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Hasbro Terminology on the Wiki - How shall we handle it?

Sep. 10, 2016  7:55 PM
 
A bit overdue, but it's time to open this up to discussion.

With the release of Hasbro Burst tops, it's now clear that the use of a different Burst mechanism and adjustments to some parts are in place. As we can see, Hasbro Burst tops use a slope system rather than teeth, and have some substantial weight changes as well.

Given these changes, it will become increasingly difficult to write about a part if the Hasbro and Takara-Tomy versions are different from each other, as it's likely that they will perform differently from a competitive aspect. So how do we approach this from an article writing perspective? I want to hear your thoughts and opinions on how you'd like to see this handled.


To clarify, the current changes will be going ahead:
  • Layers, Disks and Drivers will be completely renamed to Energy Layers, Forge Discs and Performance Tips, regardless of whether it's a Hasbro or Takara-Tomy version. Regardless of Burst mechanism, the parts structure is the same, and it makes no sense not to use the western terminology here.
  • Disks will be directly transferred, and Hasbro weights will be listed on the article. Disks have not received enough of a change to warrant considering separate articles at all, and remain largely the same otherwise.
  • Articles based on Disks and Drivers will include both the Hasbro and Takara-Tomy names in the title. For instance, "Disk - Spread" would become "Forge Disc - D06: Spread", and "Driver - Edge" would become "Performance Tip - TS03: Edge", to appeal to those who know both.


I'd like to hear your thoughts and opinions on how you'd like to see this happen. Everyone will definitely have their own preferences, but I'm totally open to everything at the moment as I want the best experience for both readers and editors.

It's worth noting that, as always, we still do lean towards using Hasbro terminology wherever possible. It works out better for SEO and it is more fan-friendly towards those just joining the fanbase from the western releases.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts! Thanks guys!
Sep. 10, 2016  8:02 PM
 
I like the new transitions to help Hasbro players. and how can i help the BeyWiki? because there are some articles that i would like to help write.
Sep. 10, 2016  8:05 PM
 
I'll have more to write on this later, but just FYI this in particular is an awesome solution:

Quote:Forge Disc - D06: Spread
Sep. 10, 2016  8:13 PM
 
I completely agree! Listing both differences for both companies would be much more convenient as for we might have viewers who are more familiar with Hasbro parts and such.

As for articles for Hasbro and Takara Tomy, I feel like we should have separate articles for Hasbro specifically. For instance, we have an article about "Storm Spriggran K.U." and then a separate article about its Hasbro counterpart. Perhaps a link through the Takara Tomy's counterpart would be sufficient. (especially under where there are links to different languages in the box)

That's pretty much it but overall, I think this is great so far. Smile
Sep. 10, 2016  8:14 PM
 
I don't think the models are generally different enough to justify having different articles for each, to be honest.
Sep. 10, 2016  8:17 PM
 
(Sep. 10, 2016  8:14 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: I don't think the models are generally different enough to justify having different articles for each, to be honest.

Well, IMO, I would have separate articles. We wouldn't want newcomers to be confused.
But of course, I respect your preferences.
Sep. 10, 2016  8:18 PM
 
The only thing I'm at least partially concerned about is how we'll go about differentiating the layers. Not only are their names different, but their performance is as well, as a direct result of the slope system. A layer rendered useless by virtue of their teeth (S2, I'm looking at you) might be viable in it's hasbro iteration.

I would say to give the Hasbro and Takara Tomy separate sections on the product's article and the layer's article, but that might lead to issues in terms of terminology ("What the heck is a Spryzen?")

Ninja'D by both Brad and Brisk. Wow, I'm a slow typer Tongue_out
Sep. 10, 2016  8:26 PM
 
(Sep. 10, 2016  8:18 PM)ToxicAtom Wrote: The only thing I'm at least partially concerned about is how we'll go about differentiating the layers. Not only are their names different, but their performance is as well, as a direct result of the slope system. A layer rendered useless by virtue of their teeth (S2, I'm looking at you) might be viable in it's hasbro iteration.

