@Th!nk The reason E230 is good, is the height difference from the tip to the disk vs the height difference from the tip to the disk on bd145. E230 is much larger.

This makes it incredibly difficult for attackers to make full metal contact. If the e230 custom gets knocked on to a slope, it is very rare to see a knock out, because the attack bey would make disk contact.

The attacker needs to get a large hit while e230 is in the center of the stadium to ko it.

And even that is difficult because most 145RF attackers get caught in the gap between the metal wheel and the disk, giving them no solid hit. Partial on metal and partially on plastic. Its like a cushion.

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I understand that now, I did do some reading after making that post, but again, second part of my post: wrote that thar for a reason and I'd be damned if anyone's actually addressed it. Shame, because it was actually my main point.

BEYRULEZ #127:
Type that is focussed on beating defense > gimmicky attacker that only beats a few fairly uncommon opponents.

Do you guys want me to go back and bold everything from (and including) "but I don't have E230 to verify" for emphasis? Seriously....

Sorry to react so harshly, but I'm a little tired at this point.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

The Gil effect is when the beefy ring is bumpy and rough enough to be able to wear down opponents.

The Gil effect is when the beefy ring is bumpy and rough enough to be able to wear down opponents.

So you've named this after a wheel that isn't even that great for it (though I did honestly appreciate the use of "beefy", it's a good word.)

It also doesn't account for the recoil that the beyblade with the clear wheel will suffer as a result, which, unless a clear wheel has a design that has a greater effect on the opponent than the user (Escolpio, for example), is disadvantageous.
Maybe it does work with gil but last I checked flash was a brute force attack wheel with little use otherwise, so wearing down opponents isn't that useful, while phoenix may do it, there would be many better wheels. I actually played around with phoenix for those same reasons back when I started, but there are much better alternatives (the classic destabilising clear wheels, Cancer and to a lesser extent Bull, do this more effectively than bumps etc). On a wheel like flash which not only has pretty poor stamina and high recoil even in stamina mode, and also covers the clear wheel, really, it's wasteful.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

-.-
Gil was the first energy ring which was found that could do it right, plus did you ever think that the fusion wheel doesn't need to get hit so the bey can win. No you didn't. Now I'm off to street battle, need 12 more wins until I got 100 energy ring charm. (bit off topic that was).

-.-
Gil was the first energy ring which was found that could do it right, plus did you ever think that the fusion wheel doesn't need to get hit so the bey can win. No you didn't. Now I'm off to street battle, need 12 more wins until I got 100 energy ring charm. (bit off topic that was).

Don't presuppose what I think. I was around when destabilising clear wheels was a HUGE trend. I used gravity and LLD for similar things. So yeah, I have considered it, but Flash is not the wheel for that given the big metal bumps on top that make metal-on-metal contact that much more likely for it, unlike something like, oh, I dunno, Duo, where the CW sits entirely on top of the metal wheel.

And no, Gil wasn't, not for this community. Plenty of wheels have done it before and do it better or have similar effects in different ways and your make-believe terms and so on should be kept to yourself, rather than spending three posts explaining what they actually mean and wasting everyone's time. This is not the first time you've posted similar things (and never with any real testing to back it up), and it is something that needs to stop.

Curious, are you actually bothering to read more than the first sentence of my posts, or are you just wasting everyone's time?

I don't know what the latter part of your post even means, but it is entirely irrelevant to this discussion from everything I can make of it.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

The Gil effect is when the beefy ring is bumpy and rough enough to be able to wear down opponents.

Do not use official-sounding terms that mean nothing to absolutely anyone here but you.

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Some manner of Octopus.

would zurrafa and eagle work well with flash since they are oval shaped

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wolves the ultamate hunters... Alpha wolf of team lupus!!!!!!! http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Team-Lupus

would zurrafa and eagle work well with flash since they are oval shaped

If you had used the search function, you would find that this post would pretty much answer your question.

and thats why i came here to ask that

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wolves the ultamate hunters... Alpha wolf of team lupus!!!!!!! http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Team-Lupus

You don't get it do you?...

Uwik is saying that if you had searched before asking the question, you wouldn't have needed to ask at all. If you have a question, try searching for an answer and then ask if you don't find anything about your question.

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"In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations. The new needs friends. Last night, I experienced something new: an extraordinary meal from a singularly unexpected source. To say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking is a gross understatement. They have rocked me to my core. In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau's famous motto, "Anyone can cook." But I realize, only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist; but a great artist can come from anywhere."

-Anton Ego/Peter O'Toole (1932-2013)

I've read the thread and while I agree I have observed the best and most consistent results with d125/s130mf on flash I don't agree zurafa is a bad cw choice.
Using a tachometer I can reliably launch a flash s130mf combination at 4k rpms give or take 150 and measure the rate of decline in intervals over a given period of time. Zurafa on flash in its attack configuration has a 5-7% advantage over escolpio. I know I'm measuring stamina on an attack top and clearly this doesn't account for contact with a foreign object but the argument that zurafa is a poorer choice than escolpio based on weight distribution is absolutely a debatable argument.

I see your point, but the problem is is that the weight distribution portion is judged based on the effectiveness of the collisions. Zurafa, while having a nice shape and being able to counterbalance the weight distribution of Flash for longer spin times, is not nearly as conducive for smash as Escolpio is. Thus, Escolpio is preferred for those reasons in terms of distribution.

I have yet to own a Flash, but I'd like to say that I know enough about it.

---

"In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations. The new needs friends. Last night, I experienced something new: an extraordinary meal from a singularly unexpected source. To say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking is a gross understatement. They have rocked me to my core. In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau's famous motto, "Anyone can cook." But I realize, only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist; but a great artist can come from anywhere."

