With an MSF. Could you test both ways? That would be great, and I don't exactly know, the shape is interesting, and I haven't seen test for it.
Dragooon Discussion
![[Image: jTdFIBh.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/jTdFIBh.jpg)
(Aug. 08, 2012 1:15 AM)Ingulit Wrote: Don't tell me you're surprised by these results at this point
This all seems pretty standard Synchrom + BD145 results, actually, with the benefit of Left Spin. Flash fares really poorly against Synchroms in my experience ... just bounces off. And the BD145 + attack tip is standard anti-attack, so not surprising at all. Interesting tests. But basically Synchrom + BD145 is just sick.
![[Image: signature-wbo.jpg]](https://www.trymykungfu.com/beyblades/signature-wbo.jpg)
I don't think you're giving the fact that it spins left enough credit, as while other Synchroms have pitiful stamina, Dragooon actually has a fighting chance to OS just about everything thanks to its spin steal. That is a MASSIVE improvement over standard Synchroms, one that should not be downplayed.
Also, though I may be nitpicking, I wouldn't say using Metal Flat is "Anti-Attack" at all. The point of standard anti-attack customs is to abuse the defense of a Rubber Flat variant on top of its own heavy weight. Using Metal Flat is something different entirely, since you are getting absolutely no help defensively from the tip. This is more comparable to MF-H LDG BD145MF, something I certainly wouldn't call anti-attack.
Also, though I may be nitpicking, I wouldn't say using Metal Flat is "Anti-Attack" at all. The point of standard anti-attack customs is to abuse the defense of a Rubber Flat variant on top of its own heavy weight. Using Metal Flat is something different entirely, since you are getting absolutely no help defensively from the tip. This is more comparable to MF-H LDG BD145MF, something I certainly wouldn't call anti-attack.
wait guys, so if synchroms have horrile stamina, but their hard to os... does that mean we need a REALLY good stamina type with okay defense from being knocked out? i mean synchroms are cool but ive been getting word that dragooon is the new chrome to have -.- and imo i like 4d the most...
(Aug. 08, 2012 7:08 AM)DrPepsidew Wrote: wait guys, so if synchroms have horrile stamina, but their hard to os... does that mean we need a REALLY good stamina type with okay defense from being knocked out? i mean synchroms are cool but ive been getting word that dragooon is the new chrome to have -.- and imo i like 4d the most...
Yeah, 4d is the best. and this combo should be banned..............NOW XD
QFT. But considering I've actually used Dragooon almost exclusively in a tournament and will probably continue to do so, I actually DO give the left spin credit. It's going to be an interesting evolution of metas everywhere, I would think.
(Aug. 08, 2012 6:53 AM)Ingulit Wrote: I don't think you're giving the fact that it spins left enough credit, as while other Synchroms have pitiful stamina, Dragooon actually has a fighting chance to OS just about everything thanks to its spin steal. That is a MASSIVE improvement over standard Synchroms, one that should not be downplayed.
Also, though I may be nitpicking, I wouldn't say using Metal Flat is "Anti-Attack" at all. The point of standard anti-attack customs is to abuse the defense of a Rubber Flat variant on top of its own heavy weight. Using Metal Flat is something different entirely, since you are getting absolutely no help defensively from the tip. This is more comparable to MF-H LDG BD145MF, something I certainly wouldn't call anti-attack.
(Aug. 08, 2012 9:29 AM)SoulEater57 Wrote: Yeah, 4d is the best. and this combo should be banned..............NOW XD
This combo wont be banned anytime soon. Now when its the only thing winning and there are no counter. THEN we could talk about banning it. But as diverse as the metagame is right now, I don't think it will be a problem.
![[Image: AqKPC.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/AqKPC.jpg)
Oh yeah, there are definitely counters, it's just really, really good. Like Mousy said, unless a Dragooon custom pops up that beats literally everything there's no reason for it to get banned.
What you should be taking away from this conversation is not "Dragooon should be banned" but "Oh wow, I should get Dragooon."
What you should be taking away from this conversation is not "Dragooon should be banned" but "Oh wow, I should get Dragooon."
But dragoon destroys everything and it's no fun if i'm using it then. XD
(Aug. 08, 2012 9:06 PM)Dark_Mousy Wrote:(Aug. 08, 2012 8:59 PM)SoulEater57 Wrote: But dragoon destroys everything and it's no fun if i'm using it then. XD
Figure out a counter then. You got until sunday. Then I'll be using it
>:l whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy DARK! you know you'll kill everyone
Are there any Stamina testings, I don't see anything in the OP? I'd love to see this going against a heavier Stamina type like MF Duo Kerbecs TH170BDS/B : D.
