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Draciel G: Article Draft

Jul. 15, 2012  6:59 PM
 
I don't really mind, normally I can let bad drafts die instead, but you write too well for that to be do-able. That list is just another thing I'd have to add to my to-do list, and there are more important things there that will, in the end, have a very similar effect, as well as providing a lot more.

Uh, recoil is not open ended at all, I don't know why you'd think that was the case... As I said, I will try it again ASAP but its shape alone, the angle of the contact points and so on indicate that it has a lot of recoil.

"There is no such thing as fact" is nothing more than a pathetic excuse for stupidity and strikes me as little more than the type of thing people who want to sounds smart with philosophical statements but don't really understand philosophy would say - and I don't even have a high opinion of philosophy as a whole.

If you're going to take that attitude, a project that focusses on the facts of beyblade is really not a suitable place for you to be.


Jul. 15, 2012  7:08 PM
 
(Jul. 15, 2012  6:58 PM)Ultra Wrote: I'm not really saying you shouldn't try i'm just making you aware of it. Also btw I started that before th!nk had posted his.
I know, no worries. Hey, that just means I have to improve and get better right?
(Jul. 15, 2012  6:59 PM)th!nk Wrote: I don't really mind, normally I can let bad drafts die instead, but you write too well for that to be do-able. That list is just another thing I'd have to add to my to-do list, and there are more important things there that will, in the end, have a very similar effect, as well as providing a lot more.
Uh...thanks? Haha. But alright, that makes sense.
Quote:Uh, recoil is not open ended at all, I don't know why you'd think that was the case... As I said, I will try it again ASAP but its shape alone, the angle of the contact points and so on indicate that it has a lot of recoil.
Okay. I'll wait for you to test that then, and we can work with the article based on those results.
Quote:"There is no such thing as fact" is nothing more than a pathetic excuse for stupidity and strikes me as little more than the type of thing people who want to sounds smart with philosophical statements but don't really understand philosophy would say - and I don't even have a high opinion of philosophy as a whole.
Nah, it's just me saying we should compromise on this instead of fight. Depending on how your testing with Ariel goes, we'll work off of that and come up with a general consensus of the information we've produced.
Quote:If you're going to take that attitude, a project that focusses on the facts of beyblade is really not a suitable place for you to be.
We all have to work together to make an article and not fight with each other. That's exactly what we need for this project.
Jul. 15, 2012  7:16 PM
 
The best way to learn is by trying things for yourself at this point. BB-10 would be the best stadium if you lack tornado attack, don't bother with others. BB-10 is more prone to KO's for all types, including attackers (recoil/self ko's etc) so keep that in mind.

I'll be testing it on a few bases, including the setup you included in this draft. I make no promise of compromise if things go as I recall they did last time. There's still a good 6 hours before I can test anything though.











Jul. 15, 2012  7:21 PM
 
Yeah, I'm going to start experimenting a lot more so I can make myself more knowledgable about this stuff. This way, I'm in a better position to help the community and create a better article.

I don't know what you're referring to as last time, because I don't remember collaborating before (Except on DZV, but come to think of it my draft was pretty bad...). Don't worry, I'm gonna start testing out the Rock Bison/Wolborg IV combo thing and see what results it yields (Probably not much different than WBIV like you said, but curiosity is getting the better of me, haha). My WB base is missing the connecting piece that holds it together, so I'll just have to be careful.
Jul. 15, 2012  7:24 PM
 
I was referring to the last time I used Shield Hammer.

Rock Bison uses the same clip to hold the CEW in place if that's what you mean, and not having it would alter the results noticeably in terms of stability when hit and so on.
Jul. 15, 2012  7:31 PM
 
(Jul. 15, 2012  7:24 PM)th!nk Wrote: I was referring to the last time I used Shield Hammer.

Rock Bison uses the same clip to hold the CEW in place if that's what you mean, and not having it would alter the results noticeably in terms of stability when hit and so on.
Oh haha, sorry my bad.

