What I mean by difficulty is that if you ban the top tier list as a whole, then tracks like 85, 90, and 100 can't be used, but they really aren't as significant as something like the Basalt wheel. It wouldn't be worth banning them too.

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What I mean by difficulty is that if you ban the top tier list as a whole, then tracks like 85, 90, and 100 can't be used, but they really aren't as significant as something like the Basalt wheel. It wouldn't be worth banning them too.

its not banning the top tiers, it is just suggesting that we should have two tier lists

here is my examples

1. someone wants to organize a tournament but doesn't have parts from maximum and beyond (take me for example), so to not get crushed he can make a tournament within the tier his parts are in

2. someone is organizing a tournament and doesn't want to see/do mirror matches, so he does a lower list so people have more diversity

so if someone doesn't have the parts, he can do a tournament with second or third tier parts if he wants to

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lord Wolfblade, he knows ... he's highlighting the fact that the top-tier shouldn't be indiscriminately excluded from this second format, since it contains various Tracks like 85 and 90, which by themselves, aren't exceptionally overpowered.

What I mean by difficulty is that if you ban the top tier list as a whole, then tracks like 85, 90, and 100 can't be used, but they really aren't as significant as something like the Basalt wheel. It wouldn't be worth banning them too.

its not banning the top tiers, it is just suggesting that we should have two tier lists

here is my examples

1. someone wants to organize a tournament but doesn't have parts from maximum and beyond (take me for example), so to not get crushed he can make a tournament within the tier his parts are in

2. someone is organizing a tournament and doesn't want to see/do mirror matches, so he does a lower list so people have more diversity

so if someone doesn't have the parts, he can do a tournament with second or third tier parts if he wants to

Not having parts is part of the game.

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he's highlighting the fact that the top-tier shouldn't be indiscriminately excluded from this second format, since it contains various Tracks like 85 and 90, which by themselves, aren't exceptionally overpowered.

i agree, compleatly, i guess i just read his post wrong

it isn't a ban of one part needed as (like 90 and 85) are not overpowered, it is a ban of the combo as a whole not just part of the combo

Not having parts is part of the game.

put it this way, lets say i can not buy TT parts and is stuck with hasbro parts, since most combos you can make from hasbro parts are outclassed i will be beaten within the first round (like at the last tourniment i was at, since i did not have the money to buy good parts, and i still have no money, i lost every battle)

by using a second tier people have more diversity, and will not have outclassed parts letting them win more (which is funner for all IMO)

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Not having parts is part of the game.

put it this way, lets say i can not buy TT parts and is stuck with hasbro parts, since most combos you can make from hasbro parts are outclassed i will be beaten within the first round (like at the last tourniment i was at, since i did not have the money to buy good parts, and i still have no money, i lost every battle)

by using a second tier people have more diversity, and will not have outclassed parts letting them win more (which is funner for all IMO)

I don't agree that this is a valid point at all. Without sounding inconsiderate and elitist, it isn't really anyone's fault that certain people can't obtain certain parts - this is the nature of almost any hobby around the world, and this proposal's basic purpose isn't to eradicate this issue. Yes, it's a possible consequence, but it's about reinvigoration of the metagame primarily. Ultimately, it's equally likely you won't be able to obtain a part which thrives in this other format.

(first off i want to say that i can get, and own TT parts, i was saying "what if" in my last post)

how about this then, why do most people go to a tournament or a competition? the biggest reason is to win. if you do not have the right parts you do not win

it is funner to win some and lose some then to only lose

also i am not talking just about 2 formats as only 2 formats still leave some people with outclassed parts (like lets say they have WB and no RS), that is why i suggested 3 formats:

a overpower combos one, a earth GB145RS time period one, and a before RS one

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(first off i want to say that i can get, and own TT parts, i was saying "what if" in my last post)

how about this then, why do most people go to a tournament or a competition? the biggest reason is to win. if you do not have the right parts you do not win

it is funner to win some and lose some then to only lose

also i am not talking just about 2 formats as only 2 formats still leave some people with outclassed parts (like lets say they have WB and no RS), that is why i suggested 3 formats:

a overpower combos one, a earth GB145RS time period one, and a before RS one

So how must we negotiate determining "over-powered" combos from "good" combos?

to be truly honest basalt has kinda ruined the game including 230.... bd145 and pd bottoms and tracks like that are fine its just the game has become boring and repetitive... in 3 tournaments every time i always see basalt bull 230 cs... it extremely annoying as you cant out spin it, u cant knock it out and u cant destabilize it!. its absolute ball sharp! xD but srsly we should change it

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420 bucket!