-Anton Ego/Peter O'Toole (1932-2013)

@Darph Vlader: It's actually quite interesting to see weight distribution of Clear Wheels in application being tested via solo spins (which, I assumed, is what you did here). I agree with you on the sole reason that Escolpio is better than Giraffe solely based on weight distribution is debatable to say the least. As a matter of fact, contact points would be more important in attack types rather than weight distribution, since the stamina of attack types are quite low for the most part. Having said that, Giraffe is actually one of the preferred Clear Wheel for attack types in some Asian meta, possibly due to the abundance of mid to high tracks for the opponents.

Th!nk's basic breakdown of Clear Wheels for Flash is of course to be taken with a grain of salt. It remains as a nice starting point for bladers if they choose to use Flash. What we choose to to customize Flash with from that point onward varies from one meta to another and for many other reasons. It still is quite a nice list to start off with.

It is up to personal opinion, of course, however the point of my observations on weight distribution was focussing the weight on contact points, which as Ga said, won't produce a higher spin time for a wheel like flash. However, it should lessen the loss of RPM and speed on impacts, which will probably work out better in the long run, as Flash suffers from fairly high recoil (verging on a "OHKO" nature), and has terrible spin time anyway. It's also worth mentioning that movement speed is preferred over RPM for Smash Attack.

The other factor I took into account though (well, I focussed on it primarily), was how well each clear wheel exposed the metal on flash, or more accurately, how little it obscured it. Because of the design of flash, most clear wheels with "opposite" distribution will also protrude past it's contact points. Of course, this is only relevant when the top side of flash is making contact, but you must also consider that with a curved stadium etc, this is more common than you might expect.

Again, I'd recommend people try them for themselves, and if you don't face many tall tracks, in the end it may be negligible anyway. That said, people were asking "what's a good clear wheel for flash" or "is this cw good for flash" so I threw together a list of all of those I had, based on the criteria I described in that post.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

The escolpio wheel I have access to is a black hasbro from a poison scorpio and sits at what is about 30 degrees off center on flash. Maybe this wheel is a lemon, I don't have another to compare it to.
More relevant is that this is a very light and small radius wheel. Flash is like a double ended baseball bat. Putting escolpio on it is like putting a batting glove on. If your sole objective is to put a cw on that is going to stay out of the way and let the bat do it's job escolpio does that admirably. It has little to no effect on flash's centrifugal force. On the other hand Zurafa at least has some ability to provide additional momentum, is aligned on primary axis and from what I can tell does not get in the way when flash contacts a top with a tall track.
I'm not arguing in favor of Zurafa or against escolpio. Someone asked a question and multiple people responded harshly that the question had already been answered. I'm simply suggesting that maybe it was still a legitimate question.
On another subject, mf has been suggested as a successful tip on flash and several times people have asked for more testing using mf. I know the "solo spin test" I did isn't the preferred method of testing but I can measure and provide consistent rpms and when measuring the values of a top rpms should be a required value.
I can spin flash with no cw on mf at about 5k rpms. With the same force I can spin flash with no cw on rf at about 4200 rpms (I can do this with an electric motor and don't have to depend on the inconsistency of manpower). Or I can spin them both using different force at about 4k rpms and measure their rate of decline. The rf tip provides friction which supplies traction which provides force and prevents recoil. The advantages I'm not debating. The mf tip allows for greater acceleration and retains greater speed for a longer duration. Contact with a foreign object typically has a greater effect on rpms on rf than it does on mf although the rate of decline changes following the point of contact and mf suffers much more than rf does.
Let me go back to the double ended baseball bat analogy I made earlier. Anyone who's ever swung a baseball bat or a golf club competitively knows acceleration is greater than force. An home run and a ohko are pretty comparable. I would suggest that mf is successful with flash because based on my observations they both excel providing the greatest first impact although they both tend to suffer more following an unsuccessful first impact.

At >4,5k RPM, it's extremely difficult to retain a good flower pattern. If you're just generalizing that acceleration is better than control. There are other bottoms out there that are faster than MF, given the same force, namely (XF, WF, etc).

Traction is as important as well. Generally the amount of smash generated is somewhat proportional to the recoil it suffers. Even with RF, upon impact, Flash also gets thrown off in the other direction. With MF, it's a whole lot easier to be tossed around and bouncing of walls, which in the end, depletes its stamina anyway.

I can guarantee with confidence that most tournament participants launch their attack types with less than 4k RPM in general, which is more than enough for an OHKOs or early KOs with Flash.

On a side note, may I ask how you measured the 4k/5k rpm on an MF/RF with a tachometer? Given the nature of aggressive movements of the bottoms.

The control portion of the testing process I'm not so interested in. Control is going to vary widely based on the skills of the individual. I'm more interested in the potential of individual parts on the flash wheel, that is how you customize your tops, I just came up with a different scientific method.
I'm not suggesting acceleration is better than control, I'm offering a new perspective on why mf might work well on flash when it hasn't worked well on previous tops. Variares for example has several contact points. The faster it turns the less time, or opportunity it has for each point to make contact. Flash's fewer contact points have more opportunity at higher speeds and mf is a more successful tip on flash than it is on variares.
I don't have an xf, I have a wf but have never liked the tip so I have not compared it to mf.
Traction I mentioned above, and I agree. I'm not disputing the abilities of rf.
I agree, 4k seems to be the upper end to control many of these aggressive tips in a 12" arena. Some of the stable tips, stamina and defense tips I can keep stationary at much higher speeds. To compare mf and rf I had to keep them stationary and the faster I can spin them the more consistent I can keep the results. So I took them out of a 12" arena and put them into an environment I could control them in.