to my opinion, you could just go "releases before hell kerbecs" "everything" for the two formats

That's kind of what I was thinking. I don't personally have any of the Season 2+ beys other than Gravity Perseus, but from test results, and what people have said, the oloder parts really don't have much of a chance. Younger players will be faced with this problem in tournaments, such as the last one where some of the younger players who aren't able to buy bey online, because that their parents won't do it, or they just don't know how. If you're only able to use some of the older parts like Hasbros Metal Fusion, this will definitally be a problem. But this will be remedied soon by the release of Metal Masters. Not many people have the 4D beys quite yet, so they aren't really a problem. They'll be one in the future though.

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How do I still have 17th most posts here...?

going off topic:

"BUT,

Older beyblades were tested by older users. We now have a different launch, a more effective one. "

uhm, i really cannot agree with this one. Older bkaders keep playing have both the new launch techniques, the old ones, and way more experience

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Oh Mighty Ocean, guide us as we journey through the darkest pit of night.

"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

Most of the things you've listed as basalt's fault sucked way before basalt was around... Also Pegasis' loss of use has nothing at all to do with basalt. It's because it doesn't do very well against rubber defence bottoms.

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It's really exciting in my opinion, but I'm still yet to see how this can fitted into our current competition structure.

Maybe something alike to "drafting" parts seen in tcg's? So as to make the game have more of an inclination to perceived "skill", decision making and spontaneous incarnations of concepts; from a limited pool of parts.

I play this with my father sometimes, and it really sharpens my skills when I have to pick between CS or Basalt and I know I cannot have both.

Besides, they don't have to use Maximum series beyblades, They can use so many more top-tiers, or even Beat Lynx, or some other beyblades, they can still win, it's not only about tiers, skill matters a lot too you know.

*sigh*, i meant like maximum and after (piratically only able/allowed to get beys before the maximum series, so no maximum or after maximum)

so lets say boy 1 can only get before maximum/only hasbro parts (parts like earth), boy 2 can get all beys
they have around equal skill

who wins? obviously boy 2 as his parts are not outclassed

that is what i mean

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Maybe we could have some sort of restricted tourneys where only certain parts can be used. I myself was thinking of a pre-hybrid cup where only parts released before Storm Pegasis could be used. Perhaps that would be more balanced than our current metagame. Something like that.

Maybe we could have some sort of restricted tourneys where only certain parts can be used. I myself was thinking of a pre-hybrid cup where only parts released before Storm Pegasis could be used. Perhaps that would be more balanced than our current metagame. Something like that.

*Cough* Libra *Cough*

Maybe we could have some sort of restricted tourneys where only certain parts can be used. I myself was thinking of a pre-hybrid cup where only parts released before Storm Pegasis could be used. Perhaps that would be more balanced than our current metagame. Something like that.

Many people don't have many Pre- HWS parts, especially those who have never bought from abroad (ie. only Hasbro)/

Also, it would be literally only Libra parts involved. << Beaten, *sigh*

A nice idea though, I'd go to a restricted parts tourney, like no Basalt/230 combos or w/e

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Proud member of DualDestroyers

((§)) I WAS 6th in the UK/ 15th Worldwide ((§))

Would you rather use the latest Cell phone released, or would you like to use the 'telephone' Invented by Graham Bell ?

What I am trying to get at is, as newer products are released, companies work on making the next product better.

Otsu rightly said that this is the evolution of the meta-game. We don't need a second format. Maximum series Beyblades are awesome, sure. But you saw the Beat results right ? After all you were the one to refer me to them. Right Spin Attack Beyblades don't really do well against the modern Defense types, but Beat did.

Back on topic, newer Beyblades will be released, and those newer beyblades will become better and better. So we might even forget about the older ones.

In the plastic generation, Wolborg 1 was one of the first series Beys and even after the release of V-Force and G-Revolution Beys, Bearing Core 1 still remained one of the best parts in the metagame. The fact that the plastic series was so diverse and that every Bey had it's weaknesses (Okay, maybe excluding Zombies) was what made all or at least most parts usable in one way or another, no matter how old it was or what series it came from. This way, we had a wider range of combos and possibilities and we'd never have to put up with mirror matches and seeing the same parts all the time.

