haha actually I was testing that yesterday with 85 but it loses balance and scrapes so.. AD145 next? Again, reinforcement of what Kei said earlier; think I should put up a Pre Top-Tier thread exclusively for testing/discussion of things like this? I'll do official tests for Basalt stamina-wise.
Competitive Metal Fight Beyblade Combos
![[Image: uKF94LK.gif]](https://i.imgur.com/uKF94LK.gif)
I was thinking more of Basalt on 230, haha.
I like the idea of the thread. It would really help us confirm the 'rumors' floating around the forums.
I also think that we should consider the Italian Metagame's Top-Tier combos as well.
I like the idea of the thread. It would really help us confirm the 'rumors' floating around the forums.
I also think that we should consider the Italian Metagame's Top-Tier combos as well.
![[Image: siggy3small.jpg]](https://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9283/siggy3small.jpg)
I'll test out anything, just need a place to put it. Italian Metagame thread? Okay, but does it serve a purpose to us since we tend to be on opposite sides of the spectrum during tournaments?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb9zP7MI4...r_embedded
Basalt bd145 MB.
if you want to test it, remember to get used a bit with it, because you must know how to shoot against attack and stamina with this
Basalt bd145 MB.
if you want to test it, remember to get used a bit with it, because you must know how to shoot against attack and stamina with this
(Mar. 26, 2011 7:28 AM)Yamislayer Wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb9zP7MI4...r_embeddedIn which position should Basalt and BD145 be in?
Basalt bd145 MB.
if you want to test it, remember to get used a bit with it, because you must know how to shoot against attack and stamina with this
In this position, the Bey is very off balance and is significantly more unstable.
Whereas the other position helps reduce Basalt's 'off balance-ness' and is considerably more stable.
It looks very promising in the video though, looking forward to try this out. :)
EDIT after like a month XD: I just realized that I mixed up the two pics in this post. It's fixed now though.
I think i forgot about that, i'll check later =)
I was testing MF-H Basalt BD145CS and no attack bey was able to KO it, the only combo capable to win even once was MF Gravity Perseus AD145RF (Right Spin, Counter.) which smashed it enough for it to be properly OS. Basalt and BD145 together is pretty broken haha. (I used the 'other'/second position of BD145 though it doesn't even matter when against Attack types.)
Is anyone considering that Earth is becoming outclassed weight-wise? It's about 15 grams lighter than Basalt, and even though it has a round shape, it seems to be easily knocked around compared to Basalt and sometimes even Libra, for me at least.
Well of course it would be pushed around easier, for obvious reasons, but somehow I never even use Earth now that I have Basalt. (I use it for stamina, and even then Basalt could possibly be better.) Guessing a Basalt vs. Libra vs. Earth should be put up? Or would the Basalt testing thread be enough of a resource for this matter?
Testing the three in a specific thread would be the most ideal, because we would have quick access to how the Wheels perform as they would be on one page. I don't think Basalt is better for Stamina than Earth because of its little indent as Oki has mentioned in one of his videos.
![[Image: Untitled-3_edited-1.jpg]](https://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad17/Pyroken8/Untitled-3_edited-1.jpg)
In terms of pure stamina Basalt loses hands down, but due to it's shape it's able to deliver KOs or smash other stamina combos hard enough for them to be outspinned, at least, in my experience.
If there's a page on stamina for this, it should contain Burn as well.
If there's a page on stamina for this, it should contain Burn as well.
![[Image: Raykon%20-%20Signature2.png]](https://dmsss.webs.com/Raykon%20-%20Signature2.png)
Basalt has a bad solo spin, but its shape, weight and recoil strongly reduce opponents' rotations,
not mentioning the high possibility of KOing it, it's still a very good wheel for stamina in my opinion.
(also watch the video I posted before)
not mentioning the high possibility of KOing it, it's still a very good wheel for stamina in my opinion.
(also watch the video I posted before)
I was wondering when we might have a revamp of this list, seeing as certain things aren't on it, and some still are. I think Gravity has proven to be quite a good attack wheel, no? Very versatile. Hell Kerbecs BD145WD, BD145 in general and I only assume because of weight, Kerbecs. Is there something stopping us there, that I don't realize? The customization forum is moving very fast lately and keeping up is quite something.
