They could have had their cake and ate it too instead of bypassing what makes sense. Nothing was preventing him from taking on and losing to Shu after being defeated by Valt. This season has sent such an unfortunate message. They've basically said that no matter the experience, skill and power you've amassed, it's nothing in the face of these new bladers. Sad.

You shouldn't project your feelings on the season and say its what the season is representing. Thats just what you feel. And why would he also lose to Valt as well? Just losing to Shu would do to trick, no need to do both.

That's the vibe I'm getting from it. They had a perfect need to do both, they get the loss to Shu they need and the logic is preserved. When you can take a route that doesn't involve plot armor and still accomplishes your goal, that's excellent. They could have had their cake and ate it too.

You shouldn't project your feelings on the season and say its what the season is representing. Thats just what you feel. And why would he also lose to Valt as well? Just losing to Shu would do to trick, no need to do both.

That's the vibe I'm getting from it. They had a perfect need to do both, they get the loss to Shu they need and the logic is preserved. When you can take a route that doesn't involve plot armor and still accomplishes your goal, that's excellent. They could have had their cake and ate it too.

But there's no need for 2 loses....one does the trick, why do you need 2?

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[font=system-ui, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Ubuntu, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif]hello stinky, are you going to the poop doctor? You are stinky. Eat a banana idiot[/font]

I'm not a fan of this sentance mate.

You shouldn't project your feelings on the season and say its what the season is representing. Thats just what you feel. And why would he also lose to Valt as well? Just losing to Shu would do to trick, no need to do both.

That's the vibe I'm getting from it. They had a perfect need to do both, they get the loss to Shu they need and the logic is preserved. When you can take a route that doesn't involve plot armor and still accomplishes your goal, that's excellent. They could have had their cake and ate it too.

They didn’t have a need to do both, it was completely optional and would have worked either way. Using plot armor as an implication of handicap is kinda wrong as plot armor is usually used to elevate characters who are intended to be superior in the first place. Despite this, I do personally think that Shu exclusively being the one to beat Lane is better than sharing that claim with Valt. If Valt beat Lane then his battle with Shu would have been pointless since he would have effectively failed in his hierarchy.

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Not bad eh?

That's the vibe I'm getting from it. They had a perfect need to do both, they get the loss to Shu they need and the logic is preserved. When you can take a route that doesn't involve plot armor and still accomplishes your goal, that's excellent. They could have had their cake and ate it too.

But there's no need for 2 loses....one does the trick, why do you need 2?

Yea lean losing twice is a bit underwhelming tbh imo they should include shu in the festival alongside with Ranjiro and make lean lose against shu in semi finals then make valt win the festival

That's the vibe I'm getting from it. They had a perfect need to do both, they get the loss to Shu they need and the logic is preserved. When you can take a route that doesn't involve plot armor and still accomplishes your goal, that's excellent. They could have had their cake and ate it too.

But there's no need for 2 loses....one does the trick, why do you need 2?

If you're trying to preserve the logic of the story, then both losses accomplish that. If that doesn't matter to a writer than of a course all caution can be thrown to the wind.

But there's no need for 2 loses....one does the trick, why do you need 2?

If you're trying to preserve the logic of the story, then both losses accomplish that. If that doesn't matter to a writer than of a course all caution can be thrown to the wind.

Logic still holds with losing to Shu and that being enough. You clearly don't realize the impact a loss to Shu would have compared to a loss to Valt.

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I'm not a fan of this sentance mate.

That's the vibe I'm getting from it. They had a perfect need to do both, they get the loss to Shu they need and the logic is preserved. When you can take a route that doesn't involve plot armor and still accomplishes your goal, that's excellent. They could have had their cake and ate it too.

They didn’t have a need to do both, it was completely optional and would have worked either way. Using plot armor as an implication of handicap is kinda wrong as plot armor is usually used to elevate characters who are intended to be superior in the first place. Despite this, I do personally think that Shu exclusively being the one to beat Lane is better than sharing that claim with Val. If Valt beat Lane then his battle with Shu would have been pointless since he had failed in his hierarchy.

