Beat??? Giraffe??? BD145????? WTF???
Beat Giraffe BD145MB
Well, Cye, I guess you're right. But it still doesn't mean Mid Height attackers can't defeat it. I'mhaving no doubts because this guys is testing. Like when I request, and he's online, he visits the thread and looks at my request. Then logs off. I visited his Profile Page once.
Anyways, maybe we could compare this to Basalt.
Anyways, maybe we could compare this to Basalt.
![[Image: olz5u.png]](https://gfxf.net/images/2012/08/05/olz5u.png)
(Jun. 06, 2011 11:54 AM)th!nk Wrote: TBH, just about every "MM/LT COUNTER I HAS IT" thread is the one where there are big doubts about the test results. I'm gonna try this tomorrow/tonight, because I have specific doubts about this one, having tried similar combo's with laughable results. Beat may have defensive capabilities in defense mode etc, but on BD145 and MB, in attack mode?
The thing with having so many of these threads is that not everyone can check the results, and those that can don't have the time/want to wear their parts/motivation (because testing stupid combo's takes time etc etc). I guess if people rock up to tourneys and lose with them, then they'll find out, but yeah, it's not good for the customisation forum. Considering LRF is quite a rare/expensive part and wears down quickly, it's very hard to test all of them without it actually costing us moneyThis mightn't be the place for this, but yeah.
Don't I agree with you!? Well, yeah! You are correct, every counter for MM and LT is just........ a 'not very funny' joke? These counters actually gives the feeling like you are trying to clean the Buckingham Palace with a wet paint brush. I also heard that MB has a lot of imbalance... Yes, it does work out well with the Basalt tank, but still. Um, using a Defense oriented tip for attack is just lame... Yes, there are a few exceptions, like CS you know...
@Cye- Well, that's true. Only Basalt looks good on this...
![[Image: janstarblastsignature.jpg]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-imUVk9PErhw/Tb5jNvGKumI/AAAAAAAAAFw/8iSsYhW7vEw/janstarblastsignature.jpg)
Beat Lynx BD145MB VS MF Lightning L-Drago CH120LRF (120)
Beat: 11 Wins
Lightning:10 Wins.
It was close because when Lightning attacked it got wedged between Beat and BD145 causing both beyblades to slow down.
Beat: 11 Wins
Lightning:10 Wins.
It was close because when Lightning attacked it got wedged between Beat and BD145 causing both beyblades to slow down.
(Jun. 06, 2011 12:09 AM)DragoonTalon Wrote: Try MF Lightning L Drago 85XF
In a similar vein but seemingly much more effective is MF-H LLD (Upper Mode) 100XF.
(Jun. 06, 2011 4:13 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: Um, using a Defense oriented tip for attack is just lame... Yes, there are a few exceptions, like CS you know.../implying that cs wasnt designed for attack/
CS wasn't designed for Defense, actually. It was supposed to be Attack/Stamina hybrid.
MF-H LLD 100XF? It will probably be hitting BD145 exclusively which won't help at all.
MF-H LLD 100XF? It will probably be hitting BD145 exclusively which won't help at all.
![[Image: uKF94LK.gif]](https://i.imgur.com/uKF94LK.gif)
He still hasn't told us what mode he is using. We can't test this without details.
off topic: I can now test since I just got my attack stadium.(BB-10)
off topic: I can now test since I just got my attack stadium.(BB-10)
(Jun. 06, 2011 10:08 PM)rock L-drago Wrote: He still hasn't told us what mode he is using. We can't test this without details.IIRC he said that he was using ATK Mode. And yes, go ahead and test against:
off topic: I can now test since I just got my attack stadium.(BB-10)
MF Lightning L Drago BD145LRF/RF
MF Lightning L Drago H145R2F
Both in upper, and look on the MFLLDBD145LRF Thread to see how it's supposed to be shot.
I think you need the Lynx CW for defense anyway..?
Pretty sure all cw's work in either mode. Played around with it on cs last night (turns out I forgot mah MB), it was actually decent, but not as good as the results suggest. Beats weight distribution makes it hard to outspin, but a decent launch from mf lightning ldrago bd145lrf can turn it into ko bait (though beat can force double ko's). I've always found mb easier to ko and os, but I'll test properly once I'm home. Might be okay in defence mode, but I'm unconvinced those results are accurate.