Yes, maybe I shouldn't then. I'll just wait until you test out Ariel+Shield Hammer and then maybe be closer to having this thing done and out of the way Smile
Jul. 15, 2012  7:50 PM
 
Hm, just noticed this.
(Jul. 15, 2012  7:08 PM)Sparta Wrote:
Quote:"There is no such thing as fact" is nothing more than a pathetic excuse for stupidity and strikes me as little more than the type of thing people who want to sounds smart with philosophical statements but don't really understand philosophy would say - and I don't even have a high opinion of philosophy as a whole.
Nah, it's just me saying we should compromise on this instead of fight. Depending on how your testing with Ariel goes, we'll work off of that and come up with a general consensus of the information we've produced.
Quote:If you're going to take that attitude, a project that focusses on the facts of beyblade is really not a suitable place for you to be.
We all have to work together to make an article and not fight with each other. That's exactly what we need for this project.

Compromising over factual matters based on the incorrect opinions of people who lack the depth of knowledge to make correct judgements is not what this project needs, it's a great way to continue producing the sort of garbage that is on there right now.

One of the key issues with the wiki's plastics sections is that they are so vague with any sort of comparative performance of parts, and what you're proposing would only allow it to self-perpetuate. I will not see that continue whilst I'm here - I'd sooner abandon the whole project and let it rot.
Jul. 15, 2012  8:11 PM
 
Well...that's not really what I meant to say. I meant like: I don't know much about plastics, but you do. That's why we need you.
But we also need someone who is really good at writing.
We also need someone who takes really good pictures.
Someone who researches the different recolors and versions.
As in, as much as I may disagree I'll probably defer to your judgement on the AR's recoil, after reconsidering my previous statements. Because that's your specialty, and that's what you're good at. You know more about that than all of us combined, haha.
Jul. 15, 2012  8:16 PM
 
Yes, teamwork is important and it's why I've lobbied for a team of people to be in charge of beywiki, but all of the members of a team must be competent.

I will assume your second line there isn't implying that my writing isn't at least "good", by the way - you're welcome to discuss it with me via PM if you feel that is the case, though, I don't mind constructive criticism.
Jul. 15, 2012  8:18 PM
 
No your writing is very good, haha. I'm just trying to make a point.
Jul. 15, 2012  8:29 PM
 
Okay, was just curious seeing as apart from length and my year 11 and 12 English teacher who currently has "twilight" on her favourite books list or whatever on facebook, I've not received much criticism of it, haha, and I am pretty picky about my writing as it is (most of my posts here have at least one edit, for example).

It is a point I certainly agree with, but it's not applicable to what we were discussing. I was talking specifically about information and facts.

I'll try to do some testing on the base setup as well while I'm at it, so the information is sorted (seeing as I need to check it out for a couple of things I'm working on anyway). I am honestly still holding out some small hope that the AR isn't as horrible as I remember as I actually really like how it looks. In fact, one of the main reasons I dislike draciel G so much is because it actually looks nice and bulky and so on, but then completely fails to deliver.
Jul. 15, 2012  9:27 PM
 
Yea, it does look pretty nice, I agree Smile

Just take your time and don't rush. But post here when you get results so I can update the article. Thank you!
Jul. 15, 2012  10:05 PM
 
(Jul. 15, 2012  5:01 PM)th!nk Wrote: The base can be used with wolborg 4 setups and was popular at one stage. I see no reason to use it over the original but it should still be mentioned and a combo given.

Wait... THE FINAL CLUTCH BASE CAN WORK WITH WOLBORG 4'S ENGINE GEAR AND CEW?
I have the Draciel G final clutch base from Orthros G and Circle Survivor and Wolborg 4's engine gear doesn't fit.
Is it compatible?
Wait, I just read about Rock Bison's engine gear, never mind.
Is that engine gear released in a different beyblade or only in rock bison, because I know rock bison is useless and I don't want to buy him just for that.
Jul. 15, 2012  11:06 PM
 
I think you have to have Rock Bison's EG (Yes, it's the only one that has it), if I'm interpreting what th!nk said correctly...

Do you have any suggestions for the article itself?
Jul. 15, 2012  11:13 PM
 
Desert Sphinxers works as well but honestly I don't think it's worth bothering with. As I said, I'll try it again today (maybe third time will be the charm), but I've always found a regular wolborg 4 base and eg works better.

By the way, in future before you ask if two base/sg/whatever parts go together, the compatibility document I wrote that no one ever bothers to check for some reason despite the effort I put into it and the fact it's linked in my signature AND that it should be downloadable, usually covers it, and this case here is no exception, in fact there's a whole tab of the spreadsheed basically dedicated to it.


