World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade General

Beyblade Random Thoughts

Jun. 28, 2011  2:23 AM
 
(Jun. 28, 2011  1:11 AM)Omega12 Wrote: It would get mixed up with the light wheels.

... How? Light does not equal clay, heat, mad or wind lol
Jun. 28, 2011  2:48 AM
 
Well "Light Wheels" were a series of plastic wheels, Hasbro's Tornado series forced the metal wheel of the same name to be renamed- because there are "Tornado" series Beyblades..

But there are many synonymous words for "light". You'd have to be pretty slow to not come up with an alternative, but similar name.
Jun. 28, 2011  6:38 AM
 
I was just watching an old Atamaii video from the 2010 New York Toy Fair...
I saw a BeyLauncher L.
That means that Hasbro had plans to release the BeyLauncher L, but never got the chance...
URG I'M SO ANGRY!!! Supaburn
Jun. 28, 2011  7:23 AM
 
Mind posting the link?
Jun. 28, 2011  8:26 AM
 
Sorry for the late response, but in regards of Hell Kerbecs BD145 CS vs Hell Kerbecs BD145 WD, we shouldn't jump into conclusion that CS overtakes WD in that particular combo.

If you use 2 Hell wheels, there's bound to be insane KOs, the number of KOs is not conclusive enough, since they both suffer near the same amount of recoils. Best remedy to this is to just focus on the OS, since wall saves are almost pure luck.

For this particular combo, WD can outspin CS in most cases, with the exception of a few 'out of the norm' / outlier instances, perhaps due to irregular launches.
Jun. 28, 2011  9:33 AM
 
In a tournament situation you don't "just count OSs". You count KOs too. We test these combos to see which does better against each other, not just which one spins longer. I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you.

Also, wall saves aren't just "pure luck". Pure luck refers to something that rarely happens, wall saves aren't rare at all. The walls are a little bit smaller than the gaps, almost just as big. So about 50% (or slightly less) of KO attempts are fouled by the walls. Wall saves are far from "pure luck", they are a part of the game.
Jun. 28, 2011  9:43 AM
 
Well i think the CS variant is better against everything overall , but the WD variant is better against basic stamina combos like Burn/Earth AD145WD as it doesn't do to well against Basalt 230CS and all those things , wish i could test this but i have a sprained thumb so i cant test as much , but nothing will stop me from totally testing !
anyway back on the WD vs CS thing i prefer WD in a tournament situation CS is a better choice as it can hold its ground against Basalt BD145/230CS combos while WD struggles but IMO both should be top tier.

Here is something else i would like to post
Basalt Kerbecs TH170CS vs Beat Lynx GB145RF
Basalt wins 13
beat wins 7
Scythe Kerbecs (stamina) TH170CS vs Beat Lynx GB145RF
Scythe wins 13
Beat wins 7
1 draw

Scythe does well because the PC frame absorbs hits making it harder to smash , although if beat got a clean hit on scythe it was gone , so scythe is showing some potential Grin
Jun. 28, 2011  9:48 AM
 
Thanks for posting those results Rusty. Hmm, it seems that the free-spinning is actually quite useful. I'm really surprised, according to your tests it does as well as Basalt. Have you done an LLDBD145LRF tests with it? If not then don't worry about it, I wouldn't want you to further injure yourself.
Jun. 28, 2011  9:49 AM
 
Well, as I tried this last night, on Hell Kerbecs BD145, WD vs CS

CS = 11 wins (10 KOs, 1 OS)
WD = 9 wins (7 KOs, 2 OS)

I noticed that both beys were flying out left and right. Yes, the CS rubber tip gave it a slightly more traction, but negligible in terms of the recoil caused by the hell wheels. There were wall saves carnival. The ones that werent saved by the walls resulted in KOs. How are we supposed to 'control' this wall-save variable, especially in a tournament situation? It's almost impossible if I could say so, hence, the 'luck' factor comes in.

Now, I went on and disregarded the KOs for a full 20 OS result.

