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Genbull Genbull 90 WD

Jul. 12, 2014  10:47 PM
 
After months of desperately hoping that someone would discover a set-up capable of beating Duo and Dragooon, my prayers were answered. Honestly, I've never been a huge Genbull Genbull fan, but while I was messing around with the synchrom today, I discovered something magical Tongue_out_wink

I've adjusted this exact combination a few times, but the overall goal is to come up with a Genbull Genbull low track stamina combination that is capable of winning against multiple Dragooon and Duo set-ups. In order to find the best possible combination, Midnight and I will be doing testing with different stamina tips and track heights. The overall goal is to perfect this set-up to the point where it's capable of rivaling a wide range of top tier Standard stamina combinations.

Genbull Genbull 85 PD Testings: (Click to View)
Genbull Genbull 85 W2D Testings: (Click to View)
Genbull Genbull 85 WD Testings: (Click to View)
Genbull Genbull 85 D Testings: (Click to View)
Genbull Genbull 85 EWD Testings: (Click to View)

90 Testing (Click to View)

100 Testing (Click to View)

*Currently focusing on Genbull Genbull tests with tracks 85, 90, & 100 & comparative testing between WD and EWD*
Midnight and I will be collaborating on this combination and its tests, but additional work is always appreciated!
Jul. 12, 2014  10:59 PM
 
Generally, you should re-do ties.

I have a few test requests. Duo 230MB, Duo 230D, and Duo SA165EWD.
Jul. 12, 2014  11:01 PM
 
I didn't redo ties, as I feel they're important to show that the combo isn't necessarily perfect. If I re-did them, Genbull Genbull would have won 10/10. Not going to do a ton of tests, as I don't want to completely wear down my only PD, but I'm doing Duo Cancer 230 D right now.

Edit: Duo Cancer 230 D results are now in the OP
Jul. 13, 2014  3:47 AM
 
Nice tests! Seems like a good combo! It reminds me of a similar combo I was going to put up in December of last year which was Genbull Dragooon 100PD, but this seems a lot better!

Is there any way you can test against F230?
Jul. 13, 2014  3:50 AM
 
Yeah, this one is surprisingly awesome! I don't really want to use my orange F230 more than I have to, but if no one else has the parts, I can do it sometime soon.
Jul. 13, 2014  3:54 AM
 
(Jul. 13, 2014  3:50 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: Yeah, this one is surprisingly awesome! I don't really want to use my orange F230 more than I have to, but if no one else has the parts, I can do it sometime soon.

I'll test it for you tomorrow morning if you'd like Smile

It's actually really refreshing to see a new Standard combo after Limited was made aha.
Jul. 13, 2014  3:59 AM
 
That would be awesome! I may do a few rounds too, just to back it up Smile

Yeah, I love Limited but when it comes to trying out new combos, I prefer standard. Lots of variety with synchroms!
Jul. 13, 2014  4:14 AM
 
Ooh, LTSC!

I believe in low Track customs. Kudos to you, TSO. I shall test this next week when I return from summer camp.

On a side note, I'd try WD on this custom as well. Typically, the lower a custom is to the ground, the more it benefits from a wider Bottom (which would also provide extra fortification against Dragooon customs, including F230CF/GCF combinations).
Jul. 13, 2014  4:19 AM
 
Thanks! I'll try out WD, but I'm a little skeptical just because half the reason the combo works so well is PD's polished surface. I do, however, agree that WD is generally the best option for tracks this low, so we'll see how it goes. I'd do more testing right now, but I'm afraid I'll have to hold off until tomorrow for fear of waking the entire household.
Jul. 13, 2014  2:51 PM
 
Funny thing is, I was playing around with something quite similar a little while back, though the bottom was W2D.

I personally love the results on this combo, and what this was able to do to Dragoon. When I was playing around with Phantom_85/90W2D at one point, it was able to do relatively well against Dragoon, because of its height, though I wouldn't know how PD would make a difference towards this.

On the topic of this combo going against Dragoon_F230(G)CF, I have plenty of faith in this combo being able to do well against it, haha. Last September, there was one tournament in Toronto where 1234beyblade's Phantom_ Low Track EWD/D? was able to do fairly decent against Dragoon_F230CF, because of its low height.