I would say to give the Hasbro and Takara Tomy separate sections on the product's article and the layer's article, but that might lead to issues in terms of terminology ("What the heck is a Spryzen?")

Ninja'D by both Brad and Brisk. Wow, I'm a slow typer Tongue_out

Haha, I think you put your opinion into perspective much more better than I did. xD
Sep. 10, 2016  8:34 PM
 
For the most part though, massive gameplay impacts are the exception, not the rule. Spryzen S2 is very different from Storm Spriggan; Spryzen to Spriggan, not so much. These are more akin to mold variations which we've usually handled as annotations in the same article. However, Hasbro descriptions could come first.

I'm just making my case like anyone else, so don't think this is up to me or anything lol. I'm prone to trust Mana's recommendations.
Sep. 10, 2016  8:53 PM
 
I certainly agree with everything said here. I'm not entirely sure that we need entirely new articles for the products themselves, as they're fundamentally the same product. Likewise, articles like "Victory Valkyrie .B.V" will eventually be renamed to their Hasbro names for simplicity, and those will be supported with Wiki Redirects that will take users searching the TT names to the correct article.

For parts articles; it might be that we resort to adding "(Hasbro)" or "(Takara-Tomy)" to the end of some articles (likely Parts articles) to denote the difference here.

Alternatively, we include information on both types in the same article, and split them with subheadings. This could end up presenting too much information to readers though, especially when they're trying to find something specific.

There are a number of ways to go about this, and I'd like to say MediaWiki is flexible enough for me to work most solutions in. I might need to use a sandbox Wiki to create a few examples to see if there's a style that appeals most to people, or just play about with possibilities.
Sep. 10, 2016  9:19 PM
 
So would Victory Valkyrie .B.V now be Valtryek V2 D0 ... I can't even remember those, seriously. But would we include those in the article title?
Sep. 10, 2016  9:23 PM
 
Just stick with Valtryek V2 for the title, imo.
Sep. 10, 2016  9:25 PM
 
(Sep. 10, 2016  9:23 PM)cosmicstriker Wrote: Just stick with Valtryek V2 for the title, imo.

But that's only a Layer.
Sep. 10, 2016  9:26 PM
 
(Sep. 10, 2016  9:19 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: So would Victory Valkyrie .B.V now be Valtryek V2 D0 ... I can't even remember those, seriously. But would we include those in the article title?

Oh just wait till the anime characters do part analysing, and then imagine them saying the numbers rather than part names LOL.
Sep. 10, 2016  9:31 PM
 
I would be super not surprised if they actually just call them by the Japanese names.
Sep. 10, 2016  9:46 PM
 
(Sep. 10, 2016  9:31 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: I would be super not surprised if they actually just call them by the Japanese names.

Considering their inconsistencies in CFB where they refer to the cores by their actual names when talked about seperately, that's what I expect too. I kind of hope it's referred to as the numbers for laughs.
Sep. 10, 2016  11:00 PM
 
(Sep. 10, 2016  9:25 PM)Bey Brad Wrote:
(Sep. 10, 2016  9:23 PM)cosmicstriker Wrote: Just stick with Valtryek V2 for the title, imo.

But that's only a Layer.

Even so, isn’t that what Hasbro is calling it on the front of their packaging? They don’t seem to highlight the names of their Forge Discs and Performance Tips anywhere on the packaging except for the back. They’re not event that prominently displayed in in the full view of complete tops in their app.


I’m also in the camp that thinks Hasbro Burst Beyblades ought to be getting separate articles from their Takara-Tomy counterparts. Despite the physical similarities between Takara-Tomy’s Layers/Drivers and Hasbro’s Energy Layers/Performance Tips, there are enough differences between them (different molds, names, visual elements, and locking mechanisms) that we’d might as well call them different parts altogether, IMO. Energy Layers have already been declared to be incompatible with Drivers, so putting the two brands’ parts together into one article will likely lead to some confusion.