![[Image: UwZsp7A.png]](https://i.imgur.com/UwZsp7A.png)
Beat Lynx BD145MB VS MF Night Horogium 85WB
Beat: 16 Wins (14 OS, 2 KO)
Night: 5 Wins (OS)
Beat Lynx BD145MB VS MF Lightning L-Drago 85LRF
Beat: 15 Wins
Lightning: 6 Wins
Beat: 16 Wins (14 OS, 2 KO)
Night: 5 Wins (OS)
Beat Lynx BD145MB VS MF Lightning L-Drago 85LRF
Beat: 15 Wins
Lightning: 6 Wins
(Jun. 08, 2011 4:37 PM)Randomâ„¢ Wrote: Beat Lynx BD145MB VS MF Night Horogium 85WB
Beat: 16 Wins (14 OS, 2 KO)
Night: 5 Wins (OS)
Beat Lynx BD145MB VS MF Lightning L-Drago 85LRF
Beat: 15 Wins
Lightning: 6 Wins
Dude, I don't get it.. Why do you even test this against combos like those? Yes, LLD85LRF is awesome, still, its just OK, if you are not good at launching it... Use BD145, and launch it proper. If possible, we would like to see a video of this one...
Yeah, a video of Beat Lynx BD145MB Vs MF Lightning L Drago BD145LRF would be much appreciated.
I've had to postpone my testing because I'm quite ill at the moment. I'll try to at least play around tomorrow, if I'm well enough, but proper testing is gonna be a while.
I've had to postpone my testing because I'm quite ill at the moment. I'll try to at least play around tomorrow, if I'm well enough, but proper testing is gonna be a while.
Oof. Since no one else seems to be willing to do testing instead of just talking... here's my results:
My equipment/setup:
TT Attack Stadium
3 segment grips (black and white)
string launchers (white [L], red)
MF-H Lightning L-Drago BD145LRF vs. MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB
Lighting launched sliding shoot
MF-H Lightning L-Drago BD145LRF 8/20 (2 OS, 6 KO)
MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB 12/20 (11 OS, 1 KO)
4 ties (3 spin, 1 double KO)
Beat Giraffe wins 60%
This is a classic attack scenario for LLD, either it KO's the opposition or gets outspun. The 2 LLD wins by outspin were really the result of an "almost" KO that then sent Beat into a floor scrape. I think that the significant weight of the Beat combo (and a well-placed wall or two) helps it survive in this match-up.
MF-H Meteo L-Drago CH120XF (120) vs. MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB
Meteo launched at 20%
MF-H Meteo L-Drago CH120XF (120) 13/20 (9 OS, 4 KO)
MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB 7/20 (5 OS, 2 KO)
5 ties (3 spin, 2 double KO)
Beat Giraffe wins 35%
I love this meteo combo, and the time I've spent learning to shoot XF properly has been a real education! That being said, in the 5 outspins for Beat, Meteo didn't seem to get its inside bouncing rhythm established and died on the outside. Everytime it took the inside position well it won easily. No real competition here from Beat Giraffe I think.
MF Vulcan Horuseus 85R2F vs. MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB
Vulcan launched sliding shoot
MF Vulcan Horuseus 85R2F 6/20 (0 OS, 6 KO)
MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB 14/20 (12 OS, 2 KO)
2 ties (0 spin, 2 double KO)
Beat Giraffe wins 70%
Kind of a battle of old vs new in metal wheel, and like LLD above I think the increased weight of the beat combo makes the difference.
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145CS (Left, Counter) vs. MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB
Alternating launches
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145CS 18/20 (17 OS, 1 KO)
MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB 2/20 (0 OS, 2 KO)
4 ties (3 spin, 1 double KO)
Beat Giraffe wins 10%
Stamina battle L vs. R, and L takes the cake in this one. Probably the difference is in the metal wheel design that makes GP much more balanced.
All in all, mixed results on this one - but Beat Giraffe appears to be particularly vulnerable to popular left spin plastic bottom combos.
Thoughts? Other tests?
