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Burst Standard Ban Proposal: Ban Super Ring Rage and Chassis 3A

Jul. 10, 2020  9:36 PM
 
After seeing extensive testing with Rage and 3A, I have come to the conclusion that Rage and 3A need to be banned from Burst Standard. Rage specifically has shown to be very powerful with almost no counters. These two parts have different Reasons why they should be banned. Let’s start with 3A first.

3A:
3A has been shown to damage parts such as the rubber in the Mirage ring and also Lord. Because of this, I think 3A needs to be banned. Unlike parts such as 12, 3A cannot be covered up with parts like frames as chassis’ are not compatible with those. With no way to legally prevent damage using 3A, it should be banned.

Rage: 
Rage has been shown to be very powerful in the many tests that have been done, and counters have been very few. Let’s look at some test results with people who used TT Standard Stadiums in their testing.
Spoiler (Click to View)

While there were a couple counters, I feel the meta would be incredibly non-diverse if Rage was kept in Burst Standard. The meta would be Rage Longinus and KO Defense combos, which is hardly anything. For these reasons, I think Rage needs to be banned. Let me know what you guys think as well. I want feedback on this.
Jul. 10, 2020  9:43 PM
 
3A is likely ban worthy. As you said earlier, it’s the 3A chassis that destroys beys (an effect that is seemingly further amplified by the rage ring aligning perfectly with it). I noticed that in all your testings Rage was paired with 3A and logically, that is likely the reason why it is so overpowered evident by the number of KO’s the combo got (the specialty of upper attack is pretty much getting knockouts). By banning 3A, the large elongated upper attack slopes created by its alignment with the rage ring can not exist and it would also prevent Longinus combos from apparently dominating the meta and breaking beys. I think the Rage ring should be tested with other chassis to conclude on whether it should truly be banned or not because it seems like it’s the combination of the ring and chassis that is particularly overpowered and not the individual parts themselves. If this is the case then Rage may as well stay while 3A is banned for its destructive tendencies.
Jul. 10, 2020  9:52 PM
 
(Jul. 10, 2020  9:43 PM)Zeutron Wrote: 3A is likely ban worthy. As you said earlier, it’s the 3A chassis that destroys beys (an effect that is seemingly further amplified by the rage ring aligning perfectly with it). I noticed that in all your testings Rage was paired with 3A and logically, that is likely the reason why it is so overpowered evident by the number of KO’s the combo got (the specialty of upper attack is pretty much getting knockouts). By banning 3A, the large elongated upper attack slopes created by its alignment with the rage ring can not exist and it would also prevent Longinus combos from apparently dominating the meta and breaking beys. I think the Rage ring should be tested with other chassis to conclude on Whether it should truly be banned or not.

I’ve heard of testing with Rage on 2S, and how it seemed to do slightly better than on 3A. I can’t confirm these test results quite yet until they’re posted by the people who tested them though, as I don’t have Rage Longinus yet.
Jul. 10, 2020  10:03 PM
 
(Jul. 10, 2020  9:52 PM)BuilderROB Wrote: I’ve heard of testing with Rage on 2S, and how it seemed to do slightly better than on 3A. I can’t confirm these test results quite yet until they’re posted by the people who tested them though, as I don’t have Rage Longinus yet.
My Rage Longinus hasn’t arrived yet either and I’ve only seen it in action from a friend but that sounds really interesting. It’s possible that the 2D chassis slightly sticks out of Rage Longinus creating large gaps and that combined with the metal dragon heads (which no longer create a slope but rather leave even more gaps) create a smash attack combo rather than upper attack. Maybe there are better counters for a left spin smash attacker?
Jul. 10, 2020  10:40 PM
 
Brave Valkyrie with Zone can beat it.
Jul. 10, 2020  10:43 PM
 
(Jul. 10, 2020  10:40 PM)g2_ Wrote: Brave Valkyrie with Zone can beat it.