(Apr. 23, 2011 5:10 PM)Dan Wrote: The customization forum is moving very fast lately and keeping up is quite something.
That's the problem, I think. I'm just now starting to catch up with everything since the semester is coming to an end.
What does everyone think of removing GB145 in Defense and replacing it with BD145? Or does GB145 still deserve a spot?
(Apr. 24, 2011 12:08 AM)Kei Wrote: That's the problem, I think. I'm just now starting to catch up with everything since the semester is coming to an end.
What does everyone think of removing GB145 in Defense and replacing it with BD145? Or does GB145 still deserve a spot?
I do not think concrete comparative tests have been made, especially if CH120 is apparently reconsidered too ...
(Apr. 24, 2011 2:46 AM)Kai-V Wrote: I do not think concrete comparative tests have been made, especially if CH120 is apparently reconsidered too ...
I don't think it was really reconsidered some just re-found its capabilities in defense. (Which obviously didn't stack up in the past, so why would it be considered now, when we have even better tracks than the ones when it got booted?) I honestly don't think it should be near here right now, though I do enjoy using it. BD145 does around 2-fold better than CH120 in my small tests, and though I don't have GB145 I can only assume it is better than CH120. Unless some exponentially better results are had with BD145 over GB145, I don't think it should be taken off, but BD145 just added. I have absolutely no experience with GB145 so I'm not going to outright say it is lower than BD145 because I don't know. Just throwing my thought out there..
As with Stamina types, it is completely possible that one Metal Wheel works better with one Defense Track, and the other equal Metal Wheel works with another Defense Track best.
Things I should test soon ...
Things I should test soon ...
as you can see in customization forum, MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145 MB/CS is considered a top tier by everyone who tried it.
There is a thread dedicated on it and how to counter that.
Before this, i made a video of it taking down the entire tier list with little to no problems at all.
at the moment, -Basalt BD145- CS for defense, MB for combination, ES for stamina and Basalt 230 CS are so strong that the metagame is evolving into something like:
play it, or play one of its counters.
and playing counters isn't as viable as playing them, cause they don't do that well against other combos.
the main problem is that this can't really be balanced with rules updates.
ban basalt? TT is making large and heavy metal wheels. The risk is that once banned it, pieces that actually win against it are released
ban 230? they just made a trple height track that goes up to 220.
ban hell? With basalt legal, banning hell alone is like telling a racist joke to someone who would be offended by it.
ban bd145? Banning the use of bd145 would make sense if it would be banned when paired to basalt. banning it alone ruins a part of defense metagame in general plus it doesn't ruin basalt at all.
imagine that tt won't ever release anything else for a moment.
in that case, basalt ban would help the metagame, but it would create again the 230 problem,
230 makes matchups so unbalanced that even a huge skill difference between two players could be not relevant if both players can at least shoot at least in a decent way.
banning 230 would create problems as well, cause a skilled player would have a ridicolous win% with a low hell rf combo.
banning hell too?
well, that would mean banning Basalt, 230 and Hell suddenly, and banning pieces shouldn't be an abused option, and it should be avoided when possible.
That's why i think we need to wait a short period of time before updating this
There is a thread dedicated on it and how to counter that.
Before this, i made a video of it taking down the entire tier list with little to no problems at all.
at the moment, -Basalt BD145- CS for defense, MB for combination, ES for stamina and Basalt 230 CS are so strong that the metagame is evolving into something like:
play it, or play one of its counters.
and playing counters isn't as viable as playing them, cause they don't do that well against other combos.
the main problem is that this can't really be balanced with rules updates.
ban basalt? TT is making large and heavy metal wheels. The risk is that once banned it, pieces that actually win against it are released
ban 230? they just made a trple height track that goes up to 220.
ban hell? With basalt legal, banning hell alone is like telling a racist joke to someone who would be offended by it.
ban bd145? Banning the use of bd145 would make sense if it would be banned when paired to basalt. banning it alone ruins a part of defense metagame in general plus it doesn't ruin basalt at all.
imagine that tt won't ever release anything else for a moment.
in that case, basalt ban would help the metagame, but it would create again the 230 problem,
230 makes matchups so unbalanced that even a huge skill difference between two players could be not relevant if both players can at least shoot at least in a decent way.
banning 230 would create problems as well, cause a skilled player would have a ridicolous win% with a low hell rf combo.
banning hell too?
well, that would mean banning Basalt, 230 and Hell suddenly, and banning pieces shouldn't be an abused option, and it should be avoided when possible.