EDIT: Just posting to say I tried it a little but I'm kinda tired (staying up to not miss my EZ Shooter Power Custom delivery), but yeah, I was wrong about it having loads of recoil, well, it does have a lot of recoil if the heads hit, but other than that it's not that bad, however it has no smash of note at all, no sense in such a light WD, (Wide Survivor only outperforms Wide Defense in a couple of combos, and Shield Hammer is in none of those), Wide Defense is a better choice, but I don't think a combination should be listed, and I think you're overstating it's smash attack. I will try more once I have the energy.
Jul. 16, 2012  4:03 PM
 
Thanks for testing, now get some sleep haha. Interesting though...if you plan on testing again I'll wait to change the article, but those results are surprising to say the least.
Aug. 02, 2012  1:32 PM
 
I tried the AR again today, same thing, it's not got that much recoil compared to attack AR's, but it just has no power compared to so many other AR's. Not worth listing a combo for. Obviously too recoily for Stamina/Defense use, too.
Aug. 04, 2012  1:43 AM
 
Alright, I'll edit the article for that. Post any changes you want to make to it.
Aug. 06, 2012  2:05 AM
 
Spoiler (Click to View)
I edited some things, mostly grammar. Comments in bold.
Aug. 08, 2012  4:44 PM
 
For that first AR section, I was trying to say that the AR was mostly designed for defense, but those projections in particular may have been designed for niche attack capabilities. I'll just get rid of that since it was really confusing and poorly worded.
Aug. 08, 2012  5:38 PM
 
Wasn't there a Hasbro RC version too?
Aug. 08, 2012  6:12 PM
 
RC versions have never been put in the other versions before.
Aug. 14, 2012  5:00 AM
 
Yeah we don't include RC Versions. Something to consider in future, perhaps.

Anyway I got around to testing other bases with wolborg 4's Circle Survivor CEW Part. Draciel G's base performs worse than wolborg 4's because it leaves a really big gap opponents can get into. It should be mentioned that it can be used for Circle Survivor Defense Customizations (requiring the use of Rock Bison's Right EG (Circle Defenser) or Desert Sphinxer's Right EG (Mystery Cutter)), but that Wolborg 4's own Normal Base (Wolborg 4 Version) and Right EG (Circle Survivor) work much better, so it should only be considered if Wolborg 4's Engine Gear is not available for some reason (breakage usually) - or if one doesn't have rock bison and is using desert sphinxer, that or the base (as rock bison and wolborg 4's base are the same while desert sphinxer comes with a final clutch bb).

The only bases I've found thus far that are worth using over Wolborg 4's own are Dranzer GT's (3-sided shape provides good synergy, improving the stamina of the combo) and Zeus's seems to do strangely well, producing an extremely heavy base/EG setup (roughly equal to Draciel S's SG Metal Ball with four metal balls and a Heavy Metal Core), though it's not really a Circle Survivor Defense combo (much more of a weight based defender IMO) and I need to look into it more to determine whether it's really worthwhile.
Basically, you should mention that like most engine gear bases it isn't worth using over wolborg 4's unless w4's eg isn't available. I've checked every non-Normal Base that doesn't have spikes/belongs to desert sphinxer which I don't have, having spikes is bad as opponents at 10bBistool's height can hit them and deplete stamina (still an issue with dranzer GT's BB but the significant improvement vs Zombies is worth the small tradeoff for me). I also still need to see if normal base works with rock bisons eg, though I doubt it given the gap it'd leave.

Still unsure whether or not it's worth actually including a combo section or not, I mean it's still a good setup, it's just that a stock setup works much better. I guess there's no real harm in including it, so yeah, do it.
Aug. 15, 2012  5:21 AM
 
Alrighty, thanks for that. I'll edit that section of the draft and hopefully it comes out okay. Let me know if you see any changes you want to make.
Aug. 15, 2012  5:33 AM
 
Did some more testing last night and Wolborg 4 and Rock Bison's bases both work better with rock bison's EG for circle survivor defense (especially wolborg 4's as it's completely round, that with rock bison's eg is currently my favourite setup). Sorry for only getting to this now, haven't had internet access since I tested it out.
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