Forge Disc - Drake (Dr)

-2 Dragon head design
-Focuses weight on 2 sides, allegedly increasing performance of attack layers with 2 main contact points
-Aligning weight with contact point not proven to result in better attack power significantly (citation needed)
-Weighs at 25.5 to 26.6 grams
-Easy to scrape, LAD is nonexistent
-10 and 0 can reach similar weight with frames, along with less scrape risk. 00 with frame, Blitz, Sting is heavier. Around has similar weight with less scrape risk.
-Recommended for collection only due to scrape risk and more favorable disc options
(Aug. 15, 2019  11:13 AM)eigerblade Wrote: -2 Dragon head design
-Focuses weight on 2 sides, allegedly increasing performance of attack layers with 2 main contact points
-Aligning weight with contact point not proven to result in better attack power significantly (citation needed)
-Weighs at 25.5 to 26.6 grams
-Easy to scrape, LAD is nonexistent
-10 and 0 can reach similar weight with frames, along with less scrape risk. 00 with frame, Blitz, Sting is heavier. Around has similar weight with less scrape risk.
-Recommended for collection only due to scrape risk and more favorable disc options

Pretty sure the 2nd point is false. Why did some people use zenith over even something slightly heavier like 0bump at time of cho z valkrie's release?
(Aug. 15, 2019  1:44 PM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote:
(Aug. 15, 2019  11:13 AM)eigerblade Wrote: -2 Dragon head design
-Focuses weight on 2 sides, allegedly increasing performance of attack layers with 2 main contact points
-Aligning weight with contact point not proven to result in better attack power significantly (citation needed)
-Weighs at 25.5 to 26.6 grams
-Easy to scrape, LAD is nonexistent
-10 and 0 can reach similar weight with frames, along with less scrape risk. 00 with frame, Blitz, Sting is heavier. Around has similar weight with less scrape risk.
-Recommended for collection only due to scrape risk and more favorable disc options

Pretty sure the 2nd point is false. Why did some people use zenith over even something slightly heavier like 0bump at time of cho z valkrie's release?

I keep track of combos in the Winning Combos thread and there are no ChoZ Valkyrie combos that used Zenith. There's not a lot of ChoZ Valkyries on the list in the first place, but I believe that points to another discrepancy between Wiki theory and actual tournament results.

I haven't kept track of GT combos in detail, but I am quite sure you won't see Drake disc being used with Zwei or Judgment, both popular attack layers with 2 main contact points. I guess if you really want to, 10 and 00 both have their weight concentrated on 2 sides as well, and with frames they will be heavier with less scrape risk so Drake is still outclassed.

In my opinion, simple sheer weight should be prioritized over "aligning disc with contact points" for attack combos. It may be needed if the disc or frame would hinder or slightly reduce the contact point protrusions, but I don't see that happening with newer layers at all.

The only exception would be for combos with an unbalanced gimmick like Sieg Xcalibur, but that is not about aligning contact points and more about focusing weight on one side.
I have noticed that the Drake Disk scrapes a little bit when used on a Quick' combo with a tilt-launch. I have been told that it sticks to the Judgement Layer Base like Blitz, and the contact points line up. A Judgement combo with the Drake Disk will have a smaller Burst risk than Blitz due to being lighter, but it will have less overall Attack power.
(Aug. 15, 2019  6:18 PM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: I have noticed that the Drake Disk scrapes a little bit when used on a Quick' combo with a tilt-launch. I have been told that it sticks to the Judgement Layer Base like Blitz, and the contact points line up. A Judgement combo with the Drake Disk will have a smaller Burst risk than Blitz due to being lighter, but it will have less overall Attack power.
Drake might be better due to Blitz’s shape not having great synergy with the Judgement layer base’s 2 sided design.
(Aug. 16, 2019  3:24 AM)Dash Driver Wrote:
(Aug. 15, 2019  6:18 PM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: I have noticed that the Drake Disk scrapes a little bit when used on a Quick' combo with a tilt-launch. I have been told that it sticks to the Judgement Layer Base like Blitz, and the contact points line up. A Judgement combo with the Drake Disk will have a smaller Burst risk than Blitz due to being lighter, but it will have less overall Attack power.
Drake might be better due to Blitz’s shape not having great synergy with the Judgement layer base’s 2 sided design.

It's really just up to the person. I can also imagine people defaulting to a painted 00 with a Frame like Dagger or Bump because it provides a lot of weight and also synergizes well with Judgement's shape.
(Aug. 16, 2019  3:59 AM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote:
(Aug. 16, 2019  3:24 AM)Dash Driver Wrote: Drake might be better due to Blitz’s shape not having great synergy with the Judgement layer base’s 2 sided design.