That's why i think we need to wait a short period of time before updating this
(Apr. 24, 2011 8:28 AM)Yamislayer Wrote: at the moment, -Basalt BD145- CS for defense, MB for combination, ES for stamina and Basalt 230 CS are so strong that the metagame is evolving into something like:
play it, or play one of its counters.
ban bd145? Banning the use of bd145 would make sense if it would be banned when paired to basalt. banning it alone ruins a part of defense metagame in general plus it doesn't ruin basalt at all.
what the heck
Why would you ever use ES for Stamina?
I might agree with you about BD145. Basalt can be beaten, 230 can be beaten, Hell can be beaten, but it's BD145 that is the catalyst. Don't quote me on this, but based on what little testing I have done, and what I have read, MF-H Basalt Aquario GB145CS doesn't seem to be nearly as good as the BD145 variant. And that makes sense; just looking at BD145, you can tell how good it would be defensively.
However, it isn't just Basalt + BD145 that is problematic, Hell + BD145 is too. It completely dominates most other Stamina customs.
ES is pretty good with BD145, cause it's a tall bottom, but nothing more, MB and CS are better in my opinion
about bd145: yeah, when paired to hell and basalt it becomes pretty painful.
about bd145: yeah, when paired to hell and basalt it becomes pretty painful.
MF-H Basalt _____ BD145CS/MB isn't too hard to beat though?
I've said it before, but MF-H Basalt ____ UW145CS can beat it with pretty decent win rates(at least, against MB, haven't done much against CS) by pushing it into floor scrapes.
It's the lack of daring that's narrowing the metagame, not the combos.
It's pretty much a safer version of the attack dominance we experienced before the maximum series.
I've said it before, but MF-H Basalt ____ UW145CS can beat it with pretty decent win rates(at least, against MB, haven't done much against CS) by pushing it into floor scrapes.
It's the lack of daring that's narrowing the metagame, not the combos.
It's pretty much a safer version of the attack dominance we experienced before the maximum series.
hmm i don't know.
lack of daring, i think that's not enough. basalt 230 cs outspins almost everything, and is a good def customization.
Better then good, I'd say it's a great defense custom,
a basalt combo beating a basalt combo is a bit "meh"
also, did your basalt bd145 mb have an attack movement? if yes, didn't the recoil of two basalt KO/ the uw145 cs custom?
uhm, and just asking, why UW145?
lack of daring, i think that's not enough. basalt 230 cs outspins almost everything, and is a good def customization.
Better then good, I'd say it's a great defense custom,
a basalt combo beating a basalt combo is a bit "meh"
also, did your basalt bd145 mb have an attack movement? if yes, didn't the recoil of two basalt KO/ the uw145 cs custom?
uhm, and just asking, why UW145?
To be honest, the combo was made for fun, not to be competitive. I chose UW145 for some attack power against LTDC/LTSCs, but mainly for aesthetics.
The BD145MB custom did have an aggressive pattern, which resulted in a KO, but more by nudging out the UW145 custom.
Basalt 230 is definitely hard to beat though, I won't question that.
The BD145MB custom did have an aggressive pattern, which resulted in a KO, but more by nudging out the UW145 custom.
Basalt 230 is definitely hard to beat though, I won't question that.
I don't see exactly why its hard to beat, unless you mean in tournaments where people treat Attack types like they are a taboo. In which case, it is hard to beat.
I don't think BD145 should be banned at all. I've beaten it with 145 height stamina combos. Basalt on 230 isn't so hard to beat either if you use 145.
![[Image: IkkiSignature.jpg]](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/Gigamew/IkkiSignature.jpg)