Everything in a story is technically optional. Valt status as the world's strongest blader has already been established. For him to defeat Valt then lose to Shu messes that already established fact. As far as plot armor is concerned that's not the usual definition of plot armor that I've come to understand. I don't think that's the traditional definition.

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If you're trying to preserve the logic of the story, then both losses accomplish that. If that doesn't matter to a writer than of a course all caution can be thrown to the wind.

Logic still holds with losing to Shu and that being enough. You clearly don't realize the impact a loss to Shu would have compared to a loss to Valt.

They already established that Valt was the world's strongest blader, for him not to be able to defeat him but Shu could breaks with the logic they already established on that front.

They didn’t have a need to do both, it was completely optional and would have worked either way. Using plot armor as an implication of handicap is kinda wrong as plot armor is usually used to elevate characters who are intended to be superior in the first place. Despite this, I do personally think that Shu exclusively being the one to beat Lane is better than sharing that claim with Val. If Valt beat Lane then his battle with Shu would have been pointless since he had failed in his hierarchy.

Everything in a story is technically optional. Valt status as the world's strongest blader has already been established. For him to defeat Valt then lose to Shu messes that already established fact. As far as plot armor is concerned that's not the usual definition of plot armor that I've come to understand. I don't think that's the traditional definition.

Your definition of plot armor may not be the actual definition, just the one you use. The most widely agreed on definition of plot armor is when a character is elevated for sake of the plot. This could be that they don't die at certain moments, or get random boosts of power.

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I'll just say one thing to the people who say : " how can Valt loose but Shu win; the power scaling is off as it will mean Shu is stronger than Valt "...Yada -yada

This is simply not the case and I will like to bring an analogy of the Game of rock paper scissors; rock defeats scissors ( valt is stronger than shu ); paper defeats rock ( lean is stronger than Valt ); scissors defeats paper ( shu is stronger than lean).

This is quite often the case in real life; Some people have bad track records against certain opponents while still being able to defeat all the others. You may be the best batsman in the world but there exist matchups where the number 1 bowler is not able to get you out while the number 10 bowler manages to get you out consistently ( this is a cricket analogy; i do not know how many of you know of cricket though)

They didn’t have a need to do both, it was completely optional and would have worked either way. Using plot armor as an implication of handicap is kinda wrong as plot armor is usually used to elevate characters who are intended to be superior in the first place. Despite this, I do personally think that Shu exclusively being the one to beat Lane is better than sharing that claim with Val. If Valt beat Lane then his battle with Shu would have been pointless since he had failed in his hierarchy.

Everything in a story is technically optional. Valt status as the world's strongest blader has already been established. For him to defeat Valt then lose to Shu messes that already established fact. As far as plot armor is concerned that's not the usual definition of plot armor that I've come to understand. I don't think that's the traditional definition.

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Logic still holds with losing to Shu and that being enough. You clearly don't realize the impact a loss to Shu would have compared to a loss to Valt.

They already established that Valt was the world's strongest blader, for him not to be able to defeat him but Shu could breaks with the logic they already established on that front.

Shu has lots of skill and expertise. World Spryzen is the strongest bey in the World. World Spryzen was creating multiple, multiple months after the ranking system was creating, making it outdated at this ppoint.

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Everything in a story is technically optional. Valt status as the world's strongest blader has already been established. For him to defeat Valt then lose to Shu messes that already established fact. As far as plot armor is concerned that's not the usual definition of plot armor that I've come to understand. I don't think that's the traditional definition.

Your definition of plot armor may not be the actual definition, just the one you use. The most widely agreed on definition of plot armor is when a character is elevated for sake of the plot. This could be that they don't die at certain moments, or get random boosts of power.

In general the term refers to the shielding of a character from harm or consequence. Most resources list this or a similar definition.