So how must we negotiate determining "over-powered" combos from "good" combos?

i guess any combo that losses to MF-H basalt BD145/230CS/D/MB is not overpowered

that is what i think

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So how must we negotiate determining "over-powered" combos from "good" combos?

i guess any combo that losses to MF-H basalt BD145/230CS/D/MB is not overpowered

that is what i think

But the current metagame isn't as simple as that. Yes, we complain about Basalt being overpowered, but that doesn't really directly address the other overlooked, alternative parts.

Having three different formats is pushing it and confusing. You have to consider the logistical consequences of this proposal, too.

(first off i want to say that i can get, and own TT parts, i was saying "what if" in my last post)

how about this then, why do most people go to a tournament or a competition? the biggest reason is to win. if you do not have the right parts you do not win

it is funner to win some and lose some then to only lose

also i am not talking just about 2 formats as only 2 formats still leave some people with outclassed parts (like lets say they have WB and no RS), that is why i suggested 3 formats:

a overpower combos one, a earth GB145RS time period one, and a before RS one

Like
light-weight
Light heavy-weight
Heavy-weight

or the effectiveness or size and Weight of the parts?
cause the newer parts just dwarf all the older parts, Hell, Fang, Beat,Big-Bang, Basalt.
Lets face it you cant put a feather weight boxer vs a heavy weight boxer, so would you put Combo's that are just twice or triple times more heavier than the other ones.
Earth used to be one of the heaviest but get smashed out like it was a flame wheel. And that gos for all the older parts. They now look like they are on roids, Really overgrown.

But the current metagame isn't as simple as that. Yes, we complain about Basalt being overpowered, but that doesn't really directly address the other overlooked, alternative parts.

Having three different formats is pushing it and confusing. You have to consider the logistical consequences of this proposal, too.

define overlooked and alternative parts

it is not really confusing to me at all, but i guess it is a bit "pushing it"
i personally see much more good then bad from this proposal

stevebak not as much weight, but yeah i guess you could say it that way (nyeh i am a bit confused)

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But the current metagame isn't as simple as that. Yes, we complain about Basalt being overpowered, but that doesn't really directly address the other overlooked, alternative parts.

Having three different formats is pushing it and confusing. You have to consider the logistical consequences of this proposal, too.

define overlooked and alternative parts

http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php/...T_BEYBLADE

With the exception of top-tier parts such as Basalt, 230, BD145, etc. I thought participation in this thread meant that you understood the basic principles and issues behind this already ...

Just put 2 formats.

But how?
you want a top tier and then a second tier?

or you can just modif the rules.
like 230 is good on Basalt and MF2, but less efective on heavier to give the other combos a chance.

So I propose to split it up basing on the brute power of the combo rather than the part it self.
(if you split it up) you can make one restricted metagame and one without limits.

One With the monster combo's like Lightning thank and co,
and one where you can use the top tier parts but to give a chance to the other parts you cant use more than 2 maximum and up series parts on one beyblade. So that you go and alternate your combo's. They won't be as great as the current top tier but would definitly shake things up. And limit the MF-H for basalt to a simple MF to allow other wheels to be reused more.

http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php/...T_BEYBLADE

With the exception of top-tier parts such as Basalt, 230, BD145, etc. I thought participation in this thread meant that you understood the basic principles and issues behind this already ...

so just all parts that are not top tier... i do not really see a huge problem with that

i do understand the principles and issues, and after looking at it with a different point of view i do see more issues then before and get what you are saying more

but, i still think it is a good idea, though it may never happen.

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yes we need a second format so that we can use our old bey parts

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sig by me

See, what I believe about this topic is, the owners of top tiers can 'kill' the others. I myself, am afraid as I have a LLD100HF. Think what can happen if I battle those Basalt combos. 230 ones can kung fu me. So, in my opinion, we must have a format, full of overpowered beys. Its no fun defeating a participant(using a bad bey like Poison Serpent) with a top tier... So, we must first divide them based on their tiers. It may take a long time. We must also make sure that there are at least 3 bottoms for each attribute of Defense, Attack and Stamina. Then, we must make sure there are enough metal wheels and clear wheels. Finally, when all this is done, we will have 3-4 formats. First one will consist of those Basalts, Libras, CS, R2F, 230 and Kerbecs things... Next will be Lightnings, Earths, WD, RF, WB, Bull, Vulcan and all. Finally we will have the Poisons, Darks, Killers, Q, M145 etc. As new releases come out, we can do some tests, and then put them in their groups. If this doesn't work well, we can divide the beys based on seasons. Season 1, 2 and 4D. So, this will not only give those left out bladers a chance, but we will also be able to see some great moves by those thoroughly outclassed beys.

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Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

I do not think we need a tier system where each bey gets to be top tier at something. Access to parts is part of the game, as has been said. However, now it has become having access to a few specific parts. Previously, if you had original Leone, you could still make a decent attack combo. Now, you need one of a very limited number of wheels.
It is only that the number of parts that are VIABLE (NOT top tier), has decreased so dramatically as to leave us very few options that will actually have a CHANCE of winning in the current metagame.

If you read the OP, this is explained. If we remove the parts skewing the metagame into their own format, then we are fine. An example would be, MF Leone H145RF. It won't beat basaltBD145 at all. However, against Libra and Earth, it can do reasonably, IIRC. Sure, Lightning L Drago, Gravity Perseus and Vulcan are better. But it is still a useful combo. A lot of Pre-HWS wheels are in the same boat. Vulcan is now, too. Screw, as I've said many times, is another example. Get rid of Basalt and Co, and it finally gets it's shot at being used.

Also, your suggestion is WAY too difficult to implement.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Well, yes. It is actually not a change in the metagame, but a whole new metagame. Yes, I change my opinion now. Weight has always been a problem. Libra was banned for that reason. But, Flame Byxis introduced a whole new problem of height. Though that devastated the metagame, a way was found to counter it. Then Basalt, ruled and dominated the metagame in such a way, that even Alexander the Great would be overshadowed. So, this proves that weight is the dominating factor ATM. Those Lightning tanks and Maximum Meteors can devastate these for sure, but they have something, which I think is inconsistent. These depend on speed, spin steals(maybe) and instant KOs. So, if you would realize, an attack type as a whole has never been able to dominate a metgame for long. Some parts, like Lightning have done so. This proves the reason why a recent blog read that there have been no attack types in a certain tourney.

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Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

well guys, let's just focus on balancing things for the first time (i mean without recent overpowered parts)
after that, let's test see if there's something wrong.

AFTER THAT, we can create a "low tier" category, but let's focus on things step by step

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Oh Mighty Ocean, guide us as we journey through the darkest pit of night.

"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

Just make 2 metagames

1. unlimited - overgrown parts etc...
2. Limited - strict rules for the overgrown parts......
Example: no metal faces for Basalt,
no more than 1 maximum top tier parts an a combo, but free use for the older parts (pre maximum).

the concept is not perfect yet but the idea is to use all the parts from all the series but containing those super monster combos. Banning those parts is not really a good thing, but just limit the parts effectiveness just a little bit. Making it a bit weaker so that the older beyblades can do something of a contest to it. and limiting 1 maximum serie or up Beyblade part will get rid of the basalt 230 to give attackers a chance to do something to it. And that goes fo all the beys. It is a small step backward but a greater step forward to shake things up a bit.

i see what you mean, but i think that basalt alone makes too much parts completely useless, plus the previous metagame was quite good i think.
Note that we're talking about a second format, so yeah, i think that the best option is just to test and THEN decide.

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Oh Mighty Ocean, guide us as we journey through the darkest pit of night.

"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

yep thats the point, if we want to create a second format the question where will you draw the line between first and second (tier or division). But tell how does Basalt without MF/MF-H goes against MF-H earth and vulcan and also how does it go without a rubber based bottom. Can somebody explore that route to. The problem is that those parts are already bulked so it must be banned to use those MF, and Rubber parts on the them to give room for the other to keep up with the maximums and 4D's.

what do you think about that?

When we were discussing the Libra ban, we were presented with several avenues, including banning Libra when used in conjunction with a Metal Face, or on certain heights, or banning certain weights. Really, these constitute judges' worst nightmares - it's far easier to ban a part outright than have to inspect everything at length. I think any suggestion which includes the banning of certain combinations of parts together is not viable.