My equipment/setup:
TT Attack Stadium
3 segment grips (black and white)
string launchers (white [L], red)
MF-H Lightning L-Drago BD145LRF vs. MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB
Lighting launched sliding shoot
MF-H Lightning L-Drago BD145LRF 8/20 (2 OS, 6 KO)
MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB 12/20 (11 OS, 1 KO)
4 ties (3 spin, 1 double KO)
Beat Giraffe wins 60%
This is a classic attack scenario for LLD, either it KO's the opposition or gets outspun. The 2 LLD wins by outspin were really the result of an "almost" KO that then sent Beat into a floor scrape. I think that the significant weight of the Beat combo (and a well-placed wall or two) helps it survive in this match-up.
MF-H Meteo L-Drago CH120XF (120) vs. MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB
Meteo launched at 20%
MF-H Meteo L-Drago CH120XF (120) 13/20 (9 OS, 4 KO)
MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB 7/20 (5 OS, 2 KO)
5 ties (3 spin, 2 double KO)
Beat Giraffe wins 35%
I love this meteo combo, and the time I've spent learning to shoot XF properly has been a real education! That being said, in the 5 outspins for Beat, Meteo didn't seem to get its inside bouncing rhythm established and died on the outside. Everytime it took the inside position well it won easily. No real competition here from Beat Giraffe I think.
MF Vulcan Horuseus 85R2F vs. MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB
Vulcan launched sliding shoot
MF Vulcan Horuseus 85R2F 6/20 (0 OS, 6 KO)
MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB 14/20 (12 OS, 2 KO)
2 ties (0 spin, 2 double KO)
Beat Giraffe wins 70%
Kind of a battle of old vs new in metal wheel, and like LLD above I think the increased weight of the beat combo makes the difference.
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145CS (Left, Counter) vs. MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB
Alternating launches
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145CS 18/20 (17 OS, 1 KO)
MF-H Beat Giraffe BD145MB 2/20 (0 OS, 2 KO)
4 ties (3 spin, 1 double KO)
Beat Giraffe wins 10%
Stamina battle L vs. R, and L takes the cake in this one. Probably the difference is in the metal wheel design that makes GP much more balanced.
All in all, mixed results on this one - but Beat Giraffe appears to be particularly vulnerable to popular left spin plastic bottom combos.
Thoughts? Other tests?
Wow, so, I only just converted the original testing winrates to %. I must apologise (though this should be included in proper results writeups). 57% against MF LLD BD145LRF is understandable, though I suspect someone more used to that combo might do better. Still, sorry for being so sceptical, Shadow Lynx.
Arupaeo, excellent testing. May I ask why you used MF-H on LLD BD145LRF and MLD CH120XF? Both should be used with a plain Metal Face?
Also, for the vulcan round, Vulcan did poorly as BD145 spoils it's hits and ability to connect properly, as usual.
Arupaeo, excellent testing. May I ask why you used MF-H on LLD BD145LRF and MLD CH120XF? Both should be used with a plain Metal Face?
Also, for the vulcan round, Vulcan did poorly as BD145 spoils it's hits and ability to connect properly, as usual.
(Jun. 09, 2011 5:00 PM)th!nk Wrote: Arupaeo, excellent testing. May I ask why you used MF-H on LLD BD145LRF and MLD CH120XF? Both should be used with a plain Metal Face?
Also, for the vulcan round, Vulcan did poorly as BD145 spoils it's hits and ability to connect properly, as usual.
Thanks th!nk. I will be happy to retest using a standard metal face to conform with the standard configuration for the combos.
The reason I went with MF-H is because I believe that (generally) more mass is better for both attack and defense beyblades from an impact momentum standpoint. I'm a pretty strong guy and have no problem cranking up the RPMs - and while there is some advantage to having more weight distributed on the edge of a bey rather than in the center, this is a comparison that speaks more strongly to design issues between metal wheels of approximately the same weight rather than as an analysis of whether more or less weight should be added to a system in total.
In other words, I think that the theoretical advantage gained in KO potential when the beyblades hit from the additional 0.63g in weight (the difference between the average weights of MF-H and MF) exceeds the theoretical disadvantage in "stadium movement" or RPM.
0.63g is not a lot of weight, especially on combos that are clocking in at 50 or 60g (MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230 CS weighs 61.04g for example). MF MLD CH120XF weighs 41.41g, and MF-H MLD CH120XF weighs 42.04g - a difference of 1.52%. For LLD the difference is 47.36 to 47.99g or 1.33%.
