World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade General

Beyblade Random Thoughts

Jun. 08, 2012  4:01 PM
 
I hope they make bit beasts XD lol.
Dought technology will come to that any time soon...
Jun. 08, 2012  4:12 PM
 
Speaking of Hell, I've been working on a combo utilizing the Wheel to beat 145-height based opponents and lower by default. What it does is loosen their Facebolts until they just explode or the face comes out during battle. I've been unsure as to whether or not the practice of this tactic would be considered legal, but since this whole discussion is going on, I thought I'd might as well bring it up. Hell Kerbecs 230__ with a tall Bottom (I've narrowed down the choices to EDS, CS, ES, HF/S, RS, and I think there's one more, but I can't think of it ATM) so that Hell can get over the CW and constantly batter the side of the Face till it loosens and flies out. It has to have relatively good Stamina to last long enough to do the job, but may not necessarily unscrew a Facebolt everytime as some Faces screw in tighter than others, so it's more effective against Metal Faces (at least mine, anyways).
Jun. 08, 2012  4:15 PM
 
You mean guy, exploding peoples Beyblades and stuff, aha. I kid.

But that is a pretty neat concept. IIRC Hell 230CS was a decent balance combo last time.
Jun. 08, 2012  4:17 PM
 
When a Beyblade comes apart in a Beybattle, the one who owns the shattered bey, automatically loses, and their opponent gains an automatic win, regardless of score. So if you're trying to knock out the others face, good job XD
Having your faces loose while in battle isn't so smart (even if they're MF's) they tend to break easily if not properly used, it's kinda risky, and usually it doesn't do anything positive.
Jun. 08, 2012  4:27 PM
 
I'd probably never use this competitvely unless I already knew my opponent's Face was rattly (is that a word?), but even then, there'd definitely be way better, reliable options. Just the concept of beating somebody with a combination that could actually disassemble the his or her Bey during battle was idea I though to be interesting, though devious.


... If I really wanted to screw up somebody's CW and Facebolt stickers, I'd troll them with this. ;/)
Jun. 08, 2012  4:41 PM
 
(Jun. 08, 2012  3:39 PM)Ingulit Wrote: On a side note, I think a separate format that has any wheel 40 grams or heavier banned would be fun (that way we wouldn't have Basalt or 4D dominance, but non-Synchrome wheels and newer, lighter wheels like Divine could still be used

I do not see the problem with Basalt since weight is pretty much all it has going for it. It is the wheels that are over 40 grams with no such balance issues that are the problem IMO (and maybe Diablo, I don't know).
This is why I have been pushing for a split between the 4D meta and the Fury meta, since it seems likely that Fury will have fairer weights.

@Angryface: that sounds awesome, do it!
Jun. 08, 2012  4:57 PM
 
I played around with hell and R145 a while back, but didn't think that much of it, to be honest.

Rai, re: Rubber tipped Engine Gears, well there was dragoon GT's but that was really slow, partly because the rubber was too hard, partly because the tip was too small, and partly because the rest of the CEW being metal acts like an anchor attached to the bey. Even without that, though, it would probably be uncontrollable, the main fault with engine gears for attack being they break flower patterns and so on. Not to mention the height and bulkiness.
Jun. 08, 2012  5:01 PM
 
Yeah. I'm sure they could incorporate smaller gears and such now (with a better build, Engine Gears broke so easily) and make sure that they ACTUALLY WORK! I knew about GT's, but the sheer bulkiness, hard rubber, ect (everything you listed lol) is just why it didn't work. Probably would be uncontrollable though.

I could scream "GO PEGASIS" and the gear would activate, and self KO itself. XD
Jun. 08, 2012  5:36 PM
 
I love the idea about attacking the face bolt! It certainly has merit; I was trying to test LTDC against Flash (I think my combo was MF-H Wing Kerbecs 85RDF), and Flash got a very clean hit on the face bolt and BAM, the bey flew apart! It actually broke part of my stadium, actually, so be careful with ideas like that x)

So, what you need to make sure of is that Hell tilts down and makes contact with the face bolt... MB jumps to mind as being good for spinning at really extreme angles, and TH170 would give you better options against really low opponents than 230 (I know LT_Cs aren't popular, but 85 is still a track!). Maybe (MF/-H) Hell Kerbecs TH170MB? It'd be janky as hell (pun intended), but might work, lol

And yeah, if this works, it's truly evil, haha


EDIT: I forgot to address the use of Hell vs. Flame on the "attack the track" combo: as sad as this is, while Hell might have more recoil and maybe less stamina (? I don't actually oknow) than Flame, the fact of the matter is that Hell is just a lot heavier, which is unfortunately really important. Even though the main attack type one needs to worry about KOs basically everything regardless of weight (Flash), the extra weight just helps in general for not getting pushed around by semi-aggro Defense types and lower-tier Attack types.

