 PM
 
No, it depends completely on the stamina of the individual combo. As an exaggerated example, if it was Basalt BD145RSF vs Dark Bull H145RF, and you launcher weaker with Basalt, Basalt would obviously outspin, as long as you don't launch basalt way too weak which would be dumb.
Nov. 06, 2011  10:45 PM
 
Not the best example, given basalt's imbalanced nature and not having the best solo spin times, and BD145's scraping thingo, for example. Phantom or scythe I can see though.

I guess I probably just interpreted it as "way too weak", but it still seems like an odd choice to me, though again, I'm not weak-launch savvy as yet.
Nov. 06, 2011  11:33 PM
 
For theses tests I launched basalt at full power so that it had a semi-aggressive movement. The only thing It really achieved was more double ko's....I found that, because it was near the tornado ridge, it was easier to ko. If you launch r2f at full power you should have no problem with "chasing" basalt around the stadium.

Hell H145R2F v.s. MF Basalt Bull BD145MB
Hell: 15/20 ( All KO)
Basalt: 5/20 ( 1 KO, 4 OS)

Hell win rate: %75

As soon as my new cs wears down, I'll do testing with basalt bull bd145cs. I suspect since the combo is right spin, it would have a little trouble; however I can't confirm nor deny this. The combo doesn't "tap-out" basalt, it flings it.

@th!nk, I did try out hell r145 but I didn't like it as much because r145 is slightly smaller than h145. It doesn't give the full track + metal grind this combo is really looking to utilize to the fullest extent.
Nov. 07, 2011  1:16 AM
 
(Nov. 06, 2011  8:34 PM)iBeyblader Wrote:
(Nov. 06, 2011  7:54 PM)geminikid13 Wrote: I'm going to look into this as well, and when I get a basalt/twisted, I'll post some tests. I'm hoping we have an actual viable counter to basalt this time!

There are counters to Basalt, what are you talking about?

I meant something that can have good rates against basalt, not be another basalt, and work against other beys also. Uncertain still kinda noobie, but it's the best explanation I can say...
(limited vocabulary, ok?!)
Nov. 07, 2011  1:46 AM
 
(Nov. 07, 2011  1:16 AM)geminikid13 Wrote:
(Nov. 06, 2011  8:34 PM)iBeyblader Wrote:
(Nov. 06, 2011  7:54 PM)geminikid13 Wrote: I'm going to look into this as well, and when I get a basalt/twisted, I'll post some tests. I'm hoping we have an actual viable counter to basalt this time!

There are counters to Basalt, what are you talking about?

I meant something that can have good rates against basalt, not be another basalt, and work against other beys also. Uncertain still kinda noobie, but it's the best explanation I can say...
(limited vocabulary, ok?!)

Every top tier Attack combo in the Metagame can counter Basalt without being chequed by other things. Stamina combos, too.

Basalt is no longer King of the Hill. Its propane and propane accessories blew up in its face.
Nov. 07, 2011  1:59 AM
 
(Nov. 07, 2011  1:46 AM)Hazel Wrote: Its propane and propane accessories blew up in its face.

lol... nice..

Yeah, Blitz, Vari, Phantom, Death can all 100% Basalt
Nov. 09, 2011  12:41 AM
 
As I expected.

Hell Aquario H145R2F v.s. MF Basalt Bull BD145CS
Hell Aquario: 2/20 (All KO)
Basalt Bull: 18/20 (6 KO/12 OS)

Hell Aquario win rate: 10%

Hell Aquario H145R2F v.s. MF Basalt Bull BD145RB
Hell Aquario: 1/20 (All KO)
Basalt Bull: 19/20 (2 KO/17 OS)

Hell Aquario win rate: 5%

Hell Aquario H145R2F v.s. MF Basalt Bull BD145RS
Hell Aquario: 0/20 (NONE)
Basalt Bull: 20/20 (7 KO,13 OS)

Hell Aquario win rate: 0%

Honestly, I tried an array of shots and all I got was down the drain performance. Really nothing was improving it, I should soon get my 230 tests too..

It's a bust.
Nov. 09, 2011  12:46 AM
 
I'll try to get Dakota (Galaxy4Ever) to test this. He's a beast with Hell Herculeo85RF (no Metal Faces) He's very fond of Hell as an attack wheel. On the other side, I dont think H145 suits better for a wheel like Hell...... IMO its GB145 and 85 track.
Nov. 09, 2011  2:51 AM
 
BBS you gotta launch much harder than you are currently... Are you able to KO basalt with MF Gravity Perseus CH120RF?? It takes similar launch power to that for this Hell combo to get the OP results
Nov. 09, 2011  3:40 AM
 
You have to be kidding me. I used both the plain BeyLauncher and a Rev-Up Launcher. I even used a DIY Power Launcher that could not stack up anything.

You have to realize that the statement that was said before still stands, "without BD145, Hell's naked".

I past way beyond the 20 required rounds, not once did I see anything overcasting what was shown here. Actually, next week I will try this with BD145 just to prove it.
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