(Jul. 10, 2020  9:36 PM)BuilderROB Wrote: While there were a couple counters, I feel the meta would be incredibly non-diverse if Rage was kept in Burst Standard. The meta would be Rage Longinus and KO Defense combos, which is hardly anything.
Jul. 10, 2020  10:46 PM
 
(Jul. 10, 2020  10:40 PM)g2_ Wrote: Brave Valkyrie with Zone can beat it.
It’s not a great idea to try and counter a threat with a bey that can only counter that one threat. Zone is all in all not great.
Jul. 10, 2020  11:43 PM
 
Can’t u just ban 3A only instead of rage?
Jul. 10, 2020  11:49 PM
 
Judgment wins at an unusually high rate, especially with the wall bounce rules still being outdated and how fast those matches end. Judgment breaks pieces. Judgment is on almost every winning combination list across both WBO and Japanese tournaments. Unfortunately, power creep is part of the game. Banning this piece would mean that burst standard would become a bit messy, since we're not even a quarter way through the Sparking line. There will be pieces that likely eclipse 3A that would then need to be banned as well. It would be not only easier but better going forward to not create a ban list for standard. You just need to embrace a new base level of power.
Jul. 11, 2020  12:10 AM
 
(Jul. 10, 2020  11:49 PM)Mr. Palazzo Wrote: Judgment wins at an unusually high rate, especially with the wall bounce rules still being outdated and how fast those matches end. Judgment breaks pieces. Judgment is on almost every winning combination list across both WBO and Japanese tournaments. Unfortunately, power creep is part of the game. Banning this piece would mean that burst standard would become a bit messy, since we're not even a quarter way through the Sparking line. There will be pieces that likely eclipse 3A that would then need to be banned as well. It would be not only easier but better going forward to not create a ban list for standard. You just need to embrace a new base level of power.
Don’t remember judgement consistently breaking parts of beys.
Jul. 11, 2020  12:15 AM
 
I've lost so much to Judgment that I'm concerned whenever I play games with my friends and it comes up. Two different Dead Hades, Gold Sting, Red Sting, Blitz, Bearing, Atomic and my gold Winning Valkyrie layer have all met their end to that Beyblade.

Edit - Oh, and Volcanic'. How could I forget the tip getting ripped out from the underside of the driver?
Jul. 11, 2020  12:18 AM
 
(Jul. 11, 2020  12:15 AM)Mr. Palazzo Wrote: I've lost so much to Judgment that I'm concerned whenever I play games with my friends and it comes up. Two different Dead Hades, Gold Sting, Red Sting, Blitz, Bearing, Atomic and my gold Winning Valkyrie layer have all met their end to that Beyblade.

Edit - Oh, and Volcanic'. How could I forget the tip getting ripped out from the underside of the driver?

That's because Judgement is good, but the recoil on the opponent and itself are pretty heavy, so there's risk in using it. Also, Volcanic gets awakened yes, but that isn't considered illegal from what I know. I think...
Jul. 11, 2020  12:21 AM
 
There's a difference between awakened and broken. Judgment's recoil doesn't diminish his overall use or dominance in the format. He crept the meta to a degree that couldn't be believed, and now it's happening again. You just gotta roll with the punches.
Jul. 11, 2020  12:44 AM
 
(Jul. 11, 2020  12:21 AM)Mr. Palazzo Wrote: There's a difference between awakened and broken. Judgment's recoil doesn't diminish his overall use or dominance in the format. He crept the meta to a degree that couldn't be believed, and now it's happening again. You just gotta roll with the punches.

I'm sure no one would've been complaining if something as good as as Rage had been released back in GT. Judgement and Zwei helped revive Attack Types, things like Imperial and Super helped maintain and diversify the Attack Type, and now Rage is taking it to another level. Things like that are bound to happen in a game that uses a power creep to help increase sales.
Edit: Also, big RIP for the parts that Judgement broke.
Jul. 11, 2020  1:27 AM
 
Maybe Rage with certain chassis can be banned instead of banning rage and 3A
Jul. 11, 2020  1:47 AM
 
(Jul. 11, 2020  1:27 AM)6Jupiter5 Wrote: Maybe Rage with certain chassis can be banned instead of banning rage and 3A
Or they can just ban the use of 3A and solve the overlying problems. 3A is likely still nearly as dangerous with King and Mirage-not competitive, but still dangerous nonetheless.
Jul. 11, 2020  2:11 AM
 
Has 3A been shown to damage non-rubber parts?  I have plenty of damaged rubber things like multiple judgements, 2A, Lord, and Mirage.  This all happened before 3A, so 3A definitely was not the cause.   I have heard 3A itself can be damaged but I actually haven’t heard of or seen it damage non-rubber parts myself.
Jul. 11, 2020  2:36 AM
 