Spoiler (Click to View)
Jun. 08, 2012  5:48 PM
 
Nah, Hell has to be used with 230 otherwise it's just not tall enough to get over Aquario 145 and a tall Bottom. Anything lower than 230 just won't make Face contact on 145 height Tracks. It'd be better to be high as you can as you can always bank your shot to get a lower Track, whereas if you use a lower Track yourself, then you won't be able to get the opponents you would've been able to get with the higher Track. Hell + 230 + a tall Bottom is just barely able to get over Aquario, but it's definitely the best CW to protect your Bey from things like this.

I remember trying with TH170 first for the versatility of it, but 220 wasn't tall enough to get over MF-H Duo Aquario BD145CS when 230 was.
Jun. 08, 2012  6:07 PM
 
Might I suggest Horogium for your clear wheel? It should cause the bey to slowly tilt over the course of the battle, hopefully pushing down combos like the one you mentioned as it does so. This will help it maintain the banked angle when you need it and help off balance opponents as an alternate win condition.
Ingulit's post makes horogium sound perfect for this.
Jun. 08, 2012  6:13 PM
 
Horogium isn't a bad idea at all, actually.

That's a very valid point about 230 over 220, that makes sense. What tips were you thinking of using? If you're going to be banking it, I'd be worried about it falling over since it will be so top-heavy. D immediately comes to mind, but it's really short... MB is tall and would let you keep a banked angle, but doesn't do a good job of picking itself back up. How aggressive did you want this to be?
Jun. 08, 2012  6:18 PM
 
If MB works like B, I wouldn't be too worried about its lack of self righting ability. Burn Horogium 130B can go on spinning until the metal touches the ground if left to its own devices and very little I have can out stamina that. In a battle where it takes/makes repeated hits, they tend to help keep it upright.
All in all, balance shouldn't be too big of an issue if it works how I'd expect.
Jun. 08, 2012  6:24 PM
 
(Jun. 08, 2012  6:18 PM)Dracomageat Wrote: If MB works like B, I wouldn't be too worried about its lack of self righting ability. Burn Horogium 130B can go on spinning until the metal touches the ground if left to its own devices and very little I have can out stamina that. In a battle where it takes/makes repeated hits, they tend to help keep it upright.
All in all, balance shouldn't be too big of an issue if it works how I'd expect.

That's very true, certainly. I keep thinking about the times I've seen MF-H Duo ___ 230MB start spinning at extreme angles and eventually starts scraping the ground, and I can't help but worry Hell might not do as well in that situation. When Duo starts spinning like that, MB actually becomes more aggressive and starts spinning around the arena instead of in the center, so it stops making contact with opponents in the center which would help it right itself.

Granted, the point of this custom is early, extreme hits, so late game like this situation is less important than what happens at the start.

[joke]You could try LF[/joke]
Jun. 08, 2012  6:31 PM
 
I find the tornado stalling ability doesn't kick in nearly as much in the late game when spins is low as it does if it somehow becomes angled like that early on, atleast with B and WB (WB is more aggressive though so it requires lower spin to remain sane).
Jun. 08, 2012  7:04 PM
 
(Jun. 08, 2012  4:12 PM)ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Wrote: ... Hell Kerbecs 230__ with a tall Bottom (I've narrowed down the choices to EDS, CS, ES, HF/S, RS, and I think there's one more, but I can't think of it ATM)...

Those were the Bottoms I thought would be fit for this combo. No non-gimmicked Bottom could work as none of them are tall enough to aid in the Bey's height; it needs to be as tall as possible. If I had a MB, I'd test that too, but I don't. From the little bit of testing that I did a while back, CS worked pretty well as it had pretty good Stamina and enough movement to keep going back to the opposing Bey. MB may work if only to wobble down on the Face, but that's just about all this combo really does anyways, ha ha. I wanted to try ES, HF/S, and RS just for the extreme degrees that they could wobble, but MB might actually do that better. EDS can wobble some and still retain its Stamina pretty well, but I don't remember the results I got when I played around with it months ago. Obviously, there are a lot more downsides to this than up as it's destabilized pretty easily by lower Beys at 145 height with offensive CW's (e.g. Cancer/Gasher, Gil, Quetzalcoatl, etc.), but assuming that it works (and it only needs to once), life's good. Tongue_out

The idea about using Horogium as the CW is interesting, but wouldn't Nemesis probably do better according to you guys' logic? It is heavier.
Jun. 08, 2012  7:18 PM
 
I've never tested Nemesis but Horogium is prefferable to Gill on anything I own but Basalt and Gill mold Ray so I'm not sure. It depends just how off-balance Nemesis is. Test it if you have it.
Jun. 08, 2012  7:41 PM
 
Eh, well, I use Nemesis for Stamina, to be honest (braces for flames), so I probably shouldn't be the one to give an opinion on its imbalance since it'd probably be seen as biased info by those who despise all things asymmetrical. :v I'm pretty sure it was shot down for Stamina usage as soon as people found out that it had more weight focused to one side, but I need to continue my Stamina tests comparing it to Aquario before I come to a solid conclusion. (me rike nemucease)

I originally used Kerbecs because I wanted it to have evenly spread weight to give it better Stamina so that it could keep beating at the Facebolt, but I'll try both Horogium and Nemesis later after I finish some other tests. Wink
Jun. 08, 2012  7:45 PM
 
Doh, I can't believe I didn't see that, apologies!