CS = 3 wins (3 OS)
WD = 17 wins (17 OS)

Now, it's quite a mind boggling difference for this particular combo in term of stamina. CS' stamina just won't perform as well as it normally is on 230.

Now, take these 2 results, and try to balance which is better? The negligible difference in KOs (which I feel is still somewhat related to luck), or the large difference in stamina performance.

In a tournament situation, when an opponent is using Hell Kerbecs BD145 WD, you still wouldn't use Hell Kerbecs BD145 CS against it, would you? The winning percentage is just not enticing enough. It's great if you get the KOs, but risking a self KO from recoil? In addition to higher percentage of being OS-ed.

PS: Slapping an MF-H on the CS combo makes it slightly better, as it reduces the self recoil. But, that is a whole different concept than a simple BD145 CS > BD145 WD.
Jun. 28, 2011  9:54 AM
 
Hero Hah , DW about it , i will take it like a man , and have the tests up soon although i do not own an LRF so i will use RF

Uwik Well in a tournament situation (i shouldn't be saying this to beyrank 16 should I) i would prefer CS because of how it does against 230 and if you are facing a burn or earth you can bank it and get some good KO's but using WD would be safer against those combos but it is to hard to tell what your up against so you should go for what is better overall which is CS IMO I preferred WD about 1 1/2 months ago but once i got to hell kerbecs i started to prefer CS Grin
Jun. 28, 2011  9:56 AM
 
Except, the WD combo doesn't get a chance to OS as it's too busy flying across the room. Thanks to cs, the cs version doesn't always require a wall save to win. Obviously it'll outspin cs, but it generally won't get the chance. Rusty also got identical results to mine when he tested the cs version with an mf-l.

It's obvious wd will outspin cs, but in a tourney situation, cs does better, as it's still good enough vs older stamina combo's to beat them too, and has a better chance against attack and basalt.
Jun. 28, 2011  10:02 AM
 
I personally feel that CS works wonders on metal wheels with narrow diameter, like Basalt.

On Hell (50mm?), however, it tends to hit the rubber part of the CS far too often. So, unless, Hell with CS is meant to be an attack combo served with a little stamina, it's not quite safe. It's a common knowledge that Hell does have a decent amount of recoil, which makes it a little ironic for the CS' stamina to come into play while using Hell. There's a plethora of much better combinations out there that are able to maximize the full potential of CS, namely Basalt-based.
Jun. 28, 2011  10:10 AM
 
I'm mot supposed to be using my phone here, but the main reason I use cs on basalt is because the rubber seems to help with the wobbling. I don't see what's so complicated about using it on a well balanced wheel kilter hell. I get very little aggro from a fresh cs, maybe yours is too aggro?
Jun. 28, 2011  10:14 AM
 
I have a few of CS. Couple are aggressive, most are normal, and only one is a sitting duck. But, when using rubber tips for attacks, I tend to bank hard, making it super aggressive. I guess it's embedded in my head, and becomes instinctive after a while.

So your suggestion would be just to straight shoot it?
Jun. 28, 2011  10:16 AM
 
(Jun. 28, 2011  9:49 AM)Uwik Wrote: Well, as I tried this last night, on Hell Kerbecs BD145, WD vs CS

CS = 11 wins (10 KOs, 1 OS)
WD = 9 wins (7 KOs, 2 OS)

I noticed that both beys were flying out left and right. Yes, the CS rubber tip gave it a slightly more traction, but negligible in terms of the recoil caused by the hell wheels. There were wall saves carnival. The ones that werent saved by the walls resulted in KOs. How are we supposed to 'control' this wall-save variable, especially in a tournament situation? It's almost impossible if I could say so, hence, the 'luck' factor comes in.

I agree with you, luck cannot be controlled. However, I still firmly believe that CSs increased traction resulted in it having 3 more KOs than WD.

Uwik Wrote:Now, I went on and disregarded the KOs for a full 20 OS result.