I know the primary use would be against slower, heavier attackers; however, it would be necessary to test it against Stamina so Primal could include a performance tip variant (no?).
I know the primary use would be against slower, heavier attackers; however, it would be necessary to test it against Stamina so Primal could include a performance tip variant (no?).
![[Image: olz5u.png]](https://gfxf.net/images/2012/08/05/olz5u.png)
![[Image: eterna10.jpg]](https://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/16/74/18/47/eterna10.jpg)
Would this be considered a defense type?
Spoiler (Click to View)
In a way, yes; but not completely...
It certainly has enough Defense to stay inside the stadium, and continue with its spin stealing (which is an immensely unique ability; as no spin steal combo has ever had such Defense).
As you can see in Ingulit's testing, it defeated Flash pretty easily. Its all due to its weight, but yeah!
You can't stop using Revizer for it though, as even Revizer plays a part in offering the high-quality Defense that the combo has.
I find the Revizer Dragooon Synchrome the best at the moment, and maybe that's why I am saying this! XD
Seriously though, this is one interesting combo... Balance type?
It is strikingly similar to Anti-Attack combos if we were to consider its way of functioning. However, Ingulit's post on the previous page (regarding this not being anti-attack) does seem true...
MF doesn't help it Defensively in any way (except providing it with all the speed; which when paired with the heavyweight, would have disastrous effects on the opponent.
Or maybe, we do not have a clear definition of anti-attack yet.... :\
Finding counters to this is going to be quite hard, though. It is doing so well against Attack, outspinning most Defense and Stamina combos, etc.
As already mentioned, this combo certainly loses to certain things. However, the combo should not suck against other opponents...
I am particularly interested in BeybladeStation's request tbh. Lets hope it works...
It certainly has enough Defense to stay inside the stadium, and continue with its spin stealing (which is an immensely unique ability; as no spin steal combo has ever had such Defense).
As you can see in Ingulit's testing, it defeated Flash pretty easily. Its all due to its weight, but yeah!
You can't stop using Revizer for it though, as even Revizer plays a part in offering the high-quality Defense that the combo has.
I find the Revizer Dragooon Synchrome the best at the moment, and maybe that's why I am saying this! XD
Seriously though, this is one interesting combo... Balance type?
It is strikingly similar to Anti-Attack combos if we were to consider its way of functioning. However, Ingulit's post on the previous page (regarding this not being anti-attack) does seem true...
MF doesn't help it Defensively in any way (except providing it with all the speed; which when paired with the heavyweight, would have disastrous effects on the opponent.
Or maybe, we do not have a clear definition of anti-attack yet.... :\
Finding counters to this is going to be quite hard, though. It is doing so well against Attack, outspinning most Defense and Stamina combos, etc.
As already mentioned, this combo certainly loses to certain things. However, the combo should not suck against other opponents...
I am particularly interested in BeybladeStation's request tbh. Lets hope it works...
![[Image: janstarblastsignature.jpg]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-imUVk9PErhw/Tb5jNvGKumI/AAAAAAAAAFw/8iSsYhW7vEw/janstarblastsignature.jpg)
Okay I think we are overlooking something here. One of the main issues/fears I had using L Drago Guardian BD145MF and CH120XF was not being able to ko low height stamina/defense combos like Duo 90/100/105D or LTDCs with RDF like Duo 90/100/105RDF.
And while these combos aren't very prevalent in the competitive scene, I definitely think they need to be tested against. Especially the RDF variant. If The "disk" gets in the way and doesn't ko, the rdf will spin on its side and outspin the flat spin stealer by a few rotations.
230 combos are generally pretty easy to ko with left spin combos: just knock them off balance and ko them near an exit. But you can't knock a low height beyblade out using the same method.
This might mean we need to consider using more aggressive chrome wheels on the underside, as it probably wont get hit by an attack combo (Most are 120+ with tall tips eg. RF, MF) if you are using ch120xf.
And while these combos aren't very prevalent in the competitive scene, I definitely think they need to be tested against. Especially the RDF variant. If The "disk" gets in the way and doesn't ko, the rdf will spin on its side and outspin the flat spin stealer by a few rotations.
230 combos are generally pretty easy to ko with left spin combos: just knock them off balance and ko them near an exit. But you can't knock a low height beyblade out using the same method.
This might mean we need to consider using more aggressive chrome wheels on the underside, as it probably wont get hit by an attack combo (Most are 120+ with tall tips eg. RF, MF) if you are using ch120xf.
![[Image: genbullsig.png]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-io7_XMqG5Rc/UbZB3O0wpOI/AAAAAAAAA7U/zjtN6ICXrbc/s800/genbullsig.png)
Meow!- Hm, that is interesting. 
