World Beyblade Organization

Full Version: Do we need a second format?
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I've been looking at my collection of beyblades, and since the release of maximum, it seems that TT released "overpowered" parts, and it is trying to balance this by releasing more "overpowered" parts.
we're going towards a direction that will make 99% of old wheels TOTALLY USELESS.
before voting, read everything.

just think twice:
let's think: what can be viable with parts like basalt, bd145, hell and 230 around
with viable i mean decent.
ex: quetz is viable even if vulcan is better.

PRE HWS:
Capricorne - not viable, basalt fault
L Drago - maybe can counter some basalt combo? anyway not so viable against others.
Bull - no use
Aries - no use
Gemios - not viable, basalt fault
pisces - not viable, basalt fault
Escolpio - no use
Acquario - not viable, basalt fault
Virgo - not viable, basalt fault
Leo - not viable, basalt fault
wolf - LOL
Pegasis - not viable, basalt fault
Quetzalcoatl - not viable, basalt fault
Libra - not viable, basalt fault
Sagittario - almost viable, basalt fault


HWS:
storm - not viable, basalt fault
rock - not viable, basalt fault
burn - not viable, basalt fault
earth - almost viable, basalt fault
vulcan - not viable, basalt fault
dark - no use
poison - no use
gravity - counter to few things, but not so viable against other top things
galaxy - not viable, basalt fault
cyber - not viable, basalt fault
counter - not viable, basalt fault
lightning - lightning tank, yeah, but still is it a safe choice against other beyblades?
meteo - like lightning
thermal - not viable, basalt fault
flame - not viable, basalt fault
hyper - not viable, basalt fault
legend wheels in general - not viable/no use
ray - not viable, basalt fault

and so on. as discussing before, banning basalt alone would not help,
new releases seem to be so strong to outclass everything (think to beat results)
if TT effectively releases overpowered parts to balance the metagame with basalt in it and almost every beyblade becomes almost useless, wouldn't we need 2 formats?

from maximum on and before maximum (if after some tests some new pieces don't prove an heavy superiority they could be inserted in the format)

Quote:Yamislayer's proposal will create a totally new metagame, where different parts and styles thrive because others won't be there. It's the equivalent of a format where all top-tier customisations/parts are banned, paving the way for a whole host of other parts.
Well, I agree to this. Some awesome wheels just wreck the reputation of others.
I agree with it too. As other wheels like Basalt are released or are releasing many other wheels getting worser and completely outclassed.
Yes, look at bottoms too. Look what happened to WB....
well, WB is outclassed, but has some little use and at least we're not talking about 50 metal wheels outclassed by 5 =)
wait, do you mean like two tier lists?
like one with the maximum series (like MF-H basalt bull BD145CS for defence) and then one with combos from before (like MF-H earth bull GB145RS for defence)

or am i missing something? if i am right i agree, it would be good

edit: the reason i agree if i am right is, that some may not have parts from the maximum series, by not having those parts they will easily lose and such
Yh I feel embarresd owning a storm or rock, sure I Balsalt and Hell BUT some people make top tier and competitive strategies to be everything to beyblade.

Here in the UK a lot of us just use the Beys we like
-------------

A new format will be great, it could be like Pokemon tcg changing the series you can use. I am currently with some friends and they says that a new format for just Hasbros will be tge best or Bey that are made by TT but currently released by Hasbro. Imo I think that isn't really much of a problem here on WBO but if comes around I wont complain.

Imo I think the formats of BM and AM are great. (Before Max and after max)
It's just the evolution of the game. It's inevitable that parts get bigger and stronger. Complaining about parts that are 2+ years old is kind of pointless.

True that the metagame at the moment is kind of stale but we just have to wait til other beyblades are released.
(May. 03, 2011  5:29 PM)Otsu Wrote: [ -> ]It's just the evolution of the game. It's inevitable that parts get bigger and stronger. Complaining about parts that are 2+ years old is kind of pointless.

True that the metagame at the moment is kind of stale but we just have to wait til other beyblades are released.

well the problem with that is kinda like this

Quote:TT released "overpowered" parts, and it is trying to balance this by releasing more "overpowered" parts.
the newer overpowered part just makes the metagame the same as it just was, except the newer part is dominate, not the last one

so really the metagame never balances itself

the only time i can think of it kinda balanced was before the maximum series when attack was dominate, but attack was unused as well <- i am sorry if what i said is offtopic
(May. 03, 2011  5:29 PM)Otsu Wrote: [ -> ]It's just the evolution of the game. It's inevitable that parts get bigger and stronger. Complaining about parts that are 2+ years old is kind of pointless.