I'll have to agree with Shindog, both my Lord and Wizard (also Judgement and Geist) were damaged over time, through a variety of battles. It seems to be pretty common among rubber parts, so banning 3A doesn't sound like a must right now
Jul. 11, 2020  2:38 AM
 
(Jul. 11, 2020  2:36 AM)DrPedrão Wrote: I'll have to agree with Shindog, both my Lord and Wizard (also Judgement and Geist) were damaged over time, through a variety of battles. It seems to be pretty common among rubber parts, so banning 3A doesn't sound like a must right now

3A doesn’t just wear down rubber, though. It goes through it much faster than what regular rubber would normally endure in a battle. I’d call that damage from 3A.
Jul. 11, 2020  6:36 AM
 
I can understand potentially banning 3A for the potential damage it can cause, but Rage itself should not be banned. If it is, we lose what is essentially the only left-spinning attack type of this generation. Zwei may not be outclassed yet, but with the Sparking releases we've seen so far, there's no guarantee that it would be able to fill the void that a Rage ban would create.

Also, while I understand that testing is very important, it is by no means an exact science. I understand that we're currently in the middle of a tournament drought (and I am NOT saying that we should start tournaments up anytime soon) but the abaolute best way to test a part is through tournament usage and winning combo results. Not to mention that by the time tournaments start up again, it's possible that Rage might not even be as big of a threat threat as it currently is.

Its performance is certainly something to take note of and keep an eye on, but I feel that it would be premature to ban anything at this time, except for perhaps 3A, due to the aforementioned risk of damage. We have plenty of time (and plenty of upcoming releases) to keep testing, and find what's capable of stopping Rage. And, as others have pointed out, banning 3A might in and of itself be enough to neuter Rage's dominance in the testing scene.
Jul. 11, 2020  7:07 AM
 
Maybe should wait until 2D or Superking Spriggan to come bcs not even a month has passed since rage released date....rage&3A strength might be what we want to beat Spriggan
Jul. 11, 2020  10:23 AM
 
I definitely think the rage + 3A should be banned just because how overpowered the bey is compare to the other even the counter can be canceled by other rage combos but i do still think that 2D might counter this if the gimmick turn out better than expected
Jul. 11, 2020  11:36 AM
 
So I did some testing to see if Rage has what it takes to beat one of my consistent combos.


(LC) Airknight Wheel Hold'
Vs
Rage Longinus 3A Spiral'

Airknight - Win OS
Airknight - Win OS
Rage - Win KO
Rage - Win KO
Airknight - Win OS
Airknight - Win OS
Airknight - Win OS
Airknight - Win KO
Rage - Win KO
Airknight - Win OS

(LC) Airknight Wheel Hold'
Vs
Rage Longinus 3A Destroy'

Airknight - Win OS
Airknight - Win OS
Rage - Win KO
Airknight - Win OS
Airknight - Win OS
Airknight - Win OS
Airknight - Win OS
Airknight - Win OS
Airknight - Win OS
Airknight - Win KO

People really need to explore more rather than call for a ban. Airknight made this look easy.

Edit - I'm now officially excited for the yellow Airknight to properly match my Hold' in color.

Edit 2 - More testing

(LC) Airknight Wheel Hold'
Vs
Rage Longinus 3A Ultimate Reboot'

Rage - Win KO
Airknight - Win OS
Airknight - Win KO
Airknight - Win OS
Rage - Win KO
Airknight - Win OS
Airknight - Win OS
Airknight - Win OS
Rage - Win KO
Rage - Win KO

I still don't see Rage or 3A being ban worthy.
Jul. 11, 2020  1:13 PM
 
Alright, so I was talking with BuilderROB yesterday about this, and I was actually going to post a thread like this today, but he beat me to it lol.
So, I've been doing testing of my own. Some of it is mentioned in this thread. But I have a few more tests that I need to post. Maybe this will change everyone's minds.
Tests (Click to View)
Jul. 11, 2020  2:10 PM
 
(Jul. 11, 2020  11:36 AM)Mr. Palazzo Wrote: So I did some testing to see if Rage has what it takes to beat one of my consistent combos.

Spoiler (Click to View)

While I do agree counters exist, and this is an interesting one indeed, my point still stands that the meta would be a “Rage Longinus and counters to that” kind of meta. Only two types of combos could coexist in this meta, and I don’t want that.
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