I just tried MF Hell Kerbecs 230MB against a few of my beys, and some I got some interesting results:
  • MB isn't tall enough to get over other users of Kerbecs on a 145 height, as I noted when I put it up against MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS.
  • Against MF-F Duo Cancer AD145WD, it made PERFECT contact with the face bolt, working EXACTLY like it was designed to, but the MF-F just wouldn't budge.
  • To add to that point, I think you're only going to have the ability to unscrew full Metal Faces (MF or MF-H) because they're the only ones that would be loose enough for this to work. Regular faces and MF-F are too secure.
  • Strangely enough, Hell actually OSed Duo rather consistently (not that many KOs, surprisingly), despite being tossed into the air a few times by the slopes on Cancer.
  • For the hell of it I tried it against Phantom Hades 90MF and (unsurprisingly) it wasn't pretty, as no matter how hard I banked it, it just couldn't reach that far down without the wider parts of MB scraping the floor.

For the lulz, I tried MF Hell Horogium 230MS (I don't have Nemesis, though yes, it would probably be better for weight alone), and I found out a few things:
  • I was wrong about Hell not regaining balance; in fact, on MS, it had surprisingly great balance and managed to OS a number of things. However...
  • MS is still MS, and no amount of weight can make up for the fact that it has absolutely no friction with the stadium floor. As such, it self KOed far too often.
  • Horogium made a significant difference. With Kerbecs, Hell stayed mostly balanced and wouldn't tilt down onto the opposing bey's face bolt. With Horogium, it tilted and smashed the face bolt really consistently, though they still wouldn't budge.

I think HF/S is probably going to end up being your best bet for its height, as not much else is taller than MB (maybe EDS?) and you need to be able to get over opposing Aquarios and Kerbecs. Furthermore, as I already stated, this won't work unless they have some kind of full-metal Metal Face.
Jun. 08, 2012  8:26 PM
 
Something wierd jst happened when I was doing fun battles. It was Duo uranus 230 WD vs Flame byxis 230 WD and Flame byxis knocked Duo out a few times
Jun. 08, 2012  8:27 PM
 
No problem, ha ha. I originally used a MF on Hell, but later I realized that all the weight needed to be on the outside to really turn the bolt. My first thought was Phantom, but it wasn't raised high enough (Y U NO BE RIKE FRAME, FANTOM?lol) As of now, I've yet to try this against a Kerbecs custom, but I figured it would be pretty violent to Hell's underside should it ever come across one. xD I can't compare other Bottoms to MB since I don't have it, so I'll just take your word for it and assume that ES, a mint RS, and EDS (because they're all the same height when new) don't work as well because of their heights. I did like what CS would do, though; semi-aggressive movement with moderate Stamina. It was able to unscrew a few MF-H's, but I could never do it with a regular Facebolt. Plastic Faces just don't wanna move, only dent. :\ It's really unfortunate that this combo just isn't that effective in most circumstances, but it's definitely still fun to play around with. :]


EDIT: Thunder Dome: It may be that Byxis' WD is overly worn.
Jun. 08, 2012  8:40 PM
 
CH120 if still used and BD145 should be your easiest opponents from what I hear. You may even be able to unscrew a PF from a particularly loose CH120.
When I get my Hell, I will test this myself.
Jun. 09, 2012  5:05 AM
 
I figure if you had the Horogium/Tempo wheel with hole placed over the staircase, and the right angle for the sun to shine through (clear wheel, not metal) it'd work like a Sundial?

Probably doesn't work at all, I just wish it did if impossible.
Jun. 09, 2012  8:49 AM
 
My Flash has issues.

It can't KO Basalt BD145CS. And I'm superb at controlling attack types (No vanity intended). And I just got it. Anyone else have this problem?
Jun. 09, 2012  10:10 AM
 
Ingulit- th!nk did dismiss LF, but I am sure that he (and almost everyone else who has their own BB-10) would simply dismiss the idea of using MS too!
For even if it does find some use(which it certainly never will), people wouldn't dare to use it, haha!

Fantomu- Sad... Its quite sad to actually buy an Attack wheel of Flash's stature, keep waiting for it, and upon receiving it- Noticing that it has some problem... Unhappy
Probably your Flash arrived in an already worn state or something(?)
Its actually not possible, but just maybe....
But yeah, one can't deny the fact that its a sad story...

@Apply- Haha, that certainly would be a great thing if it worked! It would be nice to try it, but well, its one LENGTHY process!
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