Here's the video, if anybody would like to see what it was able to do. I'm sure PD wouldn't have a problem pulling off what it did, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcr0N3GNEME (in this case, the only relivant scenes relating towards this setup would be 0:34 - 0:43).

As I don't own a PD myself, I'd still be willing to make benchmarks with a D or a mint WD, in comparison to the results people get using PD. As there are only three tests up right now, I'd be willing to do tests when I come home from my dad's later tonight.

On another note, I came across something that may not be considered right:

Quote:Genbull Genbull 85 PD vs Killerken Dragooon SA165 EWD
Dragooon wins: 0/10 (0% win rate)
Genbull wins: 6/10 (60% win rate)
Ties: 4/10 (40% win rate)

Ties are supposed to be redone, correct? You can still optionally list how many ties there were, though.
Jul. 13, 2014  11:01 PM
 
Looks interesting.

Can you test against Duo SA165 EWD?
Jul. 13, 2014  11:44 PM
 
midnight Some benchmark tests with WD would be nice. I did a few rounds & it does pretty well, though not quite as well as PD in my opinion.

Leone19 I could, though I have a feeling the results would be the same as my Duo Cancer W145 WD tests. I'll do a little testing momentarily.
Jul. 13, 2014  11:59 PM
 
(Jul. 13, 2014  11:44 PM)The Supreme One Wrote: midnight Some benchmark tests with WD would be nice. I did a few rounds & it does pretty well, though not quite as well as PD in my opinion.

You're probably right. Are there any other tips you'd like me to add on to this variation, aside from both PD and WD, possibly EWD?

I'll have the results up later tonight, either or tomorrow morning. Smile

(Jul. 13, 2014  3:47 AM)LMAO Wrote: It reminds me of a similar combo I was going to put up in December of last year which was Genbull Dragooon 100PD,

This kind of makes me think about how Duo_100PD would work, haha.
Jul. 14, 2014  12:11 AM
 
Perhaps EWD as well? That would be awesome!

Just did 10 rounds with Duo Cancer SA165 EWD, & unfortunately the results weren't all that great. Redid a few Duo Cancer W145 WD matches with a mint WD and it looks like the WD I was using before was just too worn, causing Duo to lose each round (that or my PD is just wearing down, but I think it's the former)

On the bright side, I did a few more tests with a new WD on Genbull Genbull instead of PD & I think that might actually be the better option. It would be great if I could get some tests with both from other people though, just to confirm that WD works the best.
Jul. 14, 2014  12:20 AM
 
(Jul. 14, 2014  12:11 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: Perhaps EWD as well? That would be awesome!

Just did 10 rounds with Duo Cancer SA165 EWD, & unfortunately the results weren't all that great. Redid a few Duo Cancer W145 WD matches with a mint WD and it looks like the WD I was using before was just too worn, causing Duo to lose each round (that or my PD is just wearing down, but I think it's the former)

On the bright side, I did a few more tests with a new WD on Genbull Genbull instead of PD & I think that might actually be the better option. It would be great if I could get some tests with both from other people though, just to confirm that WD works the best.

You didn't even try any other tips? ...
Jul. 14, 2014  12:40 AM
 
Huh? I used a worn WD for my Duo Cancer W145 WD tests, but didn't realize that something was up until I saw the results for Duo Cancer SA165 EWD, which should have gotten more or less the same results. Found a mint WD & tried out Genbull Genbull 85 WD against Duo Cancer SA165 EWD & Genbull did much better. It would really help to have someone else's tests to confirm, but I'm starting to think now that WD is the better choice. The difference between the results I got with worn vs mint was huge.
...which is basically what I said in my last post, but I suppose I didn't explain it clearly enough.
Jul. 14, 2014  1:36 AM
 
(Jul. 14, 2014  12:11 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: Perhaps EWD as well? That would be awesome!

Just did 10 rounds with Duo Cancer SA165 EWD, & unfortunately the results weren't all that great. Redid a few Duo Cancer W145 WD matches with a mint WD and it looks like the WD I was using before was just too worn, causing Duo to lose each round (that or my PD is just wearing down, but I think it's the former)

Meaning that Duo did better?