In MFB, we only ever have the same parts being used in tournaments. I mean, who ever reaches the finals without parts like MF-H, Basalt, Hell, 230, BD145, D series, CS etc? Even with a anti-meta combo like the Lightning Tank, it's not like we'll start finding counters to that and guessing that our opponent just happened to pick Lightning Tank. Even with that, people still continue to pick top tier Beys and at the end we still have the same Beys used to make it to the top. Additionally, the parts used to make Lightning Tank will also seem to appear more often since everyone knows it can beat other Beys that everyone tends to use.

So there are more mirror matches, more of the same parts, new parts will be released and we will only use those, the other older parts will vanish and Beyblade is just another Rock-Paper-Scissors game where all you need is up to date Beyblade parts, good knowledge of combos and a bit of luck. You either have these parts or lose.

Would you rather use the latest Cell phone released, or would you like to use the 'telephone' Invented by Graham Bell ?

What I am trying to get at is, as newer products are released, companies work on making the next product better.

Otsu rightly said that this is the evolution of the meta-game. We don't need a second format. Maximum series Beyblades are awesome, sure. But you saw the Beat results right ? After all you were the one to refer me to them. Right Spin Attack Beyblades don't really do well against the modern Defense types, but Beat did.

Back on topic, newer Beyblades will be released, and those newer beyblades will become better and better. So we might even forget about the older ones.

In the plastic generation, Wolborg 1 was one of the first series Beys and even after the release of V-Force and G-Revolution Beys, Bearing Core 1 still remained one of the best parts in the metagame. The fact that the plastic series was so diverse and that every Bey had it's weaknesses (Okay, maybe excluding Zombies) was what made all or at least most parts usable in one way or another, no matter how old it was or what series it came from. This way, we had a wider range of combos and possibilities and we'd never have to put up with mirror matches and seeing the same parts all the time.

In MFB, we only ever have the same parts being used in tournaments. I mean, who ever reaches the finals without parts like MF-H, Basalt, Hell, 230, BD145, D series, CS etc? Even with a anti-meta combo like the Lightning Tank, it's not like we'll start finding counters to that and guessing that our opponent just happened to pick Lightning Tank. Even with that, people still continue to pick top tier Beys and at the end we still have the same Beys used to make it to the top. Additionally, the parts used to make Lightning Tank will also seem to appear more often since everyone knows it can beat other Beys that everyone tends to use.

So there are more mirror matches, more of the same parts, new parts will be released and we will only use those, the other older parts will vanish and Beyblade is just another Rock-Paper-Scissors game where all you need is up to date Beyblade parts, good knowledge of combos and a bit of luck. You either have these parts or lose.

THATMAKESITNOFUN.

Think about it. Not EVERYONE has the money to buy all the good parts, and if you have all the good parts, why even continue to collect and play Beyblade anymore, if you have the combo that will ensure your win? I love messing around with the parts and making combos that are ENTIRELY outclassed. MF Poison Saggitario 125F was my favorite combo for a while, because it was interesting to watch for the result, and did really neat things in the stadium. If you have the tank MF-H Basalt Kerbecs/Bull BD145MB/Hell Kerbecs BD145WD/ MF-H Basalt Kerbecs/Bull 230CS, then that fun is gone, because 99% of the time, you win!

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If you have the tank MF-H Basalt Kerbecs/Bull BD145MB/Hell Kerbecs BD145WD/ MF-H Basalt Kerbecs/Bull 230CS, then that fun is gone, because 99% of the time, you win!

198% in a mirror match lolwut?

Anyway, people DO have fun with non-competetive combos in free-play. The sheer number of free-play battles are titanic compared to battles that actually count in the Beypoints system. I really think more fun(for me at least) is had in the hilarity of free-play than in serious tournament battles.

If you have the tank MF-H Basalt Kerbecs/Bull BD145MB/Hell Kerbecs BD145WD/ MF-H Basalt Kerbecs/Bull 230CS, then that fun is gone, because 99% of the time, you win!

198% in a mirror match lolwut?

Anyway, people DO have fun with non-competetive combos in free-play. The sheer number of free-play battles are titanic compared to battles that actually count in the Beypoints system. I really think more fun(for me at least) is had in the hilarity of free-play than in serious tournament battles.

I was trying to say "most of the time, if you have at least 1 of these combos, you will win"

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most of the wheels listed are low tiers without basalt ---> i agree.

being a low tier is different from useless, anyway.

---

Oh Mighty Ocean, guide us as we journey through the darkest pit of night.

"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

It's really exciting in my opinion, but I'm still yet to see how this can fitted into our current competition structure.