It's really just up to the person. I can also imagine people defaulting to a painted 00 with a Frame like Dagger or Bump because it provides a lot of weight and also synergizes well with Judgement's shape.
It really does.
(Aug. 16, 2019  3:24 AM)Dash Driver Wrote:
(Aug. 15, 2019  6:18 PM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: A Judgment combo with Drake Disk will have a smaller Burst risk than Blitz due to being lighter, but it will have less overall Attack power.
Drake might be better due to Blitz’s shape not having great synergy with the Judgement layer base’s 2 sided design.

Again, I don't think "synergy" or "aligning weight" is as impactful as you believe.. Blitz and 0 is still the top most used disc with Judgment, and not a single Drake seen being used in the winning list since June. 

"Synergy" or Aligning weight is an overhyped concept that has very minimum practical benefits, if there is even any, compared to the tried and true physics of being heavier. Unless Drake is proven to be significantly tighter than Blitz or 0, I'd very much rather take the extra weight, and increased stamina of Blitz instead of Drake.

If it is possible for you to align the weight without compromising other aspects too heavily, then it is fine. Dagger was often used with Dead Hades even if it is a lighter frame, for example.

In the context of this thread, Drake is simply outclassed since there are heavier and less scrape-risk disc and frame choices that can also align with 2 sided attack layers
(Aug. 16, 2019  4:14 AM)eigerblade Wrote:
(Aug. 16, 2019  3:24 AM)Dash Driver Wrote: Drake might be better due to Blitz’s shape not having great synergy with the Judgement layer base’s 2 sided design.

Again, I don't think "synergy" or "aligning weight" is as impactful as you believe.. Blitz and 0 is still the top most used disc with Judgment, and not a single Drake seen being used in the winning list since June. 

"Synergy" or Aligning weight is an overhyped concept that has very minimum practical benefits, if there is even any, compared to the tried and true physics of being heavier. Unless Drake is proven to be significantly tighter than Blitz or 0, I'd very much rather take the extra weight, and increased stamina of Blitz instead of Drake.

If it is possible for you to align the weight without compromising other aspects too heavily, then it is fine. Dagger was often used with Dead Hades even if it is a lighter frame, for example.

In the context of this thread, Drake is simply outclassed since there are heavier and less scrape-risk disc and frame choices that can also align with 2 sided attack layers

Yeah, I think the aligning thing should probably be discussed more along the lines of Layer Weights lining up with contact points on the Layer Bases, but there has to be some kind of effect when you align the contact points with the heavier parts of a Disk. It's just so hard to test because it's impossible to replicate the beginning of a battle precisely enough to see a significant difference in performance.
(Aug. 16, 2019  4:14 AM)eigerblade Wrote:
(Aug. 16, 2019  3:24 AM)Dash Driver Wrote: Drake might be better due to Blitz’s shape not having great synergy with the Judgement layer base’s 2 sided design.

Again, I don't think "synergy" or "aligning weight" is as impactful as you believe.. Blitz and 0 is still the top most used disc with Judgment, and not a single Drake seen being used in the winning list since June. 

"Synergy" or Aligning weight is an overhyped concept that has very minimum practical benefits, if there is even any, compared to the tried and true physics of being heavier. Unless Drake is proven to be significantly tighter than Blitz or 0, I'd very much rather take the extra weight, and increased stamina of Blitz instead of Drake.

If it is possible for you to align the weight without compromising other aspects too heavily, then it is fine. Dagger was often used with Dead Hades even if it is a lighter frame, for example.

In the context of this thread, Drake is simply outclassed since there are heavier and less scrape-risk disc and frame choices that can also align with 2 sided attack layers
If Cho-Z Valkyrie with the wings popped out uses Blitz, it’s more effective than if it used 00 because the disc concentrates weight at the contact points. Otherwise, it’s not really effective.
(Aug. 16, 2019  1:07 PM)Dash Driver Wrote: If Cho-Z Valkyrie with the wings popped out uses Blitz, it’s more effective than if it used 00 because the disc concentrates weight at the contact points. Otherwise, it’s not really effective.