I'll try testing with WD later on.
Jul. 14, 2014  2:19 AM
 
No, I meant that you didn't try out any other tips, except PD.
Jul. 14, 2014  2:27 AM
 
(Jul. 14, 2014  2:19 AM)Echizen Wrote: No, I meant that you didn't try out any other tips, except PD.

Despite it originally being Genbull Genbull 85PD alone, wouldn't it still be good to experiment with other tips, to see whether, or whether not a different tip would be able to better than PD?

Edit: Nevermind.
Jul. 14, 2014  2:36 AM
 
(Jul. 14, 2014  2:27 AM)~Midnight~ Wrote:
(Jul. 14, 2014  2:19 AM)Echizen Wrote: No, I meant that you didn't try out any other tips, except PD.

Despite it originally being Genbull Genbull 85PD alone, wouldn't it still be good to experiment with other tips, to see whether, or whether not a different tip would be able to better than PD?

That's what I was saying. I'm assuming she didn't do that.
Jul. 14, 2014  2:40 AM
 
I tried PD, W2D, WD, & a little with EWD before posting this thread. As I said before, the WD I originally used to test with was worn, so my results were better for PD.

Edit because I'm not going to start this conversation in a combination thread:
I have like 5 or 6 WDs. Some of them are more worn than others. A couple are mint.
At first I used a worn one, but then I switched to a mint one. There was a big difference.

Not trying to be rude, it's just that I explained this a couple times already & the conversation is a little irrelevant to the testing thread :p
Jul. 14, 2014  2:44 AM
 
Then how'd you get better results with PD? If WD is better now, it still should've been better then too.
Jul. 14, 2014  3:01 AM
 
I don't completely know if I'm stating the obvious here, but this might lose to 200-230 synchroms with low rotational recoil, such as Girago/Genbull _____ E230MB destabilizers, but testing to confirm would be great.
Also, Duo 230TB should outclass Duo 230D, so testing against the former, which has better precession, would give Genbull Genbull 85PD/WD a chance to be on the list. Assusming that you have 2 TB to spare.
Important side note: Can Genbull stay upright when not spinning or right itself back up when tipped on its side on both PD and WD?
Jul. 14, 2014  3:11 AM
 
I can test against E230 MB & possibly 230 TB sometime soon.
What do you mean by stay upright when not spinning? Because it's such a low track combo, Genbull Genbull has relatively low recoil & doesn't get off-balance until the end of the match. Once it starts to wobble, it can usually go a little while before touching the stadium floor, but it isn't like a Dragooon BGrin combo which sometimes wobbles but is righted upon making contact with the opposing bey, if that's what you mean.
Jul. 14, 2014  4:23 AM
 
(Jul. 14, 2014  3:11 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: I can test against E230 MB & possibly 230 TB sometime soon.
What do you mean by stay upright when not spinning? Because it's such a low track combo, Genbull Genbull has relatively low recoil & doesn't get off-balance until the end of the match. Once it starts to wobble, it can usually go a little while before touching the stadium floor, but it isn't like a Dragooon BGrin combo which sometimes wobbles but is righted upon making contact with the opposing bey, if that's what you mean.

Hm, so the lower Genbull would touch the stadium floor at zero-spinrate? In that case, does WD provide better winrates against Dragooon spin-equalizers? This is surely an interesting combination, and could be my most used if it gets on the tier list. Always loved LTSC, and now someone's actually testing a synchrom on PD! It's all getting exciting. XD
9999th side note: Has any other chrome wheel combination been tried, such as Killerken, Girago or Reviser as subs on the bottom or top? Most importantly Killerken, and maybe Girago, because they both have grinding ability, and the former having higher Defence and LAD then Genbull (I believe) and the latter having low rotational recoil when not having contact with the opponent.
10000th (jk) side note: It would be good to know whether the extra stability WD provides does not sacrifice any pure stamina that PD may give.
1st (?) side note: If general physics applies, MSF-L should boost the rotational recoil resistance. Comparative testing with that would be great too.
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