Maybe something alike to "drafting" parts seen in tcg's? So as to make the game have more of an inclination to perceived "skill", decision making and spontaneous incarnations of concepts; from a limited pool of parts.

I play this with my father sometimes, and it really sharpens my skills when I have to pick between CS or Basalt and I know I cannot have both.

This is really interesting, but I suppose it requires a pool of parts to come from somewhere, haha. The Deck Set System, where players choose 3 Beyblades and have to use them one after another, can be looked at too.

If you have the tank MF-H Basalt Kerbecs/Bull BD145MB/Hell Kerbecs BD145WD/ MF-H Basalt Kerbecs/Bull 230CS, then that fun is gone, because 99% of the time, you win!

198% in a mirror match lolwut?

Anyway, people DO have fun with non-competetive combos in free-play. The sheer number of free-play battles are titanic compared to battles that actually count in the Beypoints system. I really think more fun(for me at least) is had in the hilarity of free-play than in serious tournament battles.

Yeah - a lot of members have said this lots of times. I personally enjoy using the ranking system (and I think it is completely revolutionary in terms of application in a relatively small hobby), I also think there should be scope to use parts you do want to. Arguably, creativity isn't rewarded enough at the moment.

I also think there should be scope to use parts you do want to.

I used the parts I wanted to at Summer's Eve Showdown; FS and HF/S, but they were conjoined with Basalt or BD145. The only reason why my combos were viable was because of the Basalt or BD145; the other parts only played a secondary role in the concept. I haven't been able to successfully use any combos of late that didn't rely on the prominent maximum series parts.

I would be willing to try a new metagame consisting of a ban on top tier combos, or one that works on a point system:

Each beyblader has a max of 100 points(Or 10 etc., just base it upon a number that's suitable for balancing the metagame) and each part costs a certain number of points, with top tier parts costing between 40-50, ensuring that no 2 top tier parts could be used in conjunction, as points would be needed for the rest of the bey.

e.g:
Lightning L drago - 60 points
Rock - 30 points
Dark - 10 points
Storm - 25 points

BD145 - 55 points
230 - 55 points
GB145 - 45 points
C145 - 25 points

WD - 30 poitns
CS - 40 points
RF/R2F/LRF - 55 points

MF - 15 points
MF-2 variants - 20 points
Obviously these won't exactly be good numbers to go by, but I think a limiting system like this might be good, akin to how RPG stats usually work.

EDIT: I.e, placing a "max" limit on certain attributes etc.

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the best way to know how to do this is testing it.
Let's try something like this. When meeting other players,try to play only with parts released BEFORE hell kerbecs.
just try it and let me know how's that. Let's see if it's at least fun to play and general thoughts about it.
I think I'll take notes of other ppl ideas (like momiji manju's one) and keep them in a list, anyway.
Let's assume that for some reason, metagame "before kerbecs" is terribly unbalanced, we could try something different.

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Oh Mighty Ocean, guide us as we journey through the darkest pit of night.

"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

I would be willing to try a new metagame consisting of a ban on top tier combos, or one that works on a point system:

Each beyblader has a max of 100 points(Or 10 etc., just base it upon a number that's suitable for balancing the metagame) and each part costs a certain number of points, with top tier parts costing between 40-50, ensuring that no 2 top tier parts could be used in conjunction, as points would be needed for the rest of the bey.

e.g:
Lightning L drago - 60 points
Rock - 30 points
Dark - 10 points
Storm - 25 points

BD145 - 55 points
230 - 55 points
GB145 - 45 points
C145 - 25 points

WD - 30 poitns
CS - 40 points
RF/R2F/LRF - 55 points

MF - 15 points
MF-2 variants - 20 points
Obviously these won't exactly be good numbers to go by, but I think a limiting system like this might be good, akin to how RPG stats usually work.

EDIT: I.e, placing a "max" limit on certain attributes etc.

Means that we won't be able to use rubber based attack tips with LLD...

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Team Ωmega Nova; The bladers of the Stars RULE!
Join for Sydney area, PM me. SDamonCronus made this sick sig!
Since Bluezee is the Beast of the East, I must be the BEST OF THE WEST!
Funniest Quote!

Spoiler (Click to View)

However, I wouldn't hurt Dani. But I do like the idea!

:djuh:

I would be willing to try a new metagame consisting of a ban on top tier combos, or one that works on a point system:

Each beyblader has a max of 100 points(Or 10 etc., just base it upon a number that's suitable for balancing the metagame) and each part costs a certain number of points, with top tier parts costing between 40-50, ensuring that no 2 top tier parts could be used in conjunction, as points would be needed for the rest of the bey.