Having separate articles for Burst tops between brands, rather than a section at the bottom of every Layer and Driver description addressing the mold differences between the brands, would not only allow us to use mostly the same descriptions for parts without having to directly compare them to the other brand's mold, but it would also allow for cleaner and more personalized articles for each company's releases. To keep the articles connected, we could do what Ranger Wiki already does, in that they have articles for each season of Power Rangers separate from their articles on the Super Sentai series that the PR series were based on, with links to the other in their respective articles.
Sep. 11, 2016  12:05 AM
 
Seconding Angry Face's argument. The new system, the incompatibility issues, the mould variations, these things don't make the parts fundamentally the same; they make them superficially so.

I'd also argue—though I don't think we'll get a lot of mileage out of it, so I'll just say it once and let you do as you will—that we keep the Japanese terminology for the Japanese Beyblades: you still get the SEO traffic for the Hasbro articles, you keep both sides of the English vs. Japanese name's debate happy and you avoid the tedious branding of parts when drawing comparison between both versions of a part (e.g. Hasbro Performance Tip and Takara-Tomy Performance Tip vs. Performance Tip and Driver). Forge Disc can be used everywhere if you like.
Sep. 11, 2016  12:46 AM
 
A fundamental element in this debate is actually what we plan to do in terms of formats. If we end up ever mixing both companies at tournaments, then we cannot keep the Japanese equivalents away from the more popular articles, because it would be unthinkable to let those names and particularities get ignored by people who would just search for the dub names. In that case, it would not even be enough to start the article with: "Valtryek is the Hasbro version of the original Japanese Beyblade Valkyrie." with a link to it.

Therefore, the first thing we need to establish is the competitive side.

Keep in mind that the Japanese articles, if separate, would be really less viewed.


I also like how there is a big discussion about this but I am one of the only ones actually writing articles and caring about Beyblade Wiki right now. When were you guys planning to help out hahah?
Sep. 11, 2016  1:49 AM
 
(Sep. 11, 2016  12:46 AM)Kai-V Wrote: I also like how there is a big discussion about this but I am one of the only ones actually writing articles and caring about Beyblade Wiki right now. When were you guys planning to help out hahah?

I opened up the discussion for readers and editors alike. Both have to deal with the change in the end, so it makes sense to hear from everyone.

Though I do understand the point about needing editors. I'm hoping streamlining this process will make it more appealing, but I'm afraid I'm not done there yet, haha.

I'm still interested in hearing everyone's opinions though, so keep them coming. It's definitely helping me get some ideas on how we should handle this situation.
Sep. 11, 2016  2:06 AM
 
Personally, I think you should do the DO6-Spread and TA-01 Accel. It makes sense and makes it easier to convey what type of tip you're talking about. The only tip difference is Variable but it has 3 different types, the reforge, the original, and the Hasbro variant.
Sep. 11, 2016  2:07 AM
 
If someone's willing to boss me around and give me a reasonable workload, I am willing to write some articles. Just please keep in mind all the other stuff I am working on. ;x
Sep. 11, 2016  2:45 AM
 
(Sep. 11, 2016  2:07 AM)Bey Brad Wrote: If someone's willing to boss me around and give me a reasonable workload, I am willing to write some articles. Just please keep in mind all the other stuff I am working on. ;x

It can just be about dumping observations of part performances sometimes, to verbalise how a piece works instead of having to rely on the vague common knowledge that x part is good, OK or bad. That is what the Fact Dépôt topic was for, but now not even many people are posting observations for new Burst parts at all anywhere, let alone in that thread.
Sep. 11, 2016  4:57 AM
 
Right before school started up I was in a Beywiki type of mood and wrote a whole bunch of drafts, including this one for the Spread Disk/D06. Translating it into Hasbro was not fun, but does it fit the guidelines you were looking for, @[~Mana~]?

I did a few others, and I'll probably post them relatively soon (TR145 at least should be up within the next week).
Sep. 11, 2016  8:14 AM
 
I really like the idea of calling it "Performance Tip TA01: Accel" ect.. I think there should be two texts for the Layers in an article instead of one. One for the Layer and the Energy Layer because the two variations perform different. I really want to help you with the Beyblade Wiki. I can translate the articles into German if you want because then we can attract even more Bladers from other countries.
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