No, I mean why banning Libra again??? Thas my question,.

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No, I mean why banning Libra again??? Thas my question,.

They haven't decided on the ban yet. If a ban was placed there would be a good reason for it such as "it's overpowered" and other stuff.

Just something i had on mind for exceptions, W2D should be allowed. Tests have shown that its performance is near enough the same as WD.

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Libra for defense and attack is vicious, since banning Basalt, Libra will be used, but why ban it? Earth, is probably better, right?

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However, I wouldn't hurt Dani. But I do like the idea!

:djuh:

Libra for defense and attack is vicious, since banning Basalt, Libra will be used, but why ban it? Earth, is probably better, right?

Im not sure about earth being better but earth is pretty much round with not that much contact points am i right? Libra has its weight on the outside making it good for defense. Both paired with GB145 can make a pretty good defense combo. Before banning libra intense tests would have to be made to decide. I think that libra should not be banned, purely because of attack wheels such a lightning, meteo and vulcan can dominate, so a good counter is needed to balance it out.

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Yeah, but doesn't weight on outside, like burn, create stamina?

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Weight pretty much anywhere works for defence. On the outside, it is also good for stamina.

Libra IS stronger defensively than Earth. Common Knowledge. It’s attack isn’t that strong, either, Libra CH120RF struggled against MF(-H) Libra C145WB, so with CS and RS/RSF around, it’s really quite poor.

And, as opposed to doing tests on libra to ban it, if Libra dominates early tourneys in this format, then we ban the libra.
There ARE a bunch of tests in my old “Libra Re-Testing” Thread, which I linked to earlier in this thread. The only thing that really still needs testing would be Libra LTDC’s (MFH Libra 85CS, eg), but Lightning seems to manage against them, and low track attack will be common without 230/BD145 around.

Plus, not banning libra makes the rules impler to Understand, which we do have to focus on here.

Mushy, the main reason for not unbanning W2D right now is that it makes the banlist too complex, we need to keep it simple and understandable. DS is in the same boat (but maybe better, because it's not even that good).
Even Unbanning Screw Capricorne and Beafowl makes things complicated.
Unbanning a single part, while keeping the rest of the bey banned (as Fang would be ridiculous in this metagame), is really pushing it.

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NOW, The IMPORTANT part of this post: WHAT ABOUT CLEAR WHEELS!?!?!
*and other insignificant parts

The main reason I care is for the fact that Horogium and Pisces are the best CW’s for Screw (and make a noticeable difference), and without Horogium, it’s stuck with needing the somewhat rare Pisces to work properly.

Also, Kerbecs and Byxis (which I used in my Vulcan tests, though it’s probably negligible), would be banned, and Kerbecs is very useful, as some people won’t have Bull/Aquario now they aren’t "must buys", but will have Kerbecs.

Carrying on from what was said about W2D, while we're here, DS obviously doesn't deserve a ban (BASED SOLELY ON USEFULNESS), so might as well deal with that too, if we unban W2D.

Unbanning all CW’s, DS and W2D does make our banlist more complex, but saves judges from having to nitpick about players using banned CW’s, and looking out for W2D and DS.

I’ve got three options for summarising that possible list (Click to View)

Metal/4D Wheels, Tracks, and 4D Bottoms introduced during and after the Maximum Series, other than those in Killer Beafowl UW145EWD, and Screw Capricorne 90MF, are banned, everything else is legal",


Which doesn’t really make the “CW’s, DS and W2D unbanned” thing clear, but does specify which parts are banned and which aren’t.

OR

Banned: Everything Introduced from The Maximum Series Onwards, EXCEPTIONS: All Clear Wheels, Screw Capricorne 90MF, Killer Beafowl UW145EWD, DS and W2D.

OR

Banlist: Parts introduced in the Maximum Series and Beyblade 4D, EXCEPTIONS: All Clear Wheels, Screw, MF, UW145, DS, EWD, W2D.

Which is shorter, but slightly harder to explain to newbies, as it doesn’t refer to whole beys

We can't do a lone "list of banned parts" as new parts have to be banned by default (from this format only, obviously), and if testing shows they won't skew the metagame, then they can be introduced. We also can’t say “all Beyblades introduced in the maximum series onwards are banned”, as newbies may think either “If I customise it,(eg still use Basalt), it’s legal!” or “My opponent used basalt’s 145 or WD, or 130 from Fang Leone, or parts from RBV7 (like the blue perseus attack), THEY CHEATED!”

Which means we need to do a "Maximum On" list, with and "Exceptions" list.

Input, people?

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Why not make a Ban list like the following..

Metal Wheels
Clear Wheels
Tracks
Performance Tip

Or include a Limited List?
Meaning you can only use one of a certain part per deck?

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Because when new parts are made/released, a new rulebook would need to be made, and until then, the metagame could be dominated by those parts. Plus, that makes it a complicated list, I guess, although it could be done for clarity, with the added line (Plus Any New Parts released), it's long, and the "Plus new parts" neccessity means it's not really any more simple than the "Maximum Onwards Except" banlist.