[Points]

Obviously these won't exactly be good numbers to go by, but I think a limiting system like this might be good, akin to how RPG stats usually work.

EDIT: I.e, placing a "max" limit on certain attributes etc.

Theoretically this is good, but in practice, this is way too complex for many members and difficult to implement in a tournament situation.

I understand what your Saying it would make Life Beyblade better. But the Question I ask is how would Tournaments be Run? New Threads, More things to Moderate I dont think this site can handle Yet. (I am probably wrong You Committee Members probably know if you can)

Like what Smogon have done but you must see Smogon is a Ginormous Site who Set the Guidelines for EVERYONES Online Pokemon.

I know and Believe it would be good but it would be Hard to pull off.

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Credit to Omega.
UniquE - Professional Beyblade team located in Melbourne.

Spoiler (Click to View)

Theoretically this is good, but in practice, this is way too complex for many members and difficult to implement in a tournament situation.

What i was thinking earlier is that people could bring only a set number of beys (lets say, 3) and have them approved as they sign up to the tournament.

Although there is the problem of confidentiality, and lack of variety with everybody's combo.

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Actually, this is quiet a cool Idea, I would love to try it. Great Idea Yamislayer. And momiji manju's idea is really a good way to play the meta-game.

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Signature was too large. Read the rules.

THATMAKESITNOFUN.

Think about it. Not EVERYONE has the money to buy all the good parts, and if you have all the good parts, why even continue to collect and play Beyblade anymore, if you have the combo that will ensure your win? I love messing around with the parts and making combos that are ENTIRELY outclassed. MF Poison Saggitario 125F was my favorite combo for a while, because it was interesting to watch for the result, and did really neat things in the stadium. If you have the tank MF-H Basalt Kerbecs/Bull BD145MB/Hell Kerbecs BD145WD/ MF-H Basalt Kerbecs/Bull 230CS, then that fun is gone, because 99% of the time, you win!

Err... that's what I was trying to point out.

i have a idea myself which i kinda already posted, but i would like to bring it back up

i have two examples:
so lets say someone wants to organize a tournament but doesn't have parts from maximum and beyond (take me for example), so to not get crushed he can make a tournament within the tier his parts are in

or, someone is organizing a tournament and doesn't want to see/do mirror matches, so he does a lower list so people have more diversity

so tier one (maximum and beyond)

tier two (RS/RSF/CS introduced)

tier three (WB and C145 used for defence)

so i think it would be good like that, and then just state what list to use in the thread

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Just putting in my two cents that I love Yamislayers idea of a Non-Maximum Onwards and Maximum On Included Split. It's sad to see how many previously good wheels were destroyed.

However, there are obvious outliers... Screw, for example. I know it's maximum series, but let's be honest, it's not OverPowered by any stretch of the imagination, but in a metagame without basalt and bd145 around every corner, it'd actually be a great part. Not AMAZING (Vulcan is better, methinks).
The other one is every part of Killer Beafowl. Also, 130 and W2D. I could go on.

Personally, I'd like to keep it simpler, but to give parts fair usage, maybe we do what pokemon communities do, and define parts as "Uber". Hell, BD145, Basalt, 230, maybe RS or RSF (though MF, if allowed, would do plenty to handle them), and probably Fang and Beat would be uber (as fang would be horrific without basalt to balance it out).
Not sure how Big Bang and LDD would do without basalt, so that would need to be investigated. We'd need to set up a threshold to define what was uber (though banning new parts by default may be a good idea). This would be quite an amount of work, though, for the decision makers, and tournament hosts. Probably too much for it to be an official thing... Even in the simplest format of "Maximum and On-ALL BANNED" would be difficult, and again, probably too difficult.


Wolfblade, I like that tier idea, but IMO CS isn't really that hard to KO. I'd honestly just have tier two as RS/RSF removed. CS is perfectly easy to KO, even on Libruh. You can go back and see that Screw, which isn't as good as vulcan, gets a good win rate against CS (I'm not sure if it was Earth or Libruh, or both, that I tested on, but yeah). Though, for tier two, you might consider Libra, though I'm not really that sure on that.

Still, I think it would be nice to give us a much more varied metagame than the somewhat disappointingly narrow one we have now (BASALT. EVERYWHERE.)

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