They didn’t have a need to do both, it was completely optional and would have worked either way. Using plot armor as an implication of handicap is kinda wrong as plot armor is usually used to elevate characters who are intended to be superior in the first place. Despite this, I do personally think that Shu exclusively being the one to beat Lane is better than sharing that claim with Val. If Valt beat Lane then his battle with Shu would have been pointless since he had failed in his hierarchy.

Everything in a story is technically optional. Valt status as the world's strongest blader has already been established. For him to defeat Valt then lose to Shu messes that already established fact. As far as plot armor is concerned that's not the usual definition of plot armor that I've come to understand. I don't think that's the traditional definition.

Well you don’t have to actually be the strongest to be at the top of a hierarchy, as a number of other things such as social status, authority and relevance can come into play. As for what you said about plot armor, I know that isn’t the definition but you were kind of using plot armor as an excuse for Lanes wins but using plot armor as an excuse doesn’t make much sense seeing as Lane is implicitly meant to succeed in terms of the plot. Another thing is that, although Valt has been called the strongest this season, it doesn’t restrict Shu from surpassing him even if it’s only momentarily. Perhaps Shu has been doing intense training hence, why he didn’t participate in the festival or maybe he was influenced by external factors such as emotional intensity and turmoil seeing as he was facing his own former student.

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Not bad eh?

Your definition of plot armor may not be the actual definition, just the one you use. The most widely agreed on definition of plot armor is when a character is elevated for sake of the plot. This could be that they don't die at certain moments, or get random boosts of power.

In general the term refers to the shielding of a character from harm or consequence. Most resources list this or a similar definition.

Not just shielding a character from harm or consequence, elevating the character. Plot Armor isn't just making you not die. It can also give people power boosts in times of need. It solidifies that the character is very strong and or important.

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Everything in a story is technically optional. Valt status as the world's strongest blader has already been established. For him to defeat Valt then lose to Shu messes that already established fact. As far as plot armor is concerned that's not the usual definition of plot armor that I've come to understand. I don't think that's the traditional definition.

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They already established that Valt was the world's strongest blader, for him not to be able to defeat him but Shu could breaks with the logic they already established on that front.

Shu has lots of skill and expertise. World Spryzen is the strongest bey in the World. World Spryzen was creating multiple, multiple months after the ranking system was creating, making it outdated at this ppoint.

From what I understand, your referring to the manga. In the manga Lane never defeated Valt. In addition Valt is still considered the strongest blader even there. Going back to the anime, they've never stated that's the case.

Shu has lots of skill and expertise. World Spryzen is the strongest bey in the World. World Spryzen was creating multiple, multiple months after the ranking system was creating, making it outdated at this ppoint.

From what I understand, your referring to the manga. In the manga Lane never defeated Valt. In addition Valt is still considered the strongest blader even there. Going back to the anime, they've never stated that's the case.

First of all, The Legends Festival is a filler arc. Of course it wasn't in the manga. Second, its been stated in the manga word for word, World Spryzen is the strongest beyblade in the world (hence the prefix World). Little bits of info like this may be left out, however that doesn't mean they're invalid.

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Shu has lots of skill and expertise. World Spryzen is the strongest bey in the World. World Spryzen was creating multiple, multiple months after the ranking system was creating, making it outdated at this ppoint.

From what I understand, your referring to the manga. In the manga Lane never defeated Valt. In addition Valt is still considered the strongest blader even there. Going back to the anime, they've never stated that's the case.

they did; shu had not made world spriggan until after the legend festival to specifically counter lucifer. Do watch the subbed version of episode 33 and 27 again

From what I understand, your referring to the manga. In the manga Lane never defeated Valt. In addition Valt is still considered the strongest blader even there. Going back to the anime, they've never stated that's the case.

they did; shu had not made world spriggan until after the legend festival to specifically counter lucifer. Do watch the subbed version of episode 33 and 27 again

You don't need to watch the subbed version to understand how long its been form the start of Surge till the end of the festival I think. Almost a year at this point.