True that the metagame at the moment is kind of stale but we just have to wait til other beyblades are released.

I don't agree that it's stale at all. This is actually one of the most interesting phases the metagame has ever gone through ...

To address the thread though, I'm actually really interested by the idea. I'm against the idea of banning Basalt at the moment also. I draw from the Pokemon competitve metagame a lot, but I think the example here is apt. In order to allow people a freedom in using a variety of Pokemon, they use tiers so that weaker, less competitive Pokemon can have an opportunity too.
I was talking about tcg but J get what u are say about ubers in the vgc etc
the main problem is not "the metagame is unbalanced" because it's rebalancing. the main problem is that after this, you can take your metal wheels and toss everything released before kerbecs, so my idea is:
it would be good to have a format where "overpowered" parts are not allowed.

heart got the point. it's like creating the UU format.
Did you forget fang leone and big bang pegasis. Those beyblades arent exactly dominating at the moment.
(May. 03, 2011  5:35 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: [ -> ]
(May. 03, 2011  5:29 PM)Otsu Wrote: [ -> ]It's just the evolution of the game. It's inevitable that parts get bigger and stronger. Complaining about parts that are 2+ years old is kind of pointless.

True that the metagame at the moment is kind of stale but we just have to wait til other beyblades are released.

well the problem with that is kinda like this

Quote:TT released "overpowered" parts, and it is trying to balance this by releasing more "overpowered" parts.
the newer overpowered part just makes the metagame the same as it just was, except the newer part is dominate, not the last one

so really the metagame never balances itself

the only time i can think of it kinda balanced was before the maximum series when attack was dominate, but attack was unused as well <- i am sorry if what i said is offtopic
so it is kinda like having the tier list from last year's metagame, and now's

example
and then having a tournament of only one of the lists (so for people with the newest parts they use tier one, but for those lacking the newest parts they could do a second tier)


(May. 03, 2011  5:51 PM)Otsu Wrote: [ -> ]Did you forget fang leone and big bang pegasis. Those beyblades arent exactly

well, i meant more of beat and "lightning tank" which are kinda changing the metagame
to my opinion, you could just go "releases before hell kerbecs" "everything" for the two formats
I disagree, burn, earth, Virgo an Libra are still viable stamina wheels, Libra is also still good for defence because in some situations it cant wobble, e.g Libra 85 D. Gravity and lightning are great for attack, apparently pegasis 145 RF is good, but I wouldn't know about that one. Then there's loads of anti-meta's and flame is great for destabilizers.
have you a good experience in basalt matchups?

everything you mentioned loses against a good basalt combo.
Would you rather use the latest Cell phone released, or would you like to use the 'telephone' Invented by Graham Bell ?

What I am trying to get at is, as newer products are released, companies work on making the next product better.

Otsu rightly said that this is the evolution of the meta-game. We don't need a second format. Maximum series Beyblades are awesome, sure. But you saw the Beat results right ? After all you were the one to refer me to them. Right Spin Attack Beyblades don't really do well against the modern Defense types, but Beat did.

Back on topic, newer Beyblades will be released, and those newer beyblades will become better and better. So we might even forget about the older ones.

BUT,

Older beyblades were tested by older users. We now have a different launch, a more effective one. So if we test the Beyblade's which were tested that time, and got good results, let's test them once again.


think of the second list for those who don't/can't get the maximum series at all, right now the tournaments are like "have the maximum or lose/don't even play"
(May. 03, 2011  6:10 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: [ -> ]

think of the second list for those who don't/can't get the maximum series at all, right now the tournaments are like "have the maximum or lose/don't even play"

I've proposed a hasbro only tourney in the past but kai-v shot it down.
(May. 03, 2011  6:03 PM)Electric Wrote: [ -> ]Would you rather use the latest Cell phone released, or would you like to use the 'telephone' Invented by Graham Bell ?

What I am trying to get at is, as newer products are released, companies work on making the next product better.

Otsu rightly said that this is the evolution of the meta-game. We don't need a second format. Maximum series Beyblades are awesome, sure. But you saw the Beat results right ? After all you were the one to refer me to them. Right Spin Attack Beyblades don't really do well against the modern Defense types, but Beat did.

Back on topic, newer Beyblades will be released, and those newer beyblades will become better and better. So we might even forget about the older ones.

BUT,

Older beyblades were tested by older users. We now have a different launch, a more effective one. So if we test the Beyblade's which were tested that time, and got good results, let's test them once again.

