(May. 21, 2016 2:18 PM)LMAO Wrote: Just thought I would give my 2cents on this whole thing for banning Odin for Beydays. First off, thanks Brad and Hato for the tests, really gave a new perspective to my outlook on V2. However, just because there is one counter (not complete counter) to Odin Heavy Defense, doesn't mean Odin should be unbanned. V2 is an extremely unreliable part nonetheless, I've seen a few broken ones already in the short few months it's been out. It's not even getting reliable numbers against Odin, something like 80-20 would feel a lot more comfortable. Remember that Odin completely destroys everything else, so unbanning it wouldn't be very wise, especially since there would be ONE counter to it, and that counter being pretty unreliable. Plus, if Odin is unbanned, we're just going to see heavy use of Odin Heavy Revolve/Defense being used against any attack combination, and completely destroying it.
I wouldn't say there is only one counter to Odin; Valkyrie can do well against it too. In finals of Beyblade Shogatsu, I defeated your OHD with VHX, for example.
That said, while I am leaning towards changing the ruleset, I am not leaning towards unbanning Odin. Unbanning it would essentially be inviting a more powerful version of Neptune–a Stamina/Defense-hybrid–back into the game.
We also would have to consider what other combinations would be made possible again with the return of Odin, like Odin on Accel and Xtreme. Both would have a place in a Burst Format that awards 2 Points for KOs and Burst Finishes.
If we went ahead with the change of rules, the metagame as it currently stands right now would be in a good place because Deathscyther–which is prone to bursting–is still the best Stamina Layer. What this means is that players will be forced into making a tough decision: do I choose the "easy" to use Deathscyther combo and accept the risks associated with using it in a format that awards 2-Points for KOs/Burst Finishes, or do I choose something else? If Odin was around, it would be an easier decision to make because Odin has a similar amount of Stamina, is a bit less prone to bursting, and has higher defensive power. People will likely turn to Neptune for similar reasons if Odin remains banned, but I would say that generally speaking, it cannot defeat Deathscyther. So, things should be balanced.
(May. 21, 2016 4:36 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: We're not going to unban Odin for BeyDays; however, adopting the 2-points system for Beyblade North is an option. How would everyone feel about that?
+1 for this
(May. 21, 2016 5:16 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: Yeah, I don't think the situation would be that different sans Revolve — everyone would just be using Gyro instead.
That's debatable. Gyro and Defense would see equal use in my opinion. They're basically equal in terms of Stamina in my experience. Even if everyone would still be using Stamina, allowing players to have two viable choices instead of one for the same purpose is better than one. It's like during MFB when RF and R2F were technically similar (though there was more observable differences), but having the choice available to pick between which one you felt most comfortable with was good because players felt like the game was more diverse.
Even though technically there is little difference between a format dominated by one Driver (Revolve) or two (Defense and Gyro), I think psychologically the latter would be a more pleasant situation for players.
1234beyblade Wrote:This would also add quite a bit of luck, attack vs attack is very very unpredictable and if you're the one getting unlucky then you're just screwed
But would this really be any different than Attack vs. Attack in the current metagame where everything is worth one point?
LMAO Wrote:Even if we did use the points system as the new ruleset, something like Neptune Heavy Revolve would still very easily be able to beat Valkyrie and Xcalibur attack combos.
They certainly could still win, but would they win as many times as they do now when everything is worth 1 Point? They wouldn't. That's what we're trying to say here.
Nocto Wrote:I don't think it's necessary to prove that Attack types are harder to use or that knock outs are harder to achieve for most people. Beyblade has a long history to make its case and given that history, scoring knock outs for two points seems like a terrific idea. However, considering the results in this thread, including Brad and Hato's most recent tests, burst finishes, to me, seem too frequent or fickle to truly be worth a significant advantage in scoring, especially since it doesn't seem to be tied to any specific type.
This is something worth considering too, in my opinion. Maybe the only change is to make KOs worth 2 Points instead of KOs and Burst Finishes.
That said, I also think there is immense value in actually trying the rules as they are being proposed in a real competitive tournament. That data will be arguably more valuable than any testing or discussion we can do. If after such a test we find that the idea of only giving KOs 2 Points would be better, or if switching back to the old rules would be better, then we can certainly do it and will have concrete data behind our decision to do so.
1234beyblade Wrote:Wait wasn't the competitive scene literally VHG, DHG, WHG not so long ago... Sure defense also competed... but it's still the same thing of mostly all combos being stationary...
Pretty sure Kei stumbled them all when he was winning with OHD (or some odin combo)
Exactly. The point of the new rule change would be to encourage people to move away from stationary combos by incentivizing the use of Attack types. Nobody is saying stationary combos won't still be used, but that there will be a greater incentive to use Attack types. In my opinion, this is the only way the metagame will ever see a rise in the use of Attack types. There always has and will be a risk in using them, so if we are to encourage competitive players to consider them more seriously or frequently, using them has to afford them something valuable: 2 Points instead of 1.
Haha, that was only in one battle at the WBOxWARIBEY event when I beat someone's DHD with OHG. In general, I would say I lost to their DHDs with Odin.