The reasons you mentioned might help reduce the rate at which things are KOed by Dragooon. So, as the KO factor is now out of the scene, I'd consider (for the length of this post) Dragooon as a Stamina variant (a spin steal combo loosely resembles a Stamina type).
In a Stamina Vs. Stamina battle, usually the one with the lower track wins. This is exactly what led to the popularity of LTSCs in the HWS era(before the Max. Series was released; of course!).
Hence, it might be worth trying it out against Dragooon in my opinion.
The thing is, Dragooon is quite heavy; and paired with BD145, it is somewhat invincible. Should it get a chance to destabilize a low track combo, it would crush it in its path. BD145MF makes it a lot more risky. Whatever it be, LTSCs are still pretty easy to KO. LTDCs are interesting though.
However, there's been a long history that suggests that Defense setups are slightly weak against Spin Steal combos.... :\
Its still worth a try though, as we do not know the exact counter to this; and would have to try certain things anyway.
The reasons you mentioned might help reduce the rate at which things are KOed by Dragooon. So, as the KO factor is now out of the scene, I'd consider (for the length of this post) Dragooon as a Stamina variant (a spin steal combo loosely resembles a Stamina type).
In a Stamina Vs. Stamina battle, usually the one with the lower track wins. This is exactly what led to the popularity of LTSCs in the HWS era(before the Max. Series was released; of course!).
Hence, it might be worth trying it out against Dragooon in my opinion.
The thing is, Dragooon is quite heavy; and paired with BD145, it is somewhat invincible. Should it get a chance to destabilize a low track combo, it would crush it in its path. BD145MF makes it a lot more risky. Whatever it be, LTSCs are still pretty easy to KO. LTDCs are interesting though.
However, there's been a long history that suggests that Defense setups are slightly weak against Spin Steal combos.... :\
Its still worth a try though, as we do not know the exact counter to this; and would have to try certain things anyway.
Speaking of Dragooon Dragooon BD145 MF. A possible counter has been found for it. At my tournament yesterday I was using Dragooon for most of my matches. In the finals MSF Saramanda Saramanda BD was able to more or less stop Dragooon. Ill do formal test tonight. I was able to KO it one time. This was in a BB10 stadium. Dragooon Wasn't able to spin steal because BD seems to negate it.
Dark_Mousy- BD in sense BD145 or B: D?
If its the former- I do not own Dragooon and Saramanda, so I may not know. However, the two BD145s if wider than the MW, would disallow the metal wheels to make contact, thus not allowing it to spin steal. No?
So that is why it "negates" spin steal.
If its the latter- That'd be pretty interesting!
However, if formal testing is done, B: D would certainly get KOed consistently (referring to the notion- Tourney situation differs from testing environment). :\
Also, I do not understand how it negated spin steal, haha! But yeah, I think B: D was known to cause problems for spin steal combos (or maybe, it was problematic for opponents when used with a spin stealing setup).
If its the former- I do not own Dragooon and Saramanda, so I may not know. However, the two BD145s if wider than the MW, would disallow the metal wheels to make contact, thus not allowing it to spin steal. No?
So that is why it "negates" spin steal.
If its the latter- That'd be pretty interesting!
However, if formal testing is done, B: D would certainly get KOed consistently (referring to the notion- Tourney situation differs from testing environment). :\
Also, I do not understand how it negated spin steal, haha! But yeah, I think B: D was known to cause problems for spin steal combos (or maybe, it was problematic for opponents when used with a spin stealing setup).
Duo B was able to beat Dragooon/etc. Dragooon B yesterday in Maryland's tournament.
was able to beat Dragooon/etc. Dragooon B yesterday in Maryland's tournament.
![[Image: vwa_copy3_by_elcesplooshe_daejy2u-fullvi...Za8ANFHK5M]](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/0779b042-834a-4ac6-9292-fab88a9af9cb/daejy2u-70e51d94-acbe-4593-ad69-5434d834b672.jpg/v1/fill/w_1024,h_317,q_75,strp/vwa_copy3_by_elcesplooshe_daejy2u-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MzE3IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvMDc3OWIwNDItODM0YS00YWM2LTkyOTItZmFiODhhOWFmOWNiXC9kYWVqeTJ1LTcwZTUxZDk0LWFjYmUtNDU5My1hZDY5LTU0MzRkODM0YjY3Mi5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTAyNCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.GJIQK2sXAJm5ScpS3pSVJ8KrA6Ru9qtE4Za8ANFHK5M)
Im speaking of BD (bearing drive). Ill do formal testing with it once I get off work and get home. I did battle some Duo BD145 defense setups and I had no problem beating them. Most of the time I won by OS.
oh this is exciting. I'm very surprised at the emergence of B:D at winning combos in several tournaments at once. what was this? private testing by a bunch of people who know each other? such a tight meta.