1. We're not discussing Blitz
2. ChoZ Valkyrie works well with Blitz, but so does other attack layers including Judgment and Zwei. Blitz works great for attack mainly because of its good weight, so its not directly outclassed by 0 or 00 with frames (unlike Drake).
3. Zenith would be a better disc to mention. It was a triangular disc released with ChoZ Valkyrie. Its supposed to have perfect synergy but records prove otherwise. It was never used with ChoZ Valkyrie due to being too light 
4. Discs 00, 0, and 10 is highly effective with ChoZ Valkyrie.
5. I already mentioned before that aligning weight is a decent idea as long as it does not sacrifice too much weight, stamina, and/or LAD. It is not the number one thing you should prioritize because its effect is minimal at best.
(Aug. 16, 2019  2:17 PM)eigerblade Wrote:
(Aug. 16, 2019  1:07 PM)Dash Driver Wrote: If Cho-Z Valkyrie with the wings popped out uses Blitz, it’s more effective than if it used 00 because the disc concentrates weight at the contact points. Otherwise, it’s not really effective.

1. We're not discussing Blitz
2. ChoZ Valkyrie works well with Blitz, but so does other attack layers including Judgment and Zwei. Blitz works great for attack mainly because of its good weight. so its not directly outclassed by 0 or 00 with frames (unlike Drake). Zenith would be a better disc to mention. It was never used despite being a triangular disc. 
3. 00, 0, and 10 is highly effective with ChoZ Valkyrie.
4. I already mentioned before that aligning weight is a decent idea as long as it does not sacrifice too much weight, stamina, and/or LAD. It is not the number one thing you should prioritize because its effect is minimal at best.
I know you weren’t discussing Blitz, but you were discussing synergy, and CzV+Blitz falls in that subject. Sorry if you were talking about something else, but I thought you were talking about synergy.
(Aug. 16, 2019  2:23 PM)Dash Driver Wrote: I know you weren’t discussing Blitz, but you were discussing synergy, and CzV+Blitz falls in that subject. Sorry if you were talking about something else, but I thought you were talking about synergy.

Its fine. I'm just trying to avoid us getting sidetracked with ChoZ Valkyrie and triangular discs.

I am talking about "synergy", but mostly about how people mistake it as THE number one thing to look for instead of more important aspects.
(Aug. 16, 2019  4:14 AM)eigerblade Wrote:
(Aug. 16, 2019  3:24 AM)Dash Driver Wrote: Drake might be better due to Blitz’s shape not having great synergy with the Judgement layer base’s 2 sided design.

Again, I don't think "synergy" or "aligning weight" is as impactful as you believe.. Blitz and 0 is still the top most used disc with Judgment, and not a single Drake seen being used in the winning list since June. 

"Synergy" or Aligning weight is an overhyped concept that has very minimum practical benefits, if there is even any, compared to the tried and true physics of being heavier. Unless Drake is proven to be significantly tighter than Blitz or 0, I'd very much rather take the extra weight, and increased stamina of Blitz instead of Drake.

If it is possible for you to align the weight without compromising other aspects too heavily, then it is fine. Dagger was often used with Dead Hades even if it is a lighter frame, for example.

In the context of this thread, Drake is simply outclassed since there are heavier and less scrape-risk disc and frame choices that can also align with 2 sided attack layers

Well the only reason we use Blitz and 0(specifically the colored one) is because they stick to the Judgement layer base. So I don't think it's about the weight necessarily to begin with.
(Aug. 16, 2019  5:14 PM)Armor Wrote:
(Aug. 16, 2019  4:14 AM)eigerblade Wrote: Again, I don't think "synergy" or "aligning weight" is as impactful as you believe.. Blitz and 0 is still the top most used disc with Judgment, and not a single Drake seen being used in the winning list since June. 

"Synergy" or Aligning weight is an overhyped concept that has very minimum practical benefits, if there is even any, compared to the tried and true physics of being heavier. Unless Drake is proven to be significantly tighter than Blitz or 0, I'd very much rather take the extra weight, and increased stamina of Blitz instead of Drake.

If it is possible for you to align the weight without compromising other aspects too heavily, then it is fine. Dagger was often used with Dead Hades even if it is a lighter frame, for example.

In the context of this thread, Drake is simply outclassed since there are heavier and less scrape-risk disc and frame choices that can also align with 2 sided attack layers

Well the only reason we use Blitz and 0(specifically the colored one) is because they stick to the Judgement layer base. So I don't think it's about the weight necessarily to begin with.

For Judgment, yes. The burst stopper is the main advantage it has, and fortunately 0 and Blitz, both very good discs, fit tightly on Judgment.

That is still irrelevant to the "synergy" argument, since it doesn't explain the lack of Zenith being used with ChoZ Valkyries, or Drake with Zwei.