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Everything in a story is technically optional. Valt status as the world's strongest blader has already been established. For him to defeat Valt then lose to Shu messes that already established fact. As far as plot armor is concerned that's not the usual definition of plot armor that I've come to understand. I don't think that's the traditional definition.

Well you don’t have to actually be the strongest to be at the top of a hierarchy, as a number of other things such as social status, authority and relevance can come into play. As for what you said about plot armor, I know that isn’t the definition but you were kind of using plot armor as an excuse for Lanes wins but using plot armor as an excuse doesn’t make much sense seeing as Lane is implicitly meant to succeed in terms of the plot. Another thing is that, although Valt has been called the strongest this season, it doesn’t restrict Shu from surpassing him even if it’s only momentarily. Perhaps Shu has been doing intense training hence, why he didn’t participate in the festival or maybe he was influenced by external factors such as emotional intensity and turmoil seeing as he was facing his own former student.

There are ways to get Lane where he needed to go without breaking story logic. I think the manga did a better job of that actually. 

It's possible he was doing some kind of intense training, but we didn't see that which would really be beneficial if we're to believe that Shu surpassed Valt. That way we won't have to bridge that gap.

Well you don’t have to actually be the strongest to be at the top of a hierarchy, as a number of other things such as social status, authority and relevance can come into play. As for what you said about plot armor, I know that isn’t the definition but you were kind of using plot armor as an excuse for Lanes wins but using plot armor as an excuse doesn’t make much sense seeing as Lane is implicitly meant to succeed in terms of the plot. Another thing is that, although Valt has been called the strongest this season, it doesn’t restrict Shu from surpassing him even if it’s only momentarily. Perhaps Shu has been doing intense training hence, why he didn’t participate in the festival or maybe he was influenced by external factors such as emotional intensity and turmoil seeing as he was facing his own former student.

There are ways to get Lane where he needed to go without breaking story logic. I think the manga did a better job of that actually. 

It's possible he was doing some kind of intense training, but we didn't see that which would really be beneficial if we're to believe that Shu surpassed Valt. That way we won't have to bridge that gap.

The reason the manga never touched Valt vs Lain is becuase THATS FILLER. F I L L E R.

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I'll just say one thing to the people who say : " how can Valt loose but Shu win; the power scaling is off as it will mean Shu is stronger than Valt "...Yada -yada

This is simply not the case and I will like to bring an analogy of the Game of rock paper scissors; rock defeats scissors ( valt is stronger than shu ); paper defeats rock ( lean is stronger than Valt ); scissors defeats paper ( shu is stronger than lean).

This is quite often the case in real life;  Some people have bad track records against certain opponents while still being able to defeat all the others.  You may be the best batsman in the world but there exist matchups where the number 1 bowler is not able to get you out while the number 10 bowler manages to get you out consistently ( this is a cricket analogy; i do not know how many of you know of cricket though)

Please do read this Admiral W

Well you don’t have to actually be the strongest to be at the top of a hierarchy, as a number of other things such as social status, authority and relevance can come into play. As for what you said about plot armor, I know that isn’t the definition but you were kind of using plot armor as an excuse for Lanes wins but using plot armor as an excuse doesn’t make much sense seeing as Lane is implicitly meant to succeed in terms of the plot. Another thing is that, although Valt has been called the strongest this season, it doesn’t restrict Shu from surpassing him even if it’s only momentarily. Perhaps Shu has been doing intense training hence, why he didn’t participate in the festival or maybe he was influenced by external factors such as emotional intensity and turmoil seeing as he was facing his own former student.

There are ways to get Lane where he needed to go without breaking story logic. I think the manga did a better job of that actually. 

It's possible he was doing some kind of intense training, but we didn't see that which would really be beneficial if we're to believe that Shu surpassed Valt. That way we won't have to bridge that gap.

From what I understand, your referring to the manga. In the manga Lane never defeated Valt. In addition Valt is still considered the strongest blader even there. Going back to the anime, they've never stated that's the case.