Beliefs aside, "Testing, Testing, Testing" should be the mantra that guides the resolution of differences of opinion - which is why I opened this post with my willingness to test again using MF instead of MF-H. I should be able to get those results up later.
Also, I would be interested in any specific testing that has already been done to explore the MF vs MF-H question for these combos or others.
And thanks for the further insight on Vulcan vs BD!
It would be awesome if you could re-test with MF instead of MF-H, for comparisons sake, though I'm unsure if it will make a testable difference, as in, the effects of a variable that small would be masked by all of the uncontrollable variables involved.
To be honest, I still feel that the ever so slight drop in movement speed is not worthwhile in combo's that don't require the extra weight. MLD CH120XF relies a lot on it's speed and stamina, which is adversely affected by an MFH. It doesn't aim to KO very much, but those things it does, it manages fine against with an MF. As such, I definitely think just using an MF is the better option in that case.
As for LLD BD145LRF, I don't feel that it yet requires that increase in weight, it is heavy enough with a regular MF, and there is little point sacrificing speed for more weight.
For sure, I believe that people are too afraid of using MF-H's on attack types, and it may become necessary on these combo's in future, but yeah, right now, I don't think so.
I've discussed this a bit in the Screw Testing thread, it might be worth taking a look at that, for my thoughts on the topic of using Metal Faces altogether. (Basically, it's all about balancing recoil, weight and speed)
Anyway, yeah, re-test with MF instead of MF-H. I best stop going off-topic with this discussion
To be honest, I still feel that the ever so slight drop in movement speed is not worthwhile in combo's that don't require the extra weight. MLD CH120XF relies a lot on it's speed and stamina, which is adversely affected by an MFH. It doesn't aim to KO very much, but those things it does, it manages fine against with an MF. As such, I definitely think just using an MF is the better option in that case.
As for LLD BD145LRF, I don't feel that it yet requires that increase in weight, it is heavy enough with a regular MF, and there is little point sacrificing speed for more weight.
For sure, I believe that people are too afraid of using MF-H's on attack types, and it may become necessary on these combo's in future, but yeah, right now, I don't think so.
I've discussed this a bit in the Screw Testing thread, it might be worth taking a look at that, for my thoughts on the topic of using Metal Faces altogether. (Basically, it's all about balancing recoil, weight and speed)
Anyway, yeah, re-test with MF instead of MF-H. I best stop going off-topic with this discussion
MF-H Beat Lynx BD145MB VS MF Meteo L-Drago BD145WF (Launched 50%)
Beat: 10 Wins
Meteo: 10 Wins
1 Draw.
MF Meteo L-Drago BD145WF is my new combo can somebody please start a thread or do some testing. PLEASE!
Beat: 10 Wins
Meteo: 10 Wins
1 Draw.
MF Meteo L-Drago BD145WF is my new combo can somebody please start a thread or do some testing. PLEASE!
Beat Lynx BD145MB VS Gravity Perseus Attack Ver. WA130RF (Right Spin, Counter)
Beat: 14 Wins
Gravity: 7 Wins
Beat: 14 Wins
Gravity: 7 Wins
Gravity is much better in left spin...
Eh, actually, I must say i thought that too, but Gravity is currently somewhat more useful in right spin, at least in that combo.
I was just playing around with MF Gravity Perseus (ATK) S130RF, against MFH Basalt Aquario BD145CS. In right spin, it managed to hit basalt around and score a KO or two, whereas in left spin, it did less, and generally ended up self-KOing/being KO'd, after hitting basalt.
I was just playing around with MF Gravity Perseus (ATK) S130RF, against MFH Basalt Aquario BD145CS. In right spin, it managed to hit basalt around and score a KO or two, whereas in left spin, it did less, and generally ended up self-KOing/being KO'd, after hitting basalt.
I thought that was because CS generally does better against left spin opponents
Shadow lynx why did you stop using giraffe?
Shadow lynx why did you stop using giraffe?
It broke against my Vulcan combo. I said it earlier in the thread
(Jun. 11, 2011 1:04 PM)RustyXD Wrote: I thought that was because CS generally does better against left spin opponents
Shadow lynx why did you stop using giraffe?
Nah, CS is said to do better than RS/RSF against left spin opponents, it's not affected by spin direction itself.