CS = 3 wins (3 OS)
WD = 17 wins (17 OS)

Now, it's quite a mind boggling difference for this particular combo in term of stamina. CS' stamina just won't perform as well as it normally is on 230.

Now, take these 2 results, and try to balance which is better? The negligible difference in KOs (which I feel is still somewhat related to luck), or the large difference in stamina performance.


I feel that the first set of testing is still much more accurate. Call it "wall saves carnival" as you wish. 3 extra KOs in a testing out of 20 is 15%, that is quite a number. KOs are a factor in this game, deal with it. How long did it take you before you finally got 20 OSs? I can assume that there were atleast 40 KOs before you finished. CS is a much more reliable option because it can beat many combos, WD is a pure stamina combo. This game isn't based on that, otherwise we'd be playing in Super Vortex Stadiums. KOs aren't "negligible".

Uwik Wrote:In a tournament situation, when an opponent is using Hell Kerbecs BD145 WD, you still wouldn't use Hell Kerbecs BD145 CS against it, would you? The winning percentage is just not enticing enough. It's great if you get the KOs, but risking a self KO from recoil? In addition to higher percentage of being OS-ed.

Hmm. Who says that in a tournament situation that you'll have the freedom to know what combo your oppenent is using? Regardless, if they pulled a Hell Kerbecs BD145WD then I would choose CS over that. Your own results prove that it's better (the first set, I feel that the second set is
bogus). You make it sound like the CS variant is the only one who risks knock out, the WD variant had a greater chance of KO. Risk of self-KO is less than chance of KOing them.

I'll run my own tests in the morning. If what you say is right than I will apologize, but currently I firmly stand for what I've said. Though my own experiences and informal tests I say CS is the better option.

(Jun. 28, 2011  9:54 AM)RustyXD Wrote: Hero Hah , DW about it , i will take it like a man , and have the tests up soon although i do not own an LRF so i will use RF
Hmm. Alright, if you insist. For me, the RF variant is good enough. I wouldn't post it in Bluezee's thread though.

RustyXD Wrote:Uwik Well in a tournament situation (i shouldn't be saying this to beyrank 16 should I)
Please. If you've noticed his BeyPoints it's all from a single tournament. I've got a 100% too, does that mean you have to bow your head for me? Hell no. It doesn't matter if he was rank 1, if he's incorrect then go ahead and tell him. Heck, Kei (who is rank 1) got quite the response in his "Final Counter" thread.
Jun. 28, 2011  10:25 AM
 
Hero: I understand. I was merely trying to discuss an opinion. You are correct that the OS result set is not to be taken into serious consideration. It was just to show that in terms of 'pure' stamina, WD is a little better on Hell BD145.

(Jun. 28, 2011  10:16 AM)Hero Wrote: You make it sound like the CS variant is the only one who risks knock out, the WD variant had a greater chance of KO. Risk of self-KO is less than chance of KOing them.

I would like to note that I never meant that CS variant is the only one who risks knock out. Both WD and CS are prone to KOs. Theoretically, WD SHOULD be more prone to KOs than CS. However, on Hell wheels, they are both susceptible equally.

Well, have fun. I'll be off in a bit
Jun. 28, 2011  10:30 AM
 
(Jun. 28, 2011  10:25 AM)Uwik Wrote: Hero: I understand. I was merely trying to discuss an opinion. You are correct that the OS result set is not to be taken into serious consideration. It was just to show that in terms of 'pure' stamina, WD is a little better on Hell BD145.

Oh. Why didn't you say so from the start? Sorry about that then. Yes, "pure stamina-wise" the WD variant would win. Once again though, this is on Hell Wheels. Pure stamina practically doesn't exist.

I hope there are no hard feelings between us.
Jun. 28, 2011  10:39 AM
 
okay just been reading the discussion, (MF-H) Hell Kerbecs BD145 CS is as what we say 'has more traction' to allow it to get the most KOs, but most use it straight shot...

the WD version you got mostly one method of shot, straight shot, to give it its maximum stamina, but CS your not only limited to straight shot, this is why the bey is versatile, as it can be used as a defense/stamina, at the same time you also can use it for its attack purposes.