The "limited" list is still a definite no-go. WAY too complex. Plus it imposes a "deck" thingo. That's going WAY beyond a new format. That kinda idea belongs in the "do we need a second format" thread, methinks. Don't mean to be rude, but yeah, that's not going to happen any time soon.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I understand what you mean,it was just that I was thinking that newbies aren't going to understand the "Max Series+New,banned" Since 145,WD,Killer,105 and a few common parts are among them. Then misunderstanding it and never using those parts. That's were the Banned Parts List would provide a clearer picture for them.

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That's why I said "parts INTRODUCED in the maximum and 4D series". That could be clarified as the committee seems fit, and I think it'd do (though, an up-to-date specific ban list could be provided at tourneys or kept in a thread here, I guess, maybe even linked in the rule book).

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Dude, I really think that Horogium, Pisces, Bull, Aquario etc, even make a difference. Yes, I know that weight distribution, exposure of MW, etc. is really important, but those CW have never made a BIG difference, that they be banned. Other than that, Kerbecs is a HUGE wheel, but still, its effect is not as dangerous that it be banned. Yes, I would also say that lets keep 4D and MFB 1 and 2 separate. Even though 4D CWs are not a threat, considering them 'unbanned' will just make the banlist too complicated.

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Not really, it's easier to say "No Clear Wheels Are Banned", and it means judges don't have to look out for such negligible, nitpicky things as 4D clear wheels, or deal with related complaints.
Kerbecs is slightly lighter than a Hasbro Aquario, and it's easier to leave it unbanned. We don't have enough 3-Sided CW's as it is, and an abundance of 3-sided MW's (by 3 sided, I mean like Rock or Counter, which cna be divided into three, even, balanced sections of two protrusions. Dividing in halves, however, leaves them lopsided, if you look at them).

misunderstood Janstarblast here, my bad, but it is a long paragraph about CW choice (Click to View)

And I've already done testing to show that using Cancer instead of Pisces on Screw has a huge negative effect on results, in the Screw Discussion thread. Though, I'm not entirely sure how I managed to get 70% with Screw Pisces, the testing is there, and my "observations" which I include with test results also support that. Read my posts there, it should explain WHY CW choice is critical for some wheels. It does't make THAT big a testable difference with stamina, but when the shape obscures the MW's main impact/smash points in an attack combo, logically, that'll severely dampen the impact.
Most obvious example is Vulcan. Aquila, and to a lesser extent, Gemios look like they expose those flat wings nicely. however, both jut in front of the "smash heads" on the "side walls" of vulcan, and if you look at any well-used vulcan wheel, the wings still have paint, those "smash heads" however, are a shiny silver from repeated heavy impacts. This, Horuseus and Byxis, the wheels that expose the most area before those "smash heads", and keep well away from them as to not interfere, are the best options.
For Screw, it's obscuring the slopes, notably that second slope. I've explained why I felt that has such a big impact in the Screw Discussion thread already, though, and to me, at least, it seems like a very sensible, logically sound conclusion.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Yes, I know that th!nk. All I am saying is, banning clear wheels, or keeping them unbanned will just not make a difference. I did say that weight distribution, MW exposure, etc is really important, but the Clear Wheels that excel in doing such tasks are just not 'overpowered' that they be banned. That's all.

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Team IB Revolutions

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Oh, wow, my apologies, totally misread that. And yeah, CW's generally can't be overpowered, at least while they stay plain as they are.
But yeah, leaving all CW's unbanned is an easier option, IMO. Interested in other peoples thoughts still, I am. :p

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Well, I think it would be better that we get this list done before BeyDays, because if it will be put in effect before such a major event, then it will become easier to make everyone follow the list, as this time, there are several countries that are hosting a tourney for the first time, especially the mecca of beyblade, Japan. So, it will be better if the banlist be ready before BeyDays, so that every country can follow it, and become aware of it.

I may be wrong, and I know this idea is not quite good, because if we ban some top tier parts, our next job would be finding some replacements for those. Without that, there will be no good combos in beydays, and it will become a bad event, as many bladers will be frustrated if they learn they can't use their powerful combos like Basalt, Hell, etc.

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I agree completely about a blanket "no clear wheels are banned" rule. They are, mostly negligible, except in rare cases where a specific one is needed (Screw, Midnight to a much lesser extent) .

Here is my proposed "ban list" of parts.

Metal Wheels;
Libra (Possible, see after the first wave of tournaments)
Basalt
Hell

Tracks;
BD145
230

That about sums up the over powered parts released since the Maximum series.

My only gripe with this whole situation is that Lightning L-Drago will be far more over powered than it has been recently. There are very few times that Lightning L-Drago 85RF/R2F/LRF will lose to any right spin RSF, RS, or CS combo.