First of all, The Legends Festival is a filler arc. Of course it wasn't in the manga. Second, its been stated in the manga word for word, World Spryzen is the strongest beyblade in the world (hence the prefix World). Little bits of info like this may be left out, however that doesn't mean they're invalid.

I think saying "world spriggan is the best beyblade in the world" is a bit of a stretch bc manga≠anime which usually if ppl say something like that in the anime they will get dumped

Well you don’t have to actually be the strongest to be at the top of a hierarchy, as a number of other things such as social status, authority and relevance can come into play. As for what you said about plot armor, I know that isn’t the definition but you were kind of using plot armor as an excuse for Lanes wins but using plot armor as an excuse doesn’t make much sense seeing as Lane is implicitly meant to succeed in terms of the plot. Another thing is that, although Valt has been called the strongest this season, it doesn’t restrict Shu from surpassing him even if it’s only momentarily. Perhaps Shu has been doing intense training hence, why he didn’t participate in the festival or maybe he was influenced by external factors such as emotional intensity and turmoil seeing as he was facing his own former student.

There are ways to get Lane where he needed to go without breaking story logic. I think the manga did a better job of that actually. 

It's possible he was doing some kind of intense training, but we didn't see that which would really be beneficial if we're to believe that Shu surpassed Valt. That way we won't have to bridge that gap.

Well there’s always the emotional influence which seemingly was there through Shu’s reminiscing of Lane as well as his exchange with Shu before their battle. And Valt being number one isn’t something that can’t be undone or outplayed, so it isn’t really logic breaking.

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Not bad eh?

Well you don’t have to actually be the strongest to be at the top of a hierarchy, as a number of other things such as social status, authority and relevance can come into play. As for what you said about plot armor, I know that isn’t the definition but you were kind of using plot armor as an excuse for Lanes wins but using plot armor as an excuse doesn’t make much sense seeing as Lane is implicitly meant to succeed in terms of the plot. Another thing is that, although Valt has been called the strongest this season, it doesn’t restrict Shu from surpassing him even if it’s only momentarily. Perhaps Shu has been doing intense training hence, why he didn’t participate in the festival or maybe he was influenced by external factors such as emotional intensity and turmoil seeing as he was facing his own former student.

There are ways to get Lane where he needed to go without breaking story logic. I think the manga did a better job of that actually. 

It's possible he was doing some kind of intense training, but we didn't see that which would really be beneficial if we're to believe that Shu surpassed Valt. That way we won't have to bridge that gap.

Also, I know you like Valt, like alot, but is it really that hardy to believe Shu can surpass Valt? Even being a rank below him in already outdated rankings, they're were basically the same skill level near the tail end of the festival. Now, its safe to say he's surpassed Valt with the whole, you know, defeating Lain thing. Also being smart enough to think of a strategy comes with skill, skill is important.

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There are ways to get Lane where he needed to go without breaking story logic. I think the manga did a better job of that actually. 

It's possible he was doing some kind of intense training, but we didn't see that which would really be beneficial if we're to believe that Shu surpassed Valt. That way we won't have to bridge that gap.

Well there’s always the emotional influence which seemingly was there through Shu’s reminiscing of Lane as well as his exchange with Shu before their battle. And Valt being number one isn’t something that can’t be undone or outplayed, so it isn’t really logic breaking.

It muddles things when it comes to the power scaling. Which didn't have to happen.

First of all, The Legends Festival is a filler arc. Of course it wasn't in the manga. Second, its been stated in the manga word for word, World Spryzen is the strongest beyblade in the world (hence the prefix World). Little bits of info like this may be left out, however that doesn't mean they're invalid.

I think saying "world spriggan is the best beyblade in the world" is a bit of a stretch bc manga≠anime which usually if ppl say something like that in the anime they will get dumped

The manga outright states that its the strongest. Not the all around best, just the strongest. Its a little piece of info that got left out, but that doesn't necessarily mean its invalid.

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