If you had a MF-H on it reduces recoil, yes, so with a sliding shoot it also has more weight behind each hit, at the same time its got near enough constant rubber friction to the stadium, which should give it its aggro movement, there fore should have a better win rate over the WD variant overall than a straight shot.
Jun. 28, 2011  1:08 PM
 
(Jun. 28, 2011  10:39 AM)Callum6939 Wrote: the WD version you got mostly one method of shot, straight shot, to give it its maximum stamina, ...

with Hell Kerbecs BD145 WD, I usually use different type of shots depending on the opposing beys. And yes, it does go into the flower pattern with sliding shot, although nowhere near the shape I get with typical attack bottoms.


Hero Wrote:I hope there are no hard feelings between us.

Why would there be any hard feelings? We're just having a discussion. Hah Smile
Jun. 28, 2011  1:13 PM
 
Hero: Uwik's too cool to have hard feelings Tongue_out

Uwik: Yeah, straight shot for CS. While Hell's width/weight distribution does cause it to move a little, it's far less than a basalt combo does Tongue_out
Jun. 28, 2011  1:20 PM
 
(Jun. 28, 2011  1:13 PM)th!nk Wrote: Uwik: Yeah, straight shot for CS. While Hell's width/weight distribution does cause it to move a little, it's far less than a basalt combo does Tongue_out

hah, good to know. I will give it a go tonight. Maybe when CS is less aggressive, it wouldn't self recoil too much upon impact.
Jun. 28, 2011  1:41 PM
 
Yeah. I used to use it with MF-H though, it still OS'd every stamina combo under the sun, and was very hard to KO, even with top-tier attackers, but yeah Uncertain

Anyway, posted this in ask a question, get an answer, in relation to a discussion about vulcan that's going on over there. I know I'm out of line to say this, and I generally don't like causing drama and criticising our hard-working committee, but yeah, I'm sorry, I gotta say this, as it's been on my mind for months.

I Wrote:Honestly, the tier list is usually out of date, the amount of testing expected can't keep up with the new releases, especially when people aren't testing stuff to keep combo's to themselves for tourney use (which is understandable)... Personally, I dislike the way it is run with the amount of required testing, given things become common knowledge, and that it requires a huge discussion and everything to get a decision made, but it is not my choice how it's run.

Inb4 someone yells at me for saying this. I feel it needs to be said, while accuracy is obviously important, it a) never stopped us putting ray in, even though the tip of the beys it was released with made it useless (and IMO it was overrated anyway), and b) it's even less accurate than the odd error inclusion because it's constantly so out of date. Basically, in our insistence on "accuracy", we're trading off even more accuracy, and in my opinion that's ridiculous

Just an opinion though, so don't rage at meh Cute
Jun. 28, 2011  2:50 PM
 
(Jun. 28, 2011  1:41 PM)th!nk Wrote: Basically, in our insistence on "accuracy", we're trading off even more accuracy, and in my opinion that's ridiculous

Rushing into things would more then likely lead to more...inaccuracy...
Jun. 28, 2011  3:25 PM
 
That's exactly the opposite of what I explained...
As I said, you'd only get minor inaccuracies from moving too fast, and we still get those sometimes anyway, like with Ray. From being slow, our tier list is full of dated combo's that get 0% against most things being used by good tourney players. Vulcan is a major example.

GO back and read my post a little more carefully, maybe, it should cover everything?
Jun. 28, 2011  4:17 PM
 
(Jun. 28, 2011  3:25 PM)th!nk Wrote: That's exactly the opposite of what I explained...
As I said, you'd only get minor inaccuracies from moving too fast, and we still get those sometimes anyway, like with Ray. From being slow, our tier list is full of dated combo's that get 0% against most things being used by good tourney players. Vulcan is a major example.

GO back and read my post a little more carefully, maybe, it should cover everything?

So, moving faster will give minor inaccuracies. But, couldn't it lead to having more inaccuracies over all, even if they are minor?
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