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Evan, you forget that basalt checks a lot of new attack wheels, fang is ridiculous, and look at beat's results, ldd is pretty strong too, and without basalt it'd just smash everything out, as it's bloody heavy. It's not bad defensively, either. Big bang needs testing but I kinda suspect given the weight and size it'll find an overpowered use without basalt killing it. Plus, what if a new basalt-like wheel gets released, our whole metagame is horribly skewed til a new rulebook is released.

Sure, lightning is overpowered, but when the metagame was like that, it was still not that common. Also, if it is, we can reintroduce libra (or, leave it unbanned and see what happens, because we were already going to unban it at that point anyway). If we unban it to start, as a trial, it shouldn't be a big issue. If it overpowers the metagame, then we can quickly ban it (as it's "on trial")

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I agree completely about a blanket "no clear wheels are banned" rule. They are, mostly negligible, except in rare cases where a specific one is needed (Screw, Midnight to a much lesser extent) .

Here is my proposed "ban list" of parts.

Metal Wheels;
Libra (Possible, see after the first wave of tournaments)
Basalt
Hell

Tracks;
BD145
230

That about sums up the over powered parts released since the Maximum series.

My only gripe with this whole situation is that Lightning L-Drago will be far more over powered than it has been recently. There are very few times that Lightning L-Drago 85RF/R2F/LRF will lose to any right spin RSF, RS, or CS combo.

Whatever th!nk said, I'll like to add to it-

Dude, if you would notice, Lightning is not overpowered at all. There are still chances that it lose to those powerful Defense combos. My main point here, is- Even before Basalt was released, we did manage to defeat LLD, right? So, what's the big deal? The only 'good' defense wheel left, would be Earth (and Libra if unbanned). Yes, LLD 'kills' Earth based opponents, but I always thought that the Earth Bull Defense top tier, still had enough power to withstand the ferocity of LLD's attacks.

Also, do keep in mind- If LLD is proved to be an overpowered bey, we can not ban it. This is because, we will lose the most powerful LTAC wheel ever released. This will lead to imbalance, and I think it may also result in a complete wipe out of good LTAC beys. This is because, the next in list of most powerful attack wheels, are Gravity, Meteo(maybe) and Vulcan; all of which are better on higher tracks only(correct me if wrong). We all know that there is kinda a dominance of LTDCs now... So, higher attackers would be helpless against low defense types....

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Team IB Revolutions

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This is because, the next in list of most powerful attack wheels, are Gravity, Meteo(maybe) and Vulcan; all of which are better on higher tracks only(correct me if wrong).

you said correct me if i am wrong so...

vulcan is only good on low height, meteo needs more tests on that i think, gravity is good on all heights (except maybe 230), lightning is good on low to mid heights

i do not think lightning needs to be banned. IIRC, in attack vs attack gravity can beat it

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This is because, the next in list of most powerful attack wheels, are Gravity, Meteo(maybe) and Vulcan; all of which are better on higher tracks only(correct me if wrong).

you said correct me if i am wrong so...

vulcan is only good on low height, meteo needs more tests on that i think, gravity is good on all heights (except maybe 230), lightning is good on low to mid heights

i do not think lightning needs to be banned. IIRC, in attack vs attack gravity can beat it

Well, I was quite unsure about them, but I think that's what I heard of 'em before.....
Thanks for correcting me.

Referring to the bold text- See, now everyone who still doubt that Lightning must be banned, have to believe that Lightning is not overpowered.

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Team IB Revolutions

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But seriously, worst case we can ban lightning if it really dominates everything. I just don't think that'll happen. Personally, I'll probably be using Gravity Perseus (ATK) as my main wheel.

Anyway, I'd just like to get everyone's opinion on the blanket "No Bans on Clear Wheels" idea that I mentioned a few posts back. I think I covered everything relevant in that posts, if not on this page (Page 5).

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Well, discussion has kinda stalled here. Should we look towards getting some consensus, or more input from regular tourney holders/committee members etc?

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

In that case, I think its important for some people like Bluezee, Kei and Deikailo here.... There may be many more, but I know only these, who really excel in tourneys, or at least participate and organize millions of those...

About CWs, I think it really doesn't matter... I don't even know why people still argue about banning Lightning, Libra, etc.... On the other hand, the reason seems quite clear, the ban of Basalt. You see, no one really cared about Lightning coz Basalt is around. Because Basalt is being banned, everyone are like-
"OMG!!!! This is impossible! BAN LIGHTNING! BAN LIGHTNING!" One fine morning, everyone wake up to realize that Libra is now overpowered, so- "BAN LIBRA, BAN! BAN! BAN!". It really shows how every bey is interdependent.....
Its just like how people became lazy due to the invention of new gadgets....
When there were no automobiles, people used to walk a thousand miles.....
In the same way,
When there was no Basalt, bladers used to work hard to make new combos to defeat LLD, and.........they did succeed.......

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