This post typifies a lot of other posts on this thread; a lot of you are missing Yamislayer's point completely.

He is fully aware that new parts will outclass the old. That's not important - what he is addressing however, is the disuse of older, outclassed parts. It's not about making the game fairer for people who don't have access to Maximum Series parts either.

Yamislayer's proposal will create a totally new metagame, where different parts and styles thrive because others won't be there. It's the equivalent of a format where all top-tier customisations/parts are banned, paving the way for a whole host of other parts.

It's really exciting in my opinion, but I'm still yet to see how this can fitted into our current competition structure.


(May. 03, 2011  6:16 PM)Otsu Wrote: [ -> ]
(May. 03, 2011  6:10 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: [ -> ]

think of the second list for those who don't/can't get the maximum series at all, right now the tournaments are like "have the maximum or lose/don't even play"

I've proposed a hasbro only tourney in the past but kai-v shot it down.

Hasbro-only, and what this proposes, are different.
(May. 03, 2011  6:16 PM)Otsu Wrote: [ -> ]
(May. 03, 2011  6:10 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: [ -> ]

think of the second list for those who don't/can't get the maximum series at all, right now the tournaments are like "have the maximum or lose/don't even play"

I've proposed a hasbro only tourney in the past but kai-v shot it down.

well this isn't a "hasbro only" it is just "outclassed parts/second tier only"

also she most likely shot it down because hasbro stadiums are illegal (there also may be some other factors), a second tier parts tournament will still use WBO legal stadiums such as the TT attack
(May. 03, 2011  6:10 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: [ -> ]

think of the second list for those who don't/can't get the maximum series at all, right now the tournaments are like "have the maximum or lose/don't even play"


Well, they got to buy it, or lose/don't even play. That's the way Beyblade is, You have to buy those parts.

Also, are we forgetting, we need clear wheel's, tracks and bottoms too. RF, R²F and LRF are not the newer 4D Beyblades or Maximum ? MB is not part of them either, in fact RS, RSF, CS, D, WD, PD, SD, and a lot more useful bottoms are part of the older beyblades. GB145 and CH120 are also tracks that are not part of the newer beyblades.

Lightning L Drago, Meteo L Drago.

So yeah, the metagame does not [i]completely[i] revolve around Maximum beyblades.
(May. 03, 2011  6:21 PM)Electric Wrote: [ -> ]
(May. 03, 2011  6:10 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: [ -> ]

think of the second list for those who don't/can't get the maximum series at all, right now the tournaments are like "have the maximum or lose/don't even play"
Well, they got to buy it, or lose/don't even play.

what if they can't/are not allowed huh, so they should just give up the sport?

wow that is just mean man, just so mean...
(May. 03, 2011  6:19 PM)♥ Wrote: [ -> ]This post typifies a lot of other posts on this thread; a lot of you are missing Yamislayer's point completely.

He is fully aware that new parts will outclass the old. That's not important - what he is addressing however, is the disuse of older, outclassed parts. It's not about making the game fairer for people who don't have access to Maximum Series parts either.

Yamislayer's proposal will create a totally new metagame, where different parts and styles thrive because others won't be there. It's the equivalent of a format where all top-tier customisations/parts are banned, paving the way for a whole host of other parts.

It's really exciting in my opinion, but I'm still yet to see how this can fitted into our current competition structure.

Well, I'm sorry I missed the point.

Well, now that I understand it that way, It's a pretty nice idea.

But, if we do make a whole other metagame, where parts that are awesome aren't there, Since there are such limited amounts of beyblades in the awesome part meta-game, And lots in the other, won't most people switch to the other metagame ? And this one will be all alone with very low players?
(May. 03, 2011  6:28 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: [ -> ]
(May. 03, 2011  6:21 PM)Electric Wrote: [ -> ]
(May. 03, 2011  6:10 PM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: [ -> ]

think of the second list for those who don't/can't get the maximum series at all, right now the tournaments are like "have the maximum or lose/don't even play"
Well, they got to buy it, or lose/don't even play.

what if they can't/are not allowed huh, so they should just give up the sport?

wow that is just mean man, just so mean...
True, bro. But, the current meta-game is like that anyway, if people don't use good beyblades that they aren't allowed to get, they will eventually lose.

Besides, they don't have to use Maximum series beyblades, They can use so many more top-tiers, or even Beat Lynx, or some other beyblades, they can still win, it's not only about tiers